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Old 04-13-2014, 02:35 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
4,318 posts, read 4,839,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red John View Post
Meant to type Oracle, since like SAP it's enterprise software. Was thinking Java versus Python, mismatched them.

Python is a late bloomer, but I'm pretty sure it's going to cut into Java's market. C++ is a low level language (useful skill nonetheless), so Java never had any direct competition until now that Python's developing more rapidly. It's easier to run and it's development on Syntax is less complex (no curly braces like Java and other languages).

Both SAP's FiCO and the Technical divisions smash anything in Oracle though. Have you used Oracle's services, namely PeopleSoft? Horrendously inferior quality service management program.

I like Python a lot myself. But I do think Python is more of a scripting language, although I know a lot of people use Python for larger scale applications. Still, Python really doesn't have the maturity of Java's stand library right now. Sure there are some pretty fanatic Pythonistas out there, but I still think Python is not looked at as a serious enterprise solution at this point. I still like Python for automation and scripting, but most companies will always stick with Java for real enterprise solutions.
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
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I am a software engineering/computer scientist with a degree in Computer Science. It really depends on what you want to go into. From my perspective, if you aren't finding work anywhere in CA (SoCal or NorCal), then I would try places like Seattle, Boston and NYC first. Then DC, Philadelphia, and Chicago second, and maybe places like Austin or Atlanta, and maybe Portland. Smaller places like Minneapolis of course have it.

Everywhere has it but it really depends on what you're going into. I'll speak about Chicago since this is where I do my work. There are a ton of tech people here doing consulting work for various sized companies, very small to very very big. This could range from SAP/Oracle type of consulting to software/web/mobile development consulting. Because of that, it's not as much in the open, but there's a lot of tech people in the city. There is a very fast growing start-up community too which raised about $1 Billion last year and at one point had a new start-up getting founded every 24 hours (this still might be true).

This reality is no different than in a large city like NYC and Philadelphia to a smaller extent. In places like Seattle and Boston, that stuff exists of course but the more non-consulting firms are more out in the open just like in the Bay Area. Depending on what you want to do though, look in Seattle, Boston, and NYC areas first and then if that doesn't work try DC, Chicago, and Philadelphia. etc. Since you don't have tons of work experience, the best thing to do is do a bunch of personal projects that you can show off and always keep up with the info in the field. It will do more than just show you know the stuff.

Last edited by marothisu; 04-13-2014 at 09:55 AM..
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Old 04-13-2014, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,479 posts, read 7,726,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
I like Python a lot myself. But I do think Python is more of a scripting language, although I know a lot of people use Python for larger scale applications. Still, Python really doesn't have the maturity of Java's stand library right now. Sure there are some pretty fanatic Pythonistas out there, but I still think Python is not looked at as a serious enterprise solution at this point. I still like Python for automation and scripting, but most companies will always stick with Java for real enterprise solutions.
Java is much like Microsoft Windows, whereas Python is like Apple's OSX.

Java, like Windows is widespread and used by 90% of the world's market because it's infinitely easier to code and translate code on Windows than it is on OSX. Every technology company (the programming ones) that run Oracle, SAP, Sequel Server, Visual Basic, so on will encourage and provide you with Windows (it's realistically the only and right way to program as of now), because it's an easier path, there are some programs/languages that you cant even use on OSX. It's market share is limited and excels for entertainment (OSX).

At the end of the day, OSX is better quality operating system than Windows, for the features it provides and the user friendliness and durability. It's much more secure, you cant get hacked on it (as easily as Windows, LOL), security is their big leg up. That and frankly since XP, Windows has been a bottom of the barrel operating system, completely lost it's mojo, although Windows 8 is pretty okay and redeeming compared to the nonsense before it. Though at the end of the day, OSX (as an operating system), like Python (as a programming language), is only a marginal percentage of the world's market. I don't even think it has Linux beat. Good/high quality things will always be a minority, for everything it seems, because they are more exclusive.

Java is a more complex language than Python but Python's user friendliness (like OSX's user friendliness over Windows) as well as unique Syntax set up makes it the more efficient programming language. When the world comes to that realization, I hope to see less Java and more of a balance with all the other programming languages.

I don't have anything against Java, first language I learned, but when Python can work all it's bugs and become more compatible with all programs (it's streaky right now), then I expect it to start cutting into Java's market and to do it rapidly at that.

