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Old 08-08-2013, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCH_CDM View Post
No, they aren't really the same. The distribution of wealth in Manhattan is far more stratified, with higher concentrations of rich and poor.

If you look at the working-middle cohort, it's much larger in SF, while the higher and lower ends are much larger in Manhattan.
Yes, I understand your point, however, you said San Francisco has "FAR more working class/poor" than Manhattan and that is statistically inaccurate according to the census bureau.

But you are absolutely correct about Manhattan having more of the extreme on ends of the spectrum. Yes.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
You can't compare the degree of gentrification in each city?
No, not in any meaningful way due to the difference in size and scale.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider View Post
No, not in any meaningful way due to the difference in size and scale.
So if that's the case, should New York ever be compared to any other U.S. city in a thread? In what ways can NYC be compared to other cities? And can Chicago, for that matter, be compared to Boston, DC, or SF in any meaningful way since it's about 3 to 4 times as large as those cities?
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:14 AM
 
Location: roaming gnome
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If the cities are compared, the scales need to be changed. The OP tried to do that by comparing it to Manhattan but in actuality made it even more of a warped comparison than it already was due to the way the boroughs are set up. While some areas of SF can resemble areas of say Brooklyn, there is really nothing in SF (or any other city for that matter) that is functioning with the concentration of Manhattan taken as a whole. You need to go to a neighborhood to neighborhood or census tract to census tract level. Like say you could compare areas in the Mission to areas in Williamsburg. I'm all for comparing cities but the scales first need to be adjusted so at least you are comparing something similar. When the cities themselves are very different, you need to go to a microscale.

Boston and SF are much easier comparisons as the scales match up from the beginning.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCH_CDM View Post
It is true. And you apparently didn't read the post, because poverty rates are irrelevent.

I said that "SF is FAR more working class than Manhatan", which is true. It's significantly less wealthy. Manhattan has a much higher proportion of residents in the highest income brackets.

And, again, it's stupid way to compare places. SF is a city, which doesn't even have half the density of Brooklyn or the Bronx. Why would you compare it to Manhattan? It would be like comparing SF to Santa Barbara or something, because they're both expensive and affluent.

You make the claim that San Francisco is more poor/working class than Manhattan, then turn around and say poverty rates are irrelevant?

The city of San Francisco and the island of Manhattan are the hubs of their respective regions. Brooklyn and Queens, for all their impressive density, are not. Again, I see nothing wrong with the comparison.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:21 AM
 
Location: The Bay
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No one in this thread has even attempted to break down the current gentrification trends in either city... I guess I'll take a stab at San Francisco.

Most of the neighborhoods that people reference on this website as "gentrifying" have already gentrified. The Western Addition, Mission District, SOMA, etc. have already gentrified. The neighborhoods people on this site still think are hopeless - Lakeview, the Tenderloin, Bayview, etc. - are actually well into the process of gentrification. SFHA has torn down a lot of projects throughout the city and are concentrating their efforts in Hunters Point now... un-coincidentally they constructed a new MUNI line down 3rd Street (the T line) a few years ago. Gentrification efforts in the southern half of San Francisco are very overt and in many ways aggressive towards San Francisco's remaining working and middle class populations. The Tenderloin is an interesting case so far as it's very different than any other neighborhood in San Francisco: it's the most central neighborhood in SF and it's by far the densest and the poorest. Gentrification has largely been on a block by block basis; some blocks are unrecognizable from what they were even 5 years ago and some are largely the same. All are nowhere near as bad as they were in the 90s though. In all of the above cases, the new tech boom is accelerating gentrification in the City.

That's about as short and to the point that I can get on the subject... It's more complex than that on the individual neighborhood level but I don't have to explain that.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grapico View Post
If the cities are compared, the scales need to be changed. The OP tried to do that by comparing it to Manhattan but in actuality made it even more of a warped comparison than it already was due to the way the boroughs are set up. You need to go to a neighborhood to neighborhood or census tract to census tract level. Like say you could compare areas in the Mission to areas in Williamsburg.
But why even do that? New York has more of everything than SF: more rich people, more middle class people, more poor people, etc. Since NYC is more than 10X the size of SF, I'd also expect it have about 10X as many gentrifiers. If the question is about which city has been most affected by gentrification, then I don't see how a neighborhood-to-neighborhood comparison would be useful. The only thing that makes sense, imo, is to compare entire cities.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:26 AM
 
Location: roaming gnome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
But why even do that? New York has more of everything than SF: more rich people, more middle class people, more poor people, etc. Since NYC is more than 10X the size of SF, I'd also expect it have about 10X as many gentrifiers. If the question is about which city has been most affected by gentrification, then I don't see how a neighborhood-to-neighborhood comparison would be useful. The only thing that makes sense, imo, is to compare entire cities.
Well once that comparison is done you are going to be analyzing 10x as much stuff (theoretically) on NYC.. that is fine I guess, just going to cause somebody to be doing a lot of HW. Statistically I would think far more so of SF has been effected by gentrification than NYC. Another possible comparison would just to be to do SF vs Manhattan below 22nd street or something b/c you have one of the DT's there as well as ethnic (Little Italy, Chinatown) and up and coming neighborhoods (Meatpacking District, LES, etc.)
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
16,756 posts, read 9,220,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grapico View Post
Well once that comparison is done you are going to be analyzing 10x as much stuff (theoretically) on NYC.. that is fine I guess, just going to cause somebody to be doing a lot of HW. Statistically I would think far more so of SF has been effected by gentrification than NYC. Another possible comparison would just to be to do SF vs Manhattan below 22nd street or something b/c you have one of the DT's there as well as ethic and up and coming neighborhoods.
I don't even see this task being that complicated when you go back and read what the OP is asking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd_96 View Post
As the two most densely populated cities in the U.S., how would you compare the pros and cons of recent gentrification in both cities?
I don't see what scale has to do with comparing "the pros and cons of recent gentrification in both cities." Even doing a straight up comparison between NYC and SF, I don't see what's so difficult about saying, "I estimate __% of the city has been yuppified/hipsterfied, etc."
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:17 AM
 
546 posts, read 254,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava View Post
And you think the bolded doesn't happen in San Francisco? Ask all the people from the Mission that got pushed into Bayview.
The Mission has become so gentrified that its actually sad.
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