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View Poll Results: Most rapidly urbanizing?
DC 48 44.04%
LA 30 27.52%
Seattle 24 22.02%
Other 7 6.42%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-12-2014, 03:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
When I think of a tram, I think of what they have in Paris. When I think of a streetcar, I think of what they're building in DC.
In a lot of European cities the "tram" is exactly the same thing being used on new "street-car" routes in the US. The street-cars in Portland and Seattle and the line in DC are actually just "trams" being built and used in the Czech Republic(and used in other places in Eastern Europe and Russia). The trams in Amsterdam or Vienna or Sarajevo would just be called street-cars or trolleys in the states as well.
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Old 03-12-2014, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,860 posts, read 34,362,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
In a lot of European cities the "tram" is exactly the same thing being used on new "street-car" routes in the US. The street-cars in Portland and Seattle and the line in DC are actually just "trams" being built and used in the Czech Republic. The trams in Amsterdam or Vienna or Sarajevo would just be called street-cars or trolleys in the states as well.
Yeah, but the critical difference between what you see in Paris and what you see (hopefully) in DC is that the latter doesn't have an exclusive ROW for any significant part of its route. It's going to operate in mixed-traffic 99% of the time and will function more as a high-falutin' bus despite all protestations to the contrary. For that reason, I call it a "streetcar" since it will be essentially doing the same thing as the streetcars that existed in the 50s did.

I agree that the technology is largely the same. It's the way they're being used that distinguishes them in my mind.
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,084 posts, read 15,758,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Yeah, but the critical difference between what you see in Paris and what you see (hopefully) in DC is that the latter doesn't have an exclusive ROW for any significant part of its route. It's going to operate in mixed-traffic 99% of the time and will function more as a high-falutin' bus despite all protestations to the contrary. For that reason, I call it a "streetcar" since it will be essentially doing the same thing as the streetcars that existed in the 50s did.

I agree that the technology is largely the same. It's the way they're being used that distinguishes them in my mind.
The latter is what I think of when I hear "streetcar", which is why I don't think of LA's LRT system being streetcars at all. It is never in mixed traffic and the majority of crossing are grade-separated, and a large portion of the lines are elevated or underground (including areas outside of downtown like East LA, Mid-City and along the Arroyo Seco).

This is further hammered home by the fact that there is a plan to build a streetcar line (and eventually system) in DTLA - and it is considered a completely separate entity from the Metro Rail system (it too is just a high-falutin' bus).
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,674 posts, read 15,574,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Yeah, but the critical difference between what you see in Paris and what you see (hopefully) in DC is that the latter doesn't have an exclusive ROW for any significant part of its route. It's going to operate in mixed-traffic 99% of the time and will function more as a high-falutin' bus despite all protestations to the contrary. For that reason, I call it a "streetcar" since it will be essentially doing the same thing as the streetcars that existed in the 50s did.

I agree that the technology is largely the same. It's the way they're being used that distinguishes them in my mind.
That isn't going to be the case. Why are you saying that? They are trying to give the streetcar in DC it's own lanes. The first line will already have it's own lanes along the entire stretch down K street through downtown until Georgetown. It will be more so 50/50. Georgia Ave is going to gets lanes most likely too. I mentioned this two years ago before it was released to the public. Do you remember?
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
That is not going to be the case. Why are you saying that? They are trying to give the streetcar in DC it's own lanes. The first line will already have it's own lanes along the entire stretch down K street through downtown until Georgetown.
Well, we'll see. It would be totally stupid to tear up the streets for 6 years to build a streetcar line down K Street when there are already 4 or 5 Metro stations serving that area. You can't ride a streetcar to Northern Virginia.

And the initial line does not have an exclusive ROW. And it never will because of where they put it. Did you not see the test where it took DDOT and hour to go a mile?

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...235929931.html
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,674 posts, read 15,574,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Well, we'll see. It would be totally stupid to tear up the streets for 6 years to build a streetcar line down K Street when there are already 4 or 5 Metro stations serving that area. You can't ride a streetcar to Northern Virginia.

And the initial line does not have an exclusive ROW. And it never will because of where they put it. Did you not see the test where it took DDOT and hour to go a mile?

DC Streetcar Test Hits Snag | NBC4 Washington
K street is a done deal. Buses will use those lanes too. The conversation has switched to dedicated lanes on Georgia Ave. I told you this was going to happen 2 years ago long before the public knew about the dedicated lanes on Georgia Ave. Do you remember?
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,674 posts, read 15,574,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post

And the initial line does not have an exclusive ROW. And it never will because of where they put it. Did you not see the test where it took DDOT and hour to go a mile?

DC Streetcar Test Hits Snag | NBC4 Washington
That's going to change real quick. After the towing and delivery changes, we won't be saying anything about it. You will also see traffic switch on H street to other routes. You will see. It's all apart of the plan. I can't really say anymore but you will see.
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,860 posts, read 34,362,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
K street is a done deal. Buses will use those lanes too. The conversation has switched to dedicated lanes on Georgia Ave. I told you this was going to happen 2 years ago long before the public knew about the dedicated lanes on Georgia Ave. Do you remember?
Well, I can't wait for the unmitigated disaster that's going to turn out to be. I'll be right here waiting to say "I told you so."
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:11 PM
 
9,961 posts, read 17,429,426 times
Reputation: 9193
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Yeah, but the critical difference between what you see in Paris and what you see (hopefully) in DC is that the latter doesn't have an exclusive ROW for any significant part of its route. It's going to operate in mixed-traffic 99% of the time and will function more as a high-falutin' bus despite all protestations to the contrary. For that reason, I call it a "streetcar" since it will be essentially doing the same thing as the streetcars that existed in the 50s did.

I agree that the technology is largely the same. It's the way they're being used that distinguishes them in my mind.
Yes but, there are plenty of "trams" in Europe that operate almost solely in mixed traffic routes and don't have any exclusive ROW. There's vintage trams as well that are basically the same as cable cars in San Francisco. And there's other trams that are closer to light rail. There's a tram line in Amsterdam that partly used metro tracks(same tracks as heavy rail) to a neighboring suburb that's called a "sneltram" or "fast tram"(in the states we'd call the route light rail).

The term tram(or equivalants in different languages) is Europe is basically everything on rails less than heavy rail. We just have our own set of naming conventions.

In the end who cares what the names are? The difference between the streetcar and light rail where I live is obvious. Light rail can get me to the airport in about 30 minutes from downtown, streetcars take close to 30 minutes to get across downtown and I can often beat by walking at a brisk pace.
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,860 posts, read 34,362,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
The term tram(or equivalants in different languages) is Europe is basically everything on rails less than heavy rail. We just have our own set of naming conventions.
That's true. Here, I feel that people sometimes use "LRT" as a catch-all for everything that's not heavy rail, which I don't particularly care for, but it is what it is.
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