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I have said this a few times on this forum, Chicago is somewhat unique in that it is more important / iconic / cultural / noticeable / etc within it's country's own borders than it is in the rest of the world - and SF is the opposite.
As a 20 plus year American expat having lived in 7 countries....I have to disagree. Go to clubs in Europe and most people know that house music, which continues to dominate club music worldwide is from Chicago. And of course Chicago is more closesly assciated in the world's mind with American iconic musical genres such as Jazz and the Blues.
I have seen clubs, bars and restaurants named Chicago in countless dozens of cities all over Asia and Europe, one rarely sees establishments named San Francisco.
And virtually every woman of a certain age I've met in many countries is very very aware of Chicago through Oprah.
And virtually every man on the planet of several generations still fondly recalls the Bulls, outside of soccer teams, maybe still the most iconic sports team ever to come out of America.
Then there is the whole Al Capone gangster thing, buttressed by the global success of Chicago (the musical/movie). The closest thing SF might have is the 60's but believe it or not, that era is not nearly as widely known outside America as one may think. It certainly doesn't translate to global box office receipts like a gangster movie set in Prohibition era Chicago does (Untouchables).
And finally, not that I am a big fan of the guy, but Obama continues to be a rather iconic figure worldwide and is widely known to be from Chicago.
I have said this a few times on this forum, Chicago is somewhat unique in that it is more important / iconic / cultural / noticeable / etc within it's country's own borders than it is in the rest of the world - and SF is the opposite.
That doesn't jive with my experiences. I find they're about equal for the most part in terms of recognition abroad.
As a 20 plus year American expat having lived in 7 countries....I have to disagree. Go to clubs in Europe and most people know that house music, which continues to dominate club music worldwide is from Chicago. And of course Chicago is more closesly assciated in the world's mind with American iconic musical genres such as Jazz and the Blues.
I have seen clubs, bars and restaurants named Chicago in countless dozens of cities all over Asia and Europe, one rarely sees establishments named San Francisco.
And virtually every woman of a certain age I've met in many countries is very very aware of Chicago through Oprah.
And virtually every man on the planet of several generations still fondly recalls the Bulls, outside of soccer teams, maybe still the most iconic sports team ever to come out of America.
Then there is the whole Al Capone gangster thing, buttressed by the global success of Chicago (the musical/movie). The closest thing SF might have is the 60's but believe it or not, that era is not nearly as widely known outside America as one may think. It certainly doesn't translate to global box office receipts like a gangster movie set in Prohibition era Chicago does (Untouchables).
And finally, not that I am a big fan of the guy, but Obama continues to be a rather iconic figure worldwide and is widely known to be from Chicago.
That whole post is a bit of a straw man as I never said no one in Europe (or Asia, which is not the whole world btw) has heard of Chicago or that Chicago hasn't exported certain cultural aspects..
Anyways, I've read many threads regarding this topic on this forum and what feels like an overwhelming amount of the posts talking about Chicago's global footprint seem to mention the Bulls and gangsters... And not just mention them in passing, but as some of their chief exports.. Honestly I couldn't think of two worse examples for a thread like this. If that is what is passing as iconic and cultural these days.. I feel like those comments are doing a disservice to Chicago in regards to the topic at hand.
Saying things like "virtually every woman / man" is too hyperbolic for me to take seriously also. You also said "I have seen clubs, bars and restaurants named Chicago in countless dozens of cities all over Asia and Europe, one rarely sees establishments named San Francisco." which is just silly. Countless dozens of cities? All over both continents? Do you even know what that means? Honestly I don't keep track of establishments named San Francisco overseas but even if there are significantly more establishments named Chicago, I would wager that coming across one is still pretty freakin rare in the grand scheme of things lol...
EDIT: Anyways, I spend half of every year in Mexico, Central & South America for work so that is the main extent of my knowledge on this topic but I have also been to Europe a handful of times, Australia & Asia once and Africa for ~2 years off and on. But I would by no means ever say that 'everyone has heard of this and this is more popular than that is over here' and things of that nature. It's just a ridiculous premise that does not interest me.
Last edited by RadicalAtheist; 04-07-2014 at 11:57 PM..
You have proven nothing. I was piggy-backing off of something Orzo had said earlier (re: SF's wall-to-wall density) and in a concurrent thread comparing SF to other cities, so it made sense he would reply. Nice try, though, although I'd recommend you stop hijacking this thread.
I can prove hes orzo bro. 1 year ago he was arguing Duderino with his relegate account and accidentally signed in and responded with orzo. Duderino quotes Relegate but his orzo accounts 1st post in thread quotes Duderino saying 'I was talking about'. He does this in every thread has 30 40 accounts. Plays good cop bad cop bro.
San Francisco from the part of the world I'm from. I think Chicago and San Francisco should be equal in Western Europe, Chicago would easily lead Eastern Europe and San Francisco would more than likely take Russia. Middle-East they are an absolute tie, I don't get how and why but the two cities are popular in different realms. The Persian world is under San Francisco and the Arab world is under Chicago. Israel would easily be a draw. Central America would go to San Francisco and Caribbean America looks poised for Chicago. Mexico is probably Chicago (slightly so) and South America is San Francisco probably. South India is easily San Francisco but North India is easily Chicago. China and East Asia are San Francisco whereas Africa as a whole (Northern and Subsaharan) is handily Chicago. I'm using linguistics and demographics and air routes and patterns though, so not exactly scientific. North America, I feel this is Chicago's domain.
Let's do this continent by continent. I'm not an expert, so if anyone wants to correct, please feel free.
Last edited by Trafalgar Law; 04-08-2014 at 12:13 AM..
That doesn't jive with my experiences. I find they're about equal for the most part in terms of recognition abroad.
Yes I didn't have the time to explain in more detail or better when I posted that. I didn't necessarily mean SF is more recognizable, I just meant that generally it seems to me that Americans consider CHI a tier above SF but that worldwide it seems like a different (or closer) story.
LOL, that is kind of suspect. Orzo's response seems to come out of nowhere.
LOL I wonder if you're "Hey Orzo". There was nothing out of nowhere about that response. There were multiple threads at that time with SF and Philly boosters happening concurrently. Orzo made the wall-to-wall density arguments several times in a bunch of threads and I was riffing off his comments. I can't speak for him but it makes sense to me that he would respond to that since he was active in all those threads making similar points. In any case, feel free to believe what you'd like to believe.
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