Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
OK the Phoenix reference is kinda out there. Clearly by "South," at least in terms of geography, we're talking about the old Confederacy or the states below the Mason-Dixon line. We're not talking about every state in the southern half of the country.
That was my point. Culture defines what region you are in, not the actual geography.
That was my point. Culture defines what region you are in, not the actual geography.
But I was saying that you still can't throw Phoenix in there to make that point because by "the South," we're actually talking about the historic South which does refer to geography. "The South" was a defined region, the actual southern portion of the country, when Arizona wasn't even a state.
And I'd argue that geography still plays a role in a place's designation; you can't discount it completely. Otherwise what are you going to do over time when creeping "Northernization" completely engulfs Virginia or Florida? I know that there's a cultural component to being Southern in a way that's different from being Northern, Midwestern, or Western, but I think our definition of what it means to be Southern needs to evolve because if we start kicking cities out they begin exhibiting certain traits, at some point that will mean the disappearance of the region altogether.
In real life, people don't ponder this. Actually, I've NEVER heard this pondered, in conversation. Isn't anything south of the Mason Dixon line considered to be southern? Isn't that the rule of thumb? Look at a map if you need to, but Dallas is in the south. Culturally where a city lies, isn't debated in society or real life...only in forums. Look at a map...if it's in the south, it's southern.
I have yet to hear someone from the DC metro area say they're "Southern." There's no debate about DC's identity as Northern where I live...
The southernmost parts of New Jersey are more southern geographically than the Mason-Dixon Line. If you extend the Mason-Dixon Line east to the ocean, it would end 20 miles north of Atlantic City. I'm not saying Atlantic City is part of the southern region, but I'm just saying that Atlantic City and most of Southern New Jersey is southern geographically, but Southern New Jersey, like the rest of New Jersey is part of the northeast region.
But I was saying that you still can't throw Phoenix in there to make that point because by "the South," we're actually talking about the historic South which does refer to geography. "The South" was a defined region, the actual southern portion of the country, when Arizona wasn't even a state.
And I'd argue that geography still plays a role in a place's designation; you can't discount it completely. Otherwise what are you going to do over time when creeping "Northernization" completely engulfs Virginia or Florida? I know that there's a cultural component to being Southern in a way that's different from being Northern, Midwestern, or Western, but I think our definition of what it means to be Southern needs to evolve because if we start kicking cities out they begin exhibiting certain traits, at some point that will mean the disappearance of the region altogether.
You're right, and I would add that some people confuse southern and sunbelt for various reasons, which is why you might see Phoenix, Miami, San Antonio, and even Santa Fe thrown in the mix although it would be very hard to prove how those cities are "Southern" in the historical sense. As you also noted, some historical regional influences can skip other regions or even form new cultures due to an influx of new residents (transplants) or types of industries. Examples of blended cultures could include New Orleans, Miami, Washington D.C.. etc.
The Allman Brothers started in Jacksonville, and it was also the home to Lynyrd Skynyrd, Molly Hatchet, .38 Special, and Blackfoot.
If it's not solidly Southern, then we need to seriously reconsider our perceived borders.
I think Jax is defintely southern all this talk of northen transplants is a bit exgaerrated. It's nothing like Orlando or Tampa. It basically feels like an extension of Southern Georgia.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
