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Old 04-20-2014, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,331 posts, read 23,751,831 times
Reputation: 7419

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis View Post
Marothiu,

Where do I start.

First of all you have proven yourself totally ignorant on several occasions when it comes to the black experience in Chicago.

How dare you try to discredit anyone's testimony on their personal experiences in any city just because you haven't experienced it as a non black minority.

I believe you disclosed that you are an hr professional for a company with ethical hiring practices? If that is the case and you've been in the field for longer than 10 years you are not telling the truth when writing that there isn't a problem with discrimination in the workplace. You, given the demographic information about yourself, should know that small business owners can get away with a lot of things and they do verbalize it.

otoh, I do think it's ballsy for a manager to express that they don't hire blacks in a major company. I don't find it hard to believe and is opening the door to be sitting in the unemployment lines for a very long time.

I feel the situation that you have experience in other Midwestern states with death threats to your family. That is not a good experience for anyone and is far more than I or anyone I know have experienced but I can't deny it. I hope you can see where I'm going with this.

There are many things that you offer great advice on based upon your experience of living and interacting with Chicago but the Black experience is not one of them. You can't claim to be urbane, progressive and open minded if you refuse to listen to people's story.
Mtj - I am sorry if that came out wrong. I was not trying to discredit anything that you said (I tried to get at that at the end, but I didn't say it the right way).

I am personally not an HR professional - people who are in charge of hiring at companies at the core, at least mine and many many others, are not the HR people. HR is only responsible for the initial screening usually (i.e. looking at a resume, filtering on various keywords, etc). After HR gets through with that, the people who would be working with the person start to interview that person. It's up to other people who will work with those people to say who they hire. HR only sits in and listens to what you decide and they rarely have any actual say in who actually gets hired. The only say they have is suggesting the level they may be brought in as. At my company too, no one person has a say in who gets hired. It's by committee - so if someone has a beef with someone secretly because of race, but everyone else doesn't and they think the guy is competent and what not, then it wont even matter. They'll be hired because everyone else loved the person and their opinion will become moot. I personally don't work for a small business, and perhaps they can get away with it more easily, but a larger company is not going to get away with it at all.

As far as everything else, I am merely offering you what my friends have told me, and the ones I have been romantically linked to as well. None of my black friends by any means have had any easy path, but I can say that about most of my non-white friends no matter what their own ethnicity is. I am very receptive of these things, and all I was saying is that what my friends have told me doesn't exactly line up with what you're saying. This doesn't mean I'm trying to say what you said doesn't happen but I am offering up what's been conveyed to me by friends in conversation about similar things. Everyone obviously has different experiences and in no way was I discrediting you. However, it's hard for me to sit here and you telling me that I'm not listening to you, when you are not listening to what my friends have conveyed and what I'm writing down here. Having been through what I've been through growing up, it's hard to not listen to what others' experiences have been who have very possibly been in the same boat as me.

I truly believe that there are people who experience both to this day - both discrimination and not so obvious discrimination. I truly believe that life is all about timing and sometimes things happen to present themselves more, or less, to some people for no apparent reason (I can think of a recent friend who went through Cancer and all the stuff that's happened in his life has been insane, but that's another story). Iin the realm of business, especially the professional type of stuff, all companies usually care about is $$$$$$ and fit. In the end, if they think that you are competent, you can do the job, are the best candidate presented, and will work well with the team, then they will hire you. The only time where anything race related has come into a hiring decision was a few candidates whose English was very poor. Other than that, even bringing it up and joking that you wouldn't like to hire them based on their race would probably get you fired. No joke.

It's hard for me to sit here, being involved in these things, and think that in this day and age anybody at a company would be that stupid to not hire someone based on something as stupid as what ethnicity or skin color they are. Perhaps it goes on and I'm so immune to it because it's a no-no that I can't fathom any reputable company doing it, but I can guarantee you in this day and age it's not very much in a large city at a profitable and well respected company.

I feel bad for the companies who do it, no matter how many, because they're missing out on obvious opportunities. And if it does go on more than I do think, then America has some serious problems in business for its future.

Last edited by marothisu; 04-20-2014 at 10:58 PM..
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:51 PM
 
7,099 posts, read 8,866,617 times
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Ic.

If we had met within my first three years living in Chicago, I think my experience would have been identical to your friends that you've mentioned. So your analogy isn't far fetched.

No "right thinking" person wants to be part of a community that discriminates against anyone. Noticed I said right thinking. Coming from Memphis, I noticed discrimination on many different levels from all different directions. I personally didn't notice it here. All of a sudden a huge wake up call sounded off. I had accused some of my friends of looking at race all the time and was very quick to tell then to get a life. It's not about race all the time. When I experienced some of what they where talking about I had to start apologizing and admitting I was not just wrong but extremely wrong on how racially motivated Chicago was.

