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These stats are based on the same standards for all metros. They are applied equally, to all. If an area is part of a CSA, it means it has stronger connections to that CSA based on commuting patterns.
If Philadelphia was in any other area of the country, Mercer County, Ocean County in NJ and the Lehigh Valley would all be in the Philly CSA. These all meet CSA requirements to be a part of the Philly CSA.
I was replying to the person who said "Wow NYC screwed Philly" after looking at the CSA numbers.
If Philadelphia was in any other area of the country, Mercer County, Ocean County in NJ and the Lehigh Valley would all be in the Philly CSA. These all meet CSA requirements to be a part of the Philly CSA.
I was replying to the person who said "Wow NYC screwed Philly" after looking at the CSA numbers.
I see what you're saying, but again, the same standards are being applied to both the NYC and Philly areas. They're using the exact same metrics for both.
So, yeah, if Philly were in Oklahoma or something, then there wouldn't be nearby metro areas, so there wouldn't be "competition" for suburban areas that kind of overlap. But then those sprawly areas in places like around Allentown or in Ocean or Mercer Counties wouldn't exist in the first place, because they are mostly NYC commuters.
Philly is obviously in the Northeast Corridor, with all the associated positives and negatives.
I see what you're saying, but again, the same standards are being applied to both the NYC and Philly areas. They're using the exact same metrics for both.
So, yeah, if Philly were in Oklahoma or something, then there wouldn't be nearby metro areas, so there wouldn't be "competition" for suburban areas that kind of overlap. But then those sprawly areas in places like around Allentown or in Ocean or Mercer Counties wouldn't exist in the first place, because they are mostly NYC commuters.
Philly is obviously in the Northeast Corridor, with all the associated positives and negatives.
No not entirely. A lot of Mercer County is Philadelphia commuters and a lot of the Lehigh Valley commutes to Philly area as well and visa versa. Remember, Mercer County developed around Princeton and Trenton, entirely separate of New York City. Mercer County was also a county in the Philly CSA until 2000. A lot of people who live in Bucks County in the Philly metro work in Mercer County and visa versa. The Lehigh Valley was developed around the three cities of Allentown, Bethlehem and Easton. They are entirely separate from NYC and also meet CSA commuting requirements to Philly area, just slightly less than NYC area. They weren't added to NYC until 2010. So to say these areas would not exist if it wasn't for NYC is entirely wrong and ridiculous. These areas were built way before suburbs and developed as separate cities and areas to NYC and Philly.
No not entirely. A lot of Mercer County is Philadelphia commuters and a lot of the Lehigh Valley commutes to Philly area as well and visa versa.
No, not true. Per the Census, many times more commuters from Mercer work in the NYC metro than in the Philly metro. It isn't even close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343
Remember, Mercer County developed around Princeton and Trenton, entirely separate of New York City.
Yeah, I get it. Every place in America has old towns mixed in with the sprawl. Doesn't matter for 2013. The fact is that if Philly weren't close to NYC, and relocated somewhere else, along with Mercer, then Mercer wouldn't be the same place it is today, and wouldn't necessarily be a part of the Philly Metro.
I mean, using your argument, one could argue every county in the Philly metro could be part of the NYC metro if you just picked up NYC and moved it to Oklahoma. After all, if there were no City of Philadelphia, all those people would have to work somewhere, and so most of the metro area could be part of the NYC metro, because there would be no other city center.
No, not true. Per the Census, many times more commuters from Mercer work in the NYC metro than in the Philly metro. It isn't even close.
Yeah, I get it. Every place in America has old towns mixed in with the sprawl. Doesn't matter for 2013. The fact is that if Philly weren't close to NYC, and relocated somewhere else, along with Mercer, then Mercer wouldn't be the same place it is today, and wouldn't necessarily be a part of the Philly Metro.
I mean, using your argument, one could argue every county in the Philly metro could be part of the NYC metro if you just picked up NYC and moved it to Oklahoma. After all, if there were no City of Philadelphia, all those people would have to work somewhere, and so most of the metro area could be part of the NYC metro, because there would be no other city center.
You're really not thinking are you? Mercer County was apart of the Philly CSA until 2000. After that it was added to NYC CSA. Mercer County was already FAR developed by 2000. You really think Mercer only started building up in the last 13 years? Haha. The suburbs of Mercer County were developing since the 50s. Same with the Lehigh Valley. It was not added to the NYC CSA until 2011 or 2012. You think the suburbs in Lehigh Valley only started developing two years ago once it was added to the NYC CSA? These areas developed entirely separate from NYC for decades.
