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^^ Agree and ^ Agree. This is not an attack on LA, but matching it up to Paris? Come on now. You really think they are similar, or *ever* will be? LA would need to bulldoze most of the city and start over again.
You are clearly missing the point of the article. Not saying I completely agree with it, but Walker is referring strictly to a multi-nodal layout. In this way you could say LA and DC are more alike than any other US cities, even though at ground level they look vastly different. That is why there are not a ton of protests in the comments of the article, though there are some that disagree with Walker.
You are clearly missing the point of the article. Not saying I completely agree with it, but Walker is referring strictly to a multi-nodal layout. In this way you could say LA and DC are more alike than any other US cities, even though at ground level they look vastly different. That is why there are not a ton of protests in the comments of the article, though there are some that disagree with Walker.
But Walker is flat out wrong. Paris is about as multi-nodal as NYC is. NYC is "multi-nodal" in the sense that we have Downtown BK, LIC, White Plains, some places in Jersey, etc. But the largest concentration of jobs is by far in Manhattan South of 59th Street. The Paris urban area is more compact than NYC's, but the same principle still applies. It's a highly centralized and urban area and that centralization is a large part of what fuels transit ridership.
And as I said above, it's even more centralized when you consider the places most people visiting Paris are actually going. Other than Versailles or Euro Disney, most people visiting Paris can walk to most of their destinations. The tourist zone of the city is very small and compact.
But Walker is flat out wrong. Paris is about as multi-nodal as NYC is. NYC is "multi-nodal" in the sense that we have Downtown BK, LIC, White Plains, some places in Jersey, etc. But the largest concentration of jobs is by far in Manhattan South of 59th Street. The Paris urban area is more compact than NYC's, but the same principle still applies. It's a highly centralized and urban area and that centralization is a large part of what fuels transit ridership.
And as I said above, it's even more centralized when you consider the places most people visiting Paris are actually going. Other than Versailles or Euro Disney, most people visiting Paris can walk to most of their destinations. The tourist zone of the city is very small and compact.
Like I said I don't necessarily agree with the article just that Grapico is missing the point. It's not about tight streets or even density, just the fact that multi-nodal cities can be highly effective transit cities. I think it shows in Los Angeles' relatively high (for the US) ridership per mile that looks to only increase as the system expands. Don't see how you can argue that a West LA to Century City to DTLA heavy rail line won't get ridiculous ridership, largely because there is two-way traffic between these massive job centers (It will also run beneath what is the busiest bus corridor in the US outside of NYC). The Expo Line will be a bit of a preview of this, as it will connect Santa Monica and DTLA via USC though it runs through less-desirable neighborhoods like West Adams and Jefferson.
Also I laugh every time you talk about driving and parking in Los Angeles being an easy and inexpensive thing to do. Sure it's way easier than NYC but it's not Phoenix either - my friend way out in Manhattan Beach basically has to walk everywhere to get anything done for fear he will lose his parking spot he spent half an hour driving around to find (but he does drive to work, so even though he counts against LA's transit share he is a pedestrian the majority of times he makes a trip). This is the same sort of thing my friends with cars in Boston would do.
Last edited by munchitup; 03-03-2014 at 12:59 PM..
La Defense is an analog of Jersey City or Canary Wharf (albeit larger than either) -- a satellite business district that has sprung up adjacent to the city center due to cheaper real estate and more flexible regulations on development. In no way does it make Paris any more polycentric than NYC or London. Like Manhattan and Central London, Paris city proper retains the highest concentration of jobs in the Paris metropolitan area.
Like I said I don't necessarily agree with the article just that Grapico is missing the point. It's not about tight streets or even density, just the fact that multi-nodal cities can be highly effective transit cities. I think it shows in Los Angeles' relatively high (for the US) ridership per mile that looks to only increase as the system expands. Don't see how you can argue that a West LA to Century City to DTLA heavy rail line won't get ridiculous ridership, largely because there is two-way traffic between these massive job centers. The Expo Line will be a bit of a preview of this, as it will connect Santa Monica and DTLA.
But my point is that Walker's analogy doesn't hold up because he fails to recognize that Paris is not really any different from NYC as far as job concentration goes. Does it have better subway coverage throughout its region? Yes. But that's separate and apart from the reason why it's ridership is so high in the first place. Centralization is a definitely a reason why it's so high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup
I laugh every time you talk about driving and parking in Los Angeles being an easy and inexpensive thing to do. Sure it's way easier than NYC but it's not Phoenix either - my friend way out in Manhattan Beach basically has to walk everywhere to get anything done for fear he will lose his parking spot he spent half an hour driving around to find (but he does drive to work, so even though he counts against LA's transit share he is a pedestrian the majority of times he makes a trip). This is the same sort of thing my friends with cars in Boston would do.
I didn't say it was Phoenix. I said that it was relatively easy to park, particularly in the downtown core when compared to DC, Boston or SF.
What the point we are trying to make about LA here? That it's not walkable and residents have to drive everywhere and if you aren't driving, you are poor? Not quite true.
That LA is as pedestrian dense as NYC? Not quite true either.
Like I said I don't necessarily agree with the article just that Grapico is missing the point. It's not about tight streets or even density, just the fact that multi-nodal cities can be highly effective transit cities. I think it shows in Los Angeles' relatively high (for the US) ridership per mile that looks to only increase as the system expands. Don't see how you can argue that a West LA to Century City to DTLA heavy rail line won't get ridiculous ridership, largely because there is two-way traffic between these massive job centers (It will also run beneath what is the busiest bus corridor in the US outside of NYC). The Expo Line will be a bit of a preview of this, as it will connect Santa Monica and DTLA.
For a similar density, the transit ridership numbers are generally lower. I'd have to dig up the link, but Paris supports this: Paris-bound commutes get a much higher transit % than other ones. Los Angeles gets a higher ridership per mile because it's denser than most American metros, so the deninamator is smaller.
The difference between Paris and Los Angeles is so large the point is lost, it just doesn't work.
Also I laugh every time you talk about driving and parking in Los Angeles being an easy and inexpensive thing to do. Sure it's way easier than NYC but it's not Phoenix either - my friend way out in Manhattan Beach basically has to walk everywhere to get anything done for fear he will lose his parking spot he spent half an hour driving around to find (but he does drive to work, so even though he counts against LA's transit share he is a pedestrian the majority of times he makes a trip). This is the same sort of thing my friends with cars in Boston would do.
^ This. My loft has a deeded parking space (thank god) but when I was renting I had to pay $200/mo for a single parking space. That's a far cry from the $600/mo a space that I hear its common for New Yorkers to have to pay, but its a hell of a lot more than you'd pay in most other US cities.
^ This. My loft has a deeded parking space (thank god) but when I was renting I had to pay $200/mo for a single parking space. That's a far cry from the $600/mo a space that I hear its common for New Yorkers to have to pay, but its a hell of a lot more than you'd pay in most other US cities.
In Boston it was about 150-175 for a parking spot. Hollywood was in the 75-175 range (depending on whether you parked in a covered, secure garage or this). My cousin lives on the north side of Koreatown and has no parking space and spends hours a week searching for a parking spot, it's part of the reason she is looking to move (because she has to commute to Burbank, which is not served by Metro).
^ This. My loft has a deeded parking space (thank god) but when I was renting I had to pay $200/mo for a single parking space. That's a far cry from the $600/mo a space that I hear its common for New Yorkers to have to pay, but its a hell of a lot more than you'd pay in most other US cities.
I don't think you understood what I was saying. Where can I go on the UES and park in a surface lot free of charge?
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