Last edited by Facts Kill Rhetoric; 04-13-2014 at 10:52 AM..
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Old 04-13-2014, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,304 posts, read 17,953,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red John View Post
At the end of the day, OSX is better quality operating system than Windows. It's much more secure, you cant get hacked on it, security is their big leg up.
Common misconception about OSX. You can easily write a virus on OSX or malicious code. I could easily write a fork bomb and give it to you and OSX would never catch it before it's too late (at least in the past - I don't know if they've created anything to prevent this from happening). The difference is that market share for OSX is still small compared to Windows. If you're going to write something, would you rather it affect 85% of people or 10% of people? Most people will choose the 85% of people. As it gains more market share, we will see more and more vulnerabilities. Trust me on this. I do agree that OSX is less vulnerable and more secure, but it's not completely secure. As complex as Operating Systems are, we'll probably never have one that is completely secure.

Quote:
Java is a more complex language than Python but Python's user friendliness (like OSX's user friendliness over Windows) as well as unique Syntax set up makes it the more efficient programming language. When the world comes to that realization, I hope to see less Java and more of a balance with all the other programming languages.
I think you meant efficient programming style much like Ruby. Actually the use of syntactic sugar will slow a both an interpreter and compiler down usually. There's a reason why a lower level language like C is still used for many extremely time-sensitive operations such as high volume trading. Don't confuse readability with efficiency. They're two different things and just because something is readable doesn't mean it's necessarily faster than another language which is less readable. Ruby is a beautiful language to write in, but it doesn't make it more efficient and even thread-safe than other langauges out there.
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Old 04-13-2014, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,479 posts, read 7,726,682 times
Reputation: 7299
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
I am a software engineering/computer scientist with a degree in Computer Science. It really depends on what you want to go into. From my perspective, if you aren't finding work anywhere in CA (SoCal or NorCal), then I would try places like Seattle, Boston and NYC first. Then DC, Philadelphia, and Chicago second, and maybe places like Austin or Atlanta, and maybe Portland. Smaller places like Minneapolis of course have it.

Everywhere has it but it really depends on what you're going into. I'll speak about Chicago since this is where I do my work. There are a ton of tech people here doing consulting work for various sized companies, very small to very very big. This could range from SAP/Oracle type of consulting to software/web/mobile development consulting. Because of that, it's not as much in the open, but there's a lot of tech people in the city. There is a very fast growing start-up community too which raised about $1 Billion last year and at one point had a new start-up getting founded every 24 hours (this still might be true).

This reality is no different than in a large city like NYC and Philadelphia to a smaller extent. In places like Seattle and Boston, that stuff exists of course but the more non-consulting firms are more out in the open just like in the Bay Area. Depending on what you want to do though, look in Seattle, Boston, and NYC areas first and then if that doesn't work try DC, Chicago, and Philadelphia. etc. Since you don't have tons of work experience, the best thing to do is do a bunch of personal projects that you can show off and always keep up with the info in the field. It will do more than just show you know the stuff.
I think Chicago is the most balanced tech market (most balanced everything really) in the country. It offers the best balance between software/hardware development, Venture Capitalism/Start-ups/Angel Investment, coding, and programming because it has a strong financial industry (collaborative), strong logistics industry (collaborative), strong everything while not having a number one.

There's not only an abundance of positions (open) for SAP/Oracle in Chicago but for coding program languages (C, C++, Java, Python, Ruby, so on), as well as project development (innovation, Google, so on), software design, and hardware design.

It has it all. Philadelphia and New York so far are aces, top heavy in programming (SAP in particular), New York has a solid branch in hardware (thank you IBM) and software design but this field feels completely monopolized by the San Francisco Bay Area, and what's left is gobbled up by Seattle and Austin. The three (especially for their sizes) then take City-Data's darling tech topic (as if all people in tech open start-ups or are Venture Capitalists, LOL.) of Angel Investment/Venture Capitalism/Start-up.

Chicago's probably the most balanced tech market, because as a rule, there isn't any field in "tech" that it lags in disproportionately. To boot, it's becoming a more prominent place for start-ups as it is.
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Old 04-13-2014, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,304 posts, read 17,953,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red John View Post
I think Chicago is the most balanced tech market (most balanced everything really) in the country. It offers the best balance between software/hardware development, Venture Capitalism/Start-ups/Angel Investment, coding, and programming because it has a strong financial industry (collaborative), strong logistics industry (collaborative), strong everything while not having a number one.

There's not only an abundance of positions (open) for SAP/Oracle in Chicago but for coding program languages (C, C++, Java, Python, Ruby, so on), as well as project development (innovation, Google, so on), software design, and hardware design.

It has it all. Philadelphia and New York so far are aces, top heavy in programming (SAP in particular), New York has a decent branch in hardware (thank you IBM) and software design but this field is completely monopolized by the San Francisco Bay Area, and what's left is gobbled up by Seattle and Austin. The three (especially for their sizes) then take City-Data's darling tech topic (as if all people in tech open start-ups, LOL. Minority amounts do) of Angel Investment/Venture Capitalism/Start-up.

