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Like New Englanders, Arizonans aren't as friendly and gregarious around strangers as Texans are, and they will generally avoid eye contact with strangers in most situations. However, once you scratch the surface, most Arizonans are wonderful people who make great friends. As an aside, Tucsonans tend to be a little friendlier than Phoenicians, at least in my experience.
Arizonans, save those living in and around Scottsdale and Paradise Valley, tend to place less emphasis on their appearance unlike those in the trendy, popular Dallas neighborhoods and suburbs. Appearances seem to matter much more in the major metropolitan areas of Texas than in Phoenix and especially Tucson. Furthermore, Arizonans are not nearly as materialistic and status-conscious as Texans. Texans, especially those living in and around Dallas, tend to be much more obsessed with status and, in turn, are more concerned with status symbols such as homes, neighborhoods, cars/trucks, clothing, and so forth. However, most status symbols in Texas are material things. Outside of Greater Boston and Fairfield County, most New Englanders are not that materialistic and status-conscious. However, even in those aforementioned status-conscious areas, the emphasis is more so placed on what college or university you attended and/or what you do for a living (i.e., what firm you work for, your position at that firm, etc.) vs. whether or not you live in a 5,000 square foot home, drive a $75,000 Escalade, and/or wear a $10,000 Rolex. Overall, Texans are way more pretentious than most New Englanders and Westerners with the exception of Southern Californians.
Arizonans are much less noisy than Texans. People around here could care less if you're married or single, educated or uneducated, religious or irreligious, gay or straight, a homeowner or renter, and so forth. When conversing with Arizonans, these topics hardly ever come up within the first five or ten minutes of conversation because Arizonans, like New Englanders, shy away from intrusive personal questions because they're impolite, especially if posed to a person you've just met. That philosophy goes hand-in-hand with the let-and-let-live mentality that prevails here in Arizona and in most of New England. Moreover, the listed personal aspects/characteristics are by no means pretenses for friendships and/or romantic relationships among people out here because, again, Arizona, like the rest of the West, is a live-and-let-live place where people tend to "discover themselves" whereas transplants to Texas and, of course, natives seem to conform and "join the crowd," so to speak. Texas bills itself as a live-and-let-live place, but it's not really all that different from the rest of the South: you're pretty much an outcast if you deviate from the norm.
Now, let's talk about religion. Texans are a very religious group of people because, at the end of the day, Texans are Southerners. If you're not Christian and church-going, it's going to be much more difficult for you to navigate socially in Texas, especially if you're married with children and must resort to living in the suburbs, than in Arizona. Actually, this is a non-issue in Arizona, as it is in New England. Evangelicalism is frowned upon in the Valley in the same regard it’s frowned upon in New England. Phoenix may be conservative, but it ain't no Bible Belt town! OTOH, Dallas is practically the capital of the Bible Belt. If you’re coming from New England, you’ll feel as though there’s a church on every corner in Dallas, which isn’t that much of a stretch of the truth. Christianity and religious undertones are much more pervasive in Dallas than in Phoenix. Religious-themed billboards, Bible verses, and mega-churches are all over the place in North Texas. For someone born and raised in New England, Dallas is going to be much more overwhelming than Phoenix in this respect, regardless of whether or not you and your family are Christian, because that's neither the case in New England nor the West. Furthermore, like New Englanders, Westerners view religion as a private and personal matter; therefore, God and religion are almost never topics of conversation. Also, the separation of church and state is much more distinct in Arizona and the West, like it is in New England, than in Texas and the South. More importantly, there's no "good ol' boy" system of politics in the West.
Because people in Texas tend to be more religious, they also tend to be more socially-conservative. Even if you’re a social moderate who leans to the right like myself, Texas is going to be a much more overbearing environment for you because you're not used to in-your-face, extreme right-wing social conservatism. Most Arizonans are socially-liberal or moderate, fiscally-conservative folks who vote with their wallets and pocketbooks. More importantly, most people in Arizona shy away from discussing politics because it's simply an impolite topic of conversation. New Englanders do the same. Most Texans, by comparison, are socially-conservative and very vocal about their beliefs as well. That would be overwhelming to even a socially-conservative New Englander because it's something they're not accustomed to. Moreover, New Englanders are not used to people who wear their political and religious beliefs on their sleeves because your average New Englander is not like that at all. That's yet another reason why a New Englander would feel more at home in Arizona than in Texas because Arizonans don't do that either.
Overall, Arizona, like California, is overwhelmingly more welcoming to outsiders than Texas, especially if you're originally from the Northeast or Upper Midwest. As an aside, you'll never hear the term "Yankee" in Arizona outside of a history lecture unless you're referring to the baseball team. Most people who've lived out West for their entire lives wouldn't really understand, but that was the icing on the cake for me. YMMV.