I work for one of the best companies for gays, blacks, women and everything else. I can honestly say they try to do the right thing. Unfortunately we are in the minority. And we know it. Many companies hire and promote based on who you know. Many big city bars will promote an image and if you don't look and act a certain way you will not get the job. It's not about resumes and qualifications and if you can do the job.

I've been privileged to have opportunities to succeed on so many levels in life. To see others struggle with just getting the basics doesn't seem fair. Everyone should have the opportunity to be successful and live where they want and be happy. When I see discrimination in jobs housing and other things, it's beyond annoying. To see so much of it in a city like Chicago when clearly doesn't have to be is worse.
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:57 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,331 posts, read 23,751,831 times
Reputation: 7419
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis View Post
Ic.

If we had met within my first three years living in Chicago, I think my experience would have been identical to your friends that you've mentioned. So your analogy isn't far fetched.

No "right thinking" person wants to be part of a community that discriminates against anyone. Noticed I said right thinking. Coming from Memphis, I noticed discrimination on many different levels from all different directions. I personally didn't notice it here. All of a sudden a huge wake up call sounded off. I had accused some of my friends of looking at race all the time and was very quick to tell then to get a life. It's not about race all the time. When I experienced some of what they where talking about I had to start apologizing and admitting I was not just wrong but extremely wrong on how racially motivated Chicago was.

I work for one of the best companies for gays, blacks, women and everything else. I can honestly say they try to do the right thing. Unfortunately we are in the minority. And we know it. Many companies hire and promote based on who you know. Many big city bars will promote an image and if you don't look and act a certain way you will not get the job. It's not about resumes and qualifications and if you can do the job.

I've been privileged to have opportunities to succeed on so many levels in life. To see others struggle with just getting the basics doesn't seem fair. Everyone should have the opportunity to be successful and live where they want and be happy. When I see discrimination in jobs housing and other things, it's beyond annoying. To see so much of it in a city like Chicago when clearly doesn't have to be is worse.
Yeah, it's unfortunate that it had to happen to you no doubt. I hope it does not happen to me that it will jade me. So far I have seen one really, obvious racist thing and it really really pissed me off. I've seen stuff like that in other cities though so the first thing that crossed my mind was "wtf Chicago!?" I've experienced similar things in LA and NYC.

As far as the bars and restaurants, you're right. However, most restaurants I go to, at least downtown, have Black people on the wait staff, front of the house, bar, etc. I mentioned it before but even at some of the really swanky places near me in the Gold Coast they have black bartenders and staff. Actually the most upscale restaurant I have been to in town - same thing. Front of the house the guy was Black and one of my waiters was too. I'm glad for this and what you've written in the past has actually made me more aware of this type of stuff. I actually make it a point to notice the demographics of the places I'm going to.

I totally agree - everyone regardless of their background, should have the opportunity to succeed. Frankly not giving various residents of our country equal opportunity is pretty un patriotic if you ask me.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:38 AM
 
7,132 posts, read 9,073,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Yeah, it's unfortunate that it had to happen to you no doubt. I hope it does not happen to me that it will jade me. So far I have seen one really, obvious racist thing and it really really pissed me off. I've seen stuff like that in other cities though so the first thing that crossed my mind was "wtf Chicago!?" I've experienced similar things in LA and NYC.

As far as the bars and restaurants, you're right. However, most restaurants I go to, at least downtown, have Black people on the wait staff, front of the house, bar, etc. I mentioned it before but even at some of the really swanky places near me in the Gold Coast they have black bartenders and staff. Actually the most upscale restaurant I have been to in town - same thing. Front of the house the guy was Black and one of my waiters was too. I'm glad for this and what you've written in the past has actually made me more aware of this type of stuff. I actually make it a point to notice the demographics of the places I'm going to.

I totally agree - everyone regardless of their background, should have the opportunity to succeed. Frankly not giving various residents of our country equal opportunity is pretty un patriotic if you ask me.

Wait, are you black??
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,331 posts, read 23,751,831 times
Reputation: 7419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
Wait, are you black??
I'm not black - I have a number of black friends though and I like to talk with my friends who are socially aware about social issues like this. Though the black girl I dated last summer's mom thought I was half black. SO it's very possible that some people think that too. I'm very racially ambiguous. What someone thinks my background is really wildly varies from one person to another. I am not 100% white though and have faced discrimination in my life, but compared to what I grew up with - Chicago has been very good. The other places I've lived in were pretty racist compared to it - personally I mean. Not speaking for everyone.
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Old 04-21-2014, 03:49 AM
 
Location: Prince George's County, Maryland
6,212 posts, read 9,150,148 times
Reputation: 2581
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycjowww View Post
What are the relationships between blacks and Latinos once you enter Maryland?