Chicago's probably the most balanced tech market, because as a rule, there isn't any field in "tech" that it lags in disproportionately. To boot, it's becoming a more prominent place for start-ups as it is.
It can certainly be that way. There is a lot available in Chicago for various types of tech but it's in the background of other cities because there's a lot of consulting going on, which companies pay a lot of money to keep quiet that they hired an outside firm to do anything.

IBM is moving away from hardware and has been for awhile. PC Division to Lenovo, Printers a long time ago , and most recently a few series of servers/Mainframe to Lenovo. Still has other servers and mainframes, but those are actually moreso based on areas like North Carolina, Minnesota, San Jose, Colorado, and Vermont. Most of that NYC presence is consulting just like it is in Chicago, and the new Watson group of course.
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Old 04-13-2014, 11:30 AM
 
Location: In the heights
20,175 posts, read 21,784,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
I am a software engineering/computer scientist with a degree in Computer Science. It really depends on what you want to go into. From my perspective, if you aren't finding work anywhere in CA (SoCal or NorCal), then I would try places like Seattle, Boston and NYC first. Then DC, Philadelphia, and Chicago second, and maybe places like Austin or Atlanta, and maybe Portland. Smaller places like Minneapolis of course have it.

Everywhere has it but it really depends on what you're going into. I'll speak about Chicago since this is where I do my work. There are a ton of tech people here doing consulting work for various sized companies, very small to very very big. This could range from SAP/Oracle type of consulting to software/web/mobile development consulting. Because of that, it's not as much in the open, but there's a lot of tech people in the city. There is a very fast growing start-up community too which raised about $1 Billion last year and at one point had a new start-up getting founded every 24 hours (this still might be true).

This reality is no different than in a large city like NYC and Philadelphia to a smaller extent. In places like Seattle and Boston, that stuff exists of course but the more non-consulting firms are more out in the open just like in the Bay Area. Depending on what you want to do though, look in Seattle, Boston, and NYC areas first and then if that doesn't work try DC, Chicago, and Philadelphia. etc. Since you don't have tons of work experience, the best thing to do is do a bunch of personal projects that you can show off and always keep up with the info in the field. It will do more than just show you know the stuff.
That bold'd part is key.

Probably helps for the OP to state what IT/CS she knows and has experience with and what she wants to pursue. A general "I do computers" is harder to place.
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Old 04-13-2014, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,304 posts, read 17,953,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
That bold'd part is key.
Yeah, when I interview people and they have a big gap of employment and haven't done anything in between, it's almost an automatic no. There have been people to do things in between, showing their passion and knowledge, and then it's definitely not a no right away.
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Old 04-13-2014, 04:20 PM
 
1,112 posts, read 805,432 times
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Hey thanks for all your input. It has been mentioned me before from a coworker to start a portfolio and place some coding projects on GitHub. I really feel having some tangible work to show for will go a long way.

I am looking at a couple of entry-level options but it will mean relocation out to the middle of nowhere while I build some experience. My main focuses are in Java, SQL and Ruby. But I am looking to suggestions on where possibly should I focus right now?

I prefer software development, and a side interest of mine is data mining and modeling. I have a statistics background and this has always interested me. But data mining is somewhat of a new field, and those positions seem to be available mainly for PhD graduates. I cannot commit another four years of my life to more education only to perhaps still end up unemployed anyway.

I am open to all your suggestions and ideas of a possible focus in my career.
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Old 04-13-2014, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,479 posts, read 7,726,682 times
Reputation: 7299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabber_wocky View Post
I am willing to work contract, but the idea of constantly traveling frightens me a bit. A friend of mine works contracts and it appears cut-throat.
No worries. If you can do living in other cities, do contract.

Your company (if it's similar to Celanese, Bering Point, Accenture, Wipro, Royal Dutch Shell, Raytheon) will pay for your travel expenses, living expenses, food and grocery expenses, cellular phone bills, limousine, rentals (if you're old enough), the technology you use will be provided. Friday's are always off, no work (so a full 3.5 day weekend, every week). If you're on an international project, you'll receive between two to three months of vacation, you'll get your hotel and airline mileage, and they'll pay you to take vacations in any city in the world of your choosing. Yes, even for new entry/starters, if you can land with a company like Bering Point or Accenture. Given your qualifications, you'll fit right into those companies (and others like it) as it is, several divisions, including Java and Sequel.

Traveling is only for those that want to go home every weekend, you don't have to do it, it's just a nice way to live if you're not vested in relocating to a new city.

You'll easily find work if you're willing to do contract and being as young as you are (I'm in my early middle-20's myself), you'll be in a great position to network, socialize, work with project teams from other companies, and in general get out and see the world a bit in your spare time (barring you don't have wife and kids of course). Meet people from every corner of the planet and develop your skill set along the way.

Last edited by Facts Kill Rhetoric; 04-13-2014 at 04:39 PM..
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