You keep digging yourself in a hole. You generalizations are hilarious. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I don't think you've ever been to Texas and I'm starting to doubt whether or not you even live in Arizona.
Having lived in both cities, I would suggest Dallas. I feel Phoenix has greater physical beauty and outdoor activities within close proximity to the city. However, because of the heat, taking advantage of those opportunities is difficult 6 months of the year.
At least with Dallas the heat is only unbearable three months of the year, and then only in he afternoons.
Phoenix is "newer" than DFW and thus housing stock and roads with be up to date. Downside is the sense of community is not as developed in PHX as DFW.
Like New Englanders, Arizonans aren't as friendly and gregarious around strangers as Texans are, and they will generally avoid eye contact with strangers in most situations. However, once you scratch the surface, most Arizonans are wonderful people who make great friends. As an aside, Tucsonans tend to be a little friendlier than Phoenicians, at least in my experience.
Arizonans, save those living in and around Scottsdale and Paradise Valley, tend to place less emphasis on their appearance unlike those in the trendy, popular Dallas neighborhoods and suburbs. Appearances seem to matter much more in the major metropolitan areas of Texas than in Phoenix and especially Tucson. Furthermore, Arizonans are not nearly as materialistic and status-conscious as Texans. Texans, especially those living in and around Dallas, tend to be much more obsessed with status and, in turn, are more concerned with status symbols such as homes, neighborhoods, cars/trucks, clothing, and so forth. However, most status symbols in Texas are material things. Outside of Greater Boston and Fairfield County, most New Englanders are not that materialistic and status-conscious. However, even in those aforementioned status-conscious areas, the emphasis is more so placed on what college or university you attended and/or what you do for a living (i.e., what firm you work for, your position at that firm, etc.) vs. whether or not you live in a 5,000 square foot home, drive a $75,000 Escalade, and/or wear a $10,000 Rolex. Overall, Texans are way more pretentious than most New Englanders and Westerners with the exception of Southern Californians.
Arizonans are much less noisy than Texans. People around here could care less if you're married or single, educated or uneducated, religious or irreligious, gay or straight, a homeowner or renter, and so forth. When conversing with Arizonans, these topics hardly ever come up within the first five or ten minutes of conversation because Arizonans, like New Englanders, shy away from intrusive personal questions because they're impolite, especially if posed to a person you've just met. That philosophy goes hand-in-hand with the let-and-let-live mentality that prevails here in Arizona and in most of New England. Moreover, the listed personal aspects/characteristics are by no means pretenses for friendships and/or romantic relationships among people out here because, again, Arizona, like the rest of the West, is a live-and-let-live place where people tend to "discover themselves" whereas transplants to Texas and, of course, natives seem to conform and "join the crowd," so to speak. Texas bills itself as a live-and-let-live place, but it's not really all that different from the rest of the South: you're pretty much an outcast if you deviate from the norm.
Now, let's talk about religion. Texans are a very religious group of people because, at the end of the day, Texans are Southerners. If you're not Christian and church-going, it's going to be much more difficult for you to navigate socially in Texas, especially if you're married with children and must resort to living in the suburbs, than in Arizona. Actually, this is a non-issue in Arizona, as it is in New England. Evangelicalism is frowned upon in the Valley in the same regard it’s frowned upon in New England. Phoenix may be conservative, but it ain't no Bible Belt town! OTOH, Dallas is practically the capital of the Bible Belt. If you’re coming from New England, you’ll feel as though there’s a church on every corner in Dallas, which isn’t that much of a stretch of the truth. Christianity and religious undertones are much more pervasive in Dallas than in Phoenix. Religious-themed billboards, Bible verses, and mega-churches are all over the place in North Texas. For someone born and raised in New England, Dallas is going to be much more overwhelming than Phoenix in this respect, regardless of whether or not you and your family are Christian, because that's neither the case in New England nor the West. Furthermore, like New Englanders, Westerners view religion as a private and personal matter; therefore, God and religion are almost never topics of conversation. Also, the separation of church and state is much more distinct in Arizona and the West, like it is in New England, than in Texas and the South. More importantly, there's no "good ol' boy" system of politics in the West.
Because people in Texas tend to be more religious, they also tend to be more socially-conservative. Even if you’re a social moderate who leans to the right like myself, Texas is going to be a much more overbearing environment for you because you're not used to in-your-face, extreme right-wing social conservatism. Most Arizonans are socially-liberal or moderate, fiscally-conservative folks who vote with their wallets and pocketbooks. More importantly, most people in Arizona shy away from discussing politics because it's simply an impolite topic of conversation. New Englanders do the same. Most Texans, by comparison, are socially-conservative and very vocal about their beliefs as well. That would be overwhelming to even a socially-conservative New Englander because it's something they're not accustomed to. Moreover, New Englanders are not used to people who wear their political and religious beliefs on their sleeves because your average New Englander is not like that at all. That's yet another reason why a New Englander would feel more at home in Arizona than in Texas because Arizonans don't do that either.