Look at the Lehigh Valley. It's not a suburb of NYC, it developed entirely separately from it. There is a TON of undeveloped land between the Lehigh Valley and NYC burbs. (Scroll to the right to see NYC burbs) http://goo.gl/maps/ThzQt
Also, Mercer county is more densely developed with the Philadelphia area than it is the NYC area because Mercer County came up and developed with the Philly area. http://goo.gl/maps/nvQvj
Summersm, you obviously don't understand the CSA metric. Read up on the definition, then get back to us.
It has nothing to do with what happened in the past. It looks at the present only. In the present, places like Mercer County are part of the NYC metro and not a part of the Philly metro. The numbers aren't even remotely close.
And your historical trajectory is all wrong anyways. There weren't even CSAs back when you claim, and Mercer was never a part of a Philly CSA.
I see what you're saying, but again, the same standards are being applied to both the NYC and Philly areas. They're using the exact same metrics for both.
If you saw the integration and assimilation of Trenton and Allentown in regards to the Philadlephia and NYC regions you would understand the argument. Its one of those things that has to be seen to believe. Trenton is part of NYC and not Philadelphia? Uhh What? Who? Hey Whats going on here.
Trenton and its urban area is 100% connected to Philadlephia. 0% to NYC.
Allentown is slightly less connected to Philly but still 0% connected to NYC.
The fact that Trenton and Allentown are included in NYC metro is ridiculous and wrong. From my understanding deals with 2 issues.
1. Local govt officials and workers in the Trenton area receive a higher cost of living allowance being associated with NYC as opposed to Philly.If you read deep into OMB census criteria I believe you will find that local govt does have say and input into its designation.
2. Marketing ploy on a national and international stage attempting to bloat NYC's metro stature. This is a region that now spans from Northern Connecticut to parts of South Central Pa. Which is utterly ridiculous on the surface.
He can't accept the fact that NYC's influence is 10x greater then Philly's in that general area. Philly continues to lose influence year and year. It's continues to be less competitive in the world and will be according to this: U.S. Cities On The Rise: The Most Competitive Cities in 2025
NYC is not stealing from Philly. In fact, Philly is still stealing from NYC. Face it. Philly is losing it's grip.
Summersm, you obviously don't understand the CSA metric. Read up on the definition, then get back to us.
It has nothing to do with what happened in the past. It looks at the present only. In the present, places like Mercer County are part of the NYC metro and not a part of the Philly metro. The numbers aren't even remotely close.
And your historical trajectory is all wrong anyways. There weren't even CSAs back when you claim, and Mercer was never a part of a Philly CSA.
MichiVegas. I clearly understand the CSA metrics and I have no beef with that. I was simply making an observation and responded to someone elses comment.
It's very clear you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about... and I am completely baffled why you are even still responding. Mercer County was officially a part of the Philadelphia area until 2000 when it was then added to the NYC area. SEPTA serves Mercer County, and Mercer County is in the Philadelphia media market.
I'm not arguing the definition of the CSA, I'm arguing your ludicrous claims that Mercer County and the Lehigh Valley only developed because of NYC and that they don't have any ties to the Philly area.
Here is the 1990 Census. What does it say?
Philadelphia-Wilmington-Trenton, PA-NJ-DE-MD CMSA Philadelphia, PA-NJ PMSA Burlington County, NJ Camden County, NJ Gloucester County, NJ Bucks County, PA Chester County, PA Delaware County, PA Montgomery County, PA Philadelphia County, PA Trenton, NJ PMSA Mercer County Vineland-Millville-Bridgeton, NJ PMSA Cumberland County Wilmington, DE-NJ-MD PMSA New Castle County, DE Cecil County, MD Salem County, NJ
He can't accept the fact that NYC's influence is 10x greater then Philly's in that general area. Philly continues to lose influence year and year. It's continues to be less competitive in the world and will be according to this: U.S. Cities On The Rise: The Most Competitive Cities in 2025
NYC is not stealing from Philly. In fact, Philly is still stealing from NYC. Face it. Philly is losing it's grip.
No. I can accept that. I'm responding to his ridiculous claims that Mercer County only developed because of NYC. IDK how Philly is losing it's grip. Any city would be right next to NYC.
And yes... let's all use the HUFFINGTON POST as a reliable source of Data HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Philly still owns Atlanta. Mind your place boy.
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