How many Puerto Ricans and Dominicans are there? Because I mainly saw Central Americans.
Here in the DC area part of Maryland, we get along really well with each other. My neighborhood here in southern PG County is a diverse mix, with a couple of Latino families and several Black families as well as Whites and an Asian family. I don't really hear of or notice any kind of tensions between Blacks and Latinos in this part of Maryland. Whenever I'm in Colmar Manor, Silver Spring, Wheaton, New Carrolton, Beltsville, etc., you'll see both races either intermingling with each other or carrying on about their business with hardly any signs of hostility. There's a decent population of Latinos at my community college, and people get along really well. As for the demographics of suburban Maryland's Latino population, there are some black Dominicans living around here but Puerto Ricans are practically abysmal for the most part. You'll find more of them up in the Baltimore area side of Maryland, but I think their presence will be more heavily felt once you hit Philadelphia. The Latino population here on the MD side of the DMV is predominately Central American with a modest Mexican population in a few spots, mostly Langley Park here in PG.
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Old 04-21-2014, 07:56 AM
 
Location: O4W
3,744 posts, read 4,756,976 times
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Boston and Chicago are at the bottom of this list
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:31 AM
 
7,099 posts, read 8,866,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcave360 View Post
Here in the DC area part of Maryland, we get along really well with each other. My neighborhood here in southern PG County is a diverse mix, with a couple of Latino families and several Black families as well as Whites and an Asian family. I don't really hear of or notice any kind of tensions between Blacks and Latinos in this part of Maryland. Whenever I'm in Colmar Manor, Silver Spring, Wheaton, New Carrolton, Beltsville, etc., you'll see both races either intermingling with each other or carrying on about their business with hardly any signs of hostility. There's a decent population of Latinos at my community college, and people get along really well. As for the demographics of suburban Maryland's Latino population, there are some black Dominicans living around here but Puerto Ricans are practically abysmal for the most part. You'll find more of them up in the Baltimore area side of Maryland, but I think their presence will be more heavily felt once you hit Philadelphia. The Latino population here on the MD side of the DMV is predominately Central American with a modest Mexican population in a few spots, mostly Langley Park here in PG.
This is what I expected to read about dc suburban area.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:39 AM
 
7,132 posts, read 9,073,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis View Post
This is what I expected to read about dc suburban area.
DC's probably one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world. I'd say it's definitely 2 or 3 after NYC and maybe SF bay area here in the states..
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Old 05-02-2014, 11:52 PM
 
1,605 posts, read 3,904,738 times
Reputation: 1595
Before I give my input, you couldn't pick a better list of the four worst cities for race relations. Add that to Chicago, and you would have the five cities I would NOT deal with if I had the choice.....well I'll give an exception to NYC in the case of visiting there for vacation or business.

But being from the DC area, I don't get how anyone says this city has great race relations in any way. Especially within the District itself when you look at the black/white (or black/non-black divide). And I won't blame one side for this, for the whites, blacks, and whitewashed Asians/Indians at fault. The only race that doesn't really fuel the racism in DC are Latinos. They usually just remain neutral in their own communities, but are generally respectful to all the other races when in public places like the workspace or on the street. But unlike NYC, Boston, and Philadelphia, DC's racism is very covert and subtle in order to keep its super-liberal and international reputation intact. The suburbs, especially one you get outside the Beltway in Northern VA and Montgomery County, are better. But here's the main problem those suburbs (and especially the city itself) faces with when it comes to its race relations:

90% OF DC'S TRANSPLANTS COME FROM NYC, PHILLY, BOSTON, OR CHICAGO, which are all also very bad when it comes to race relations. And most of them have no problem holding on to their racial prejudice, particularly towards blacks. And this has been spreading like a virus to the otherwise racially harmonious suburbs like Prince William, Fairfax, Loudoun, and Montgomery. Combine that with the fact that the majority of DC's local blacks are lower-income and show the worse tendencies of African Americans makes it bad for all blacks.

As for "upward mobile blacks", most of those "corporate blacks" are working for federal and local government agencies that pay middle-class wages at best. Actually, the EEOC standards of getting those federal jobs are so lenient, it allows more unsavory blacks - particularly black females - to get through the ranks very easy. Most of the high-paying six-figure jobs (lobbying firms, consulting companies, etc) are majority white with a few Asians and Indians.

And the nightlife is where you can see DC's segregation full on. There are spots where blacks hang out and spots where whites/Asians/Indians hang out. And even in places where the spots are "diverse", the cliques are separated by race. The more racially integrated nightspots are in the suburbs outside the beltway.

But if you have to compare DC to Philadelphia, NYC, and Boston, I guess DC would be the least crappy of the four, mainly due to its fairly integrated suburbs. But that's starting to change for the worst, mainly due to the transplants from the other cities flocking to DC and bringing their racial BS with them.

Last edited by Do a Barrel Roll; 05-03-2014 at 12:01 AM..
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