Overall, Arizona, like California, is overwhelmingly more welcoming to outsiders than Texas, especially if you're originally from the Northeast or Upper Midwest. As an aside, you'll never hear the term "Yankee" in Arizona outside of a history lecture unless you're referring to the baseball team. Most people who've lived out West for their entire lives wouldn't really understand, but that was the icing on the cake for me. YMMV.
I do not know about New England, however your comparisons of Dallas/ DFW and Phoenix are dead on.
Dallas is not the bible belt capital. If you are from the bible belt like myself, you'd find this statement utterly absurd. There is a religious presence in Dallas, but not like the deep south. It is just enough that if you are an atheist, it could have an effect on you job wise and socially.
Weather - Phoenix may get hotter numbers wise, but Dallas averages triple digit temps in August, and hovers at triple digits in July and June. Although this year, our summer has been cooler than summers in the past. Howver, August is the hottest month in Dallas so we have plenty of summer and hot left to make up for the low 90's we got to see in June and July. Having lived in southern Arizona and west Texas, I'd take the desert heat over Dallas heat. Dallas' hot is not that far off of desert hot, only it's not a dry heat, there's just enough humidity to make it feel hotter. Dallas doesn't cool off at night very much. If it's 105 during the day, around midnight you are still in the 90's. It's brutal.
Anemities, I'd give Dallas an edge. With it's urban sprawl, you'll find no shortage of people for hobbies and activities.
Scenery - Phoenix. Dallas is flat and ugly. There are some tree's but not a lot. Most of the lakes are man made. Phoenix at least has mountains.
Traffic - non-factor. All cities have traffic. Unless you are talking Austin or LA, where traffic is substantially worse than most major cities.
So why Phoenix? People. If you've never been to Texas, then you are in for a real shock. Most cities boast people who are proud of where they are from, but Texans take it to another level. The biggest thing in Texas, is the ego's. You'll meet people here who have never been outside the state yet proclaim it the greatest. Everywhere you go. It's nauseating. And even in the cases where they have been, they don't keep an open mind. No joke, a guy in my orientation at a job say they didn't like California "because the burger kings suck. It was more expensive and wasn't as good. I was so glad to get back to Texas. I need my burger king and bud light!" Another one hated Chicago because "they don't got no Sonic!" (actually they do, but who goes to chicago to eat fast food?)
One of the things I find frustrating on this board is how they have little regard for influences people's lives. That is usually what sets me off on these little anti-Texas rants. They complain about transplants, yet they encourage them to move here. And do what they can to hide the negatives. To me, if someone asks for advice on moving to an area, they need to know the positives AND the negatives. Try to post negatives in the Dallas forum on this board and expect to be blasted, called a liberal and receive some nasty messages. Back when you could negative rep people, I used to get negative rep on a regular basis from a post I made about how unpleasant the summers are here in Dallas to a potential transplant.
People come here for geniune advice. I try to give them good and bad. Even cities I love, I will point out the negatives. That is the way it should be. Give the good and the bad.
^^^Its not so much that, I just dont know anybody like your describing in Dallas. Ive been here 5 years and, a few religious zealots aside, my experience with the people has been completely different.
Truth be told, I know very, very few people from Texas in the Dallas area. Lots of people from California, Mexico, and India, not so many from here.
Im not saying we dont have our idiots, we do. But I despise all the things stereotyped of this area (overly religious people, chain places to eat, non-diverse), and yet I have no problems.
By the way, are you sure youre not confusing the Dallas forum with the Texas forum? I dont know any regular Dallas posters who would label you a liberal for disagreeing with you. I can think of some on the Texas board who would.
^^^Its not so much that, I just dont know anybody like your describing in Dallas. Ive been here 5 years and, a few religious zealots aside, my experience with the people has been completely different.
Truth be told, I know very, very few people from Texas in the Dallas area. Lots of people from California, Mexico, and India, not so many from here.
Im not saying we dont have our idiots, we do. But I despise all the things stereotyped of this area (overly religious people, chain places to eat, non-diverse), and yet I have no problems.
By the way, are you sure youre not confusing the Dallas forum with the Texas forum? I dont know any regular Dallas posters who would label you a liberal for disagreeing with you. I can think of some on the Texas board who would.
The Dallas forum may have chilled a lot. I don't go in there often anymore and tend to avoid it over the past few years. I know back in 06-09 a negative comment would get you flamed. So your assertion that my comments fit the Texas forum and not the Dallas forum may be accurate. At one time, you'd get blasted in the Dallas forum. Good to know that is not the case anymore if you are correct.
Dallas is my least liked of the big Texas cities, but it is quite a bit more urban, sophisticated and cosmopolitan than Phoenix. While Phoenix is close to much more attractive scenery, Dallas generally has much better cultural amenities (museums, music, theater etc), WAY WAY better restaurants, and consumer options. Phoenix increasingly feels like a poor man's Orange County without proximity to the ocean or Los Angeles.
Both MSAs have miles and miles of utterly generic suburban sprawl, but Dallas, at least has some great pockets of real urbanity. Uptown Dallas is quite a bit more dense and vibrant than anything in the vicinity of Phoenix. There is no warehouse district like Deep Ellum anywhere in Phoenix, no Phoenix bohemian neighborhood like lower Greenville or North Oakcliff, no Phoenix historic neighborhood of the scale and quality of the Park Cities, Lakewood or Swiss Avenue. While less pretty, Fort Worth is a hundred times more interesting than Tempe or Scottsdale.
Dallas is my least liked of the big Texas cities, but it is quite a bit more urban, sophisticated and cosmopolitan than Phoenix. While Phoenix is close to much more attractive scenery, Dallas generally has much better cultural amenities (museums, music, theater etc), WAY WAY better restaurants, and consumer options. Phoenix increasingly feels like a poor man's Orange County without proximity to the ocean or Los Angeles.
Both MSAs have miles and miles of utterly generic suburban sprawl, but Dallas, at least has some great pockets of real urbanity. Uptown Dallas is quite a bit more dense and vibrant than anything in the vicinity of Phoenix. There is no warehouse district like Deep Ellum anywhere in Phoenix, no Phoenix bohemian neighborhood like lower Greenville or North Oakcliff, no Phoenix historic neighborhood of the scale and quality of the Park Cities, Lakewood or Swiss Avenue. While less pretty, Fort Worth is a hundred times more interesting than Tempe or Scottsdale.
I agree with all this. Dallas does have a more cosmo feel and there are some pockets of urbanity. If I made a lot of money, I would have lived in Uptown. Deep Ellum was a cool place in the 80's and 90's. Unfortunately the city did not embrace that area and made things worse. It's now a high crime area with paid parking.
I agree with all this. Dallas does have a more cosmo feel and there are some pockets of urbanity. If I made a lot of money, I would have lived in Uptown. Deep Ellum was a cool place in the 80's and 90's. Unfortunately the city did not embrace that area and made things worse. It's now a high crime area with paid parking.
Crime has dramatically dropped in the area but it is now a gentrified yuppie gathering
Dallas is my least liked of the big Texas cities, but it is quite a bit more urban, sophisticated and cosmopolitan than Phoenix.
Who cares which city is more urban, sophisticated, and cosmopolitan?
Not me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeinatx
While Phoenix is close to much more attractive scenery,
HAS* much more attractive scenery. And much better weather, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeinatx
Dallas generally has much better cultural amenities (museums, music, theater etc)
I really don't care about museums, theater, opera, and all those other "cultural amenities" that are so highly-regarded on this forum. At all.
Sorry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeinatx
WAY WAY better restaurants
I prefer Sonoran Mexican food over that Tex-Mex garbage.
Also, I'm willing to bet that the Italian restaurants in and around Phoenix are much, much better than Italian restaurants in Dallas due Phoenix's much larger Italian-American population, most of whom are transplants from the Northeast, Midwest, and California.
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeinatx
Phoenix increasingly feels like a poor man's Orange County without proximity to the ocean or Los Angeles.
Oh, yeah, bro? It's Dallas, a.k.a. L.A. wannabe-land. Pot, meet kettle. Haha, I'd rather live in OC-Lite than LA-Lite.
By the way, what the heck is Dallas close to? Definitely not mountains, oceans, forests, or deserts. I guess it's close to Oklahoma City...
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeinatx
Both MSAs have miles and miles of utterly generic suburban sprawl, but Dallas, at least has some great pockets of real urbanity.
I did the whole dense thing. It's nothing to write home about, especially in a city with horrendous weather like Dallas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeinatx
There is no warehouse district like Deep Ellum anywhere in Phoenix, no Phoenix bohemian neighborhood like lower Greenville or North Oakcliff,
Warehouses are a sickening reminder of Rhode Island, which is where I grew up. Yeah, no thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeinatx
no Phoenix historic neighborhood of the scale and quality of the Park Cities, Lakewood or Swiss Avenue.
I'm from one of the oldest towns in America--I've been in way too many 100+ year-old structures. Old homes and buildings give me the creeps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeinatx
While less pretty, Fort Worth is a hundred times more interesting than Tempe or Scottsdale.
Scottsdale > Fort Worth. All day.
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Definitely not mountains, oceans, forests, or deserts. I guess it's close to Oklahoma City... 
