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View Poll Results: Best city by design?
Toronto 25 19.38%
Chicago 44 34.11%
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:29 PM
 
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Rules

-no parking lots

-uninterrupted street wall for entire neighborhood

-no standalone buildings in the entire neighborhood
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,304 posts, read 17,958,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
Rules

-no parking lots

-uninterrupted street wall for entire neighborhoo a

-no standalone buildings in the entire neighborhood


First of all, there's no true parking lots right around Wrigley Field. Anybody who has to drive has to go blocks out and find small parking lots scattered all over the park in and then walk. The one "lot" you see next to it is actually for a plaza. For example, there's a skating rink put there in the fall/winter. The Mcdonald's there is an anomaly, as you can see (because it's obvious you haven't explored the neighborhood).

No parking lots, like this in DC a few blocks from the Verizon Center? http://goo.gl/maps/GG7K5
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post


First of all, there's no true parking lots right around Wrigley Field. Anybody who has to drive has to go blocks out and find small parking lots scattered all over the park in and then walk. The one "lot" you see next to it is actually for a plaza. For example, there's a skating rink put there in the fall/winter. The Mcdonald's there is an anomaly, as you can see (because it's obvious you haven't explored the neighborhood).

No parking lots, like this in DC a few blocks from the Verizon Center? http://goo.gl/maps/GG7K5
There is an office building under construction there right now. Either way, this is pointless because rowhouses aren't urban like buildings. Is Wrigley urban like the loop to you at street level?
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Southern California
3,455 posts, read 7,093,633 times
Reputation: 1406
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
The area around Verizon Center is more urban though, its literally right in the middle of the city. Wrigley is a little bit out there in a lower density neighborhood. Wrigley has a suburban style MacDonald's and Taco Bell across the street with drive-thru's lol.
Wrigley is in a dense urban residential/mixed use area (notice all the bars?)

Urban doesn't just mean "tall office buildings" unless you are making up your own definitions of urban.

Anyway, its not just Wrigley in Chicago...

Soldier Field is in the south downtown area, and the United Center is west of the loop in a not so good neighborhood (well it wasn't, it might be better now its been awhile since I've been there).

I don't know all of the sports venues but there are a few more...hockey, White Sox etc. It's not really my thing.

But some of them like Soldier Field are fitting your chosen description a bit more.

though the OP probably doesn't care that much if he already knows the Chicago area layout.
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Southern California
3,455 posts, read 7,093,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
A rowhouse will NEVER be as urban as a commercial building. It's not close. Nothing about their building codes or structures have anything in common. DuPont Circle is not even close to as urban as Penn Quarter. It's just not. A 14 story building against a rowhouse? What is going on here?
getting a LITTLE bit carried away with definitions here. This is not the definition of urban at all (high rise, concrete).

So, perhaps you would all get a little less upset by acknowledging one is in a tightly packed area with buildings that have more stories.

One is in an urban area as well, which is a little bit further from the CBD of the principal city and has mixed use areas, is primarily residential outside the commercial areas for dining, sport.

lol. relax people. but seriously, learn what these terms actually mean.
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Southern California
3,455 posts, read 7,093,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
There is an office building under construction there right now. Either way, this is pointless because rowhouses aren't urban like buildings. Is Wrigley urban like the loop to you at street level?
yes:

Definition: Urban and Rural

Urban and Rural


Prior to Census 2000, urban referred to all territory, population, and housing units located in places with a population of 2,500 or more. With Census 2000, the definition changed.

After the 2000 census was taken, the Census Bureau’s geographers looked at every block in the nation and decided if it was or was not urban. There are very specific criteria about whether a block could be labeled urban. Land use patterns in American can be complicated and the rules for deciding “urban-ness” take into account many kinds of situations. They generally have to do with density of settlement and proximity to other urban blocks.

For Census 2000, urban territory, population, and housing units belong within urbanized areas (UA) or urban clusters (UC). UA and UC boundaries consist of
##core census block groups or blocks that have a population density of at least 1,000 people per square mile, and
##surrounding census blocks that have an overall density of at least 500 people per square mile
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:51 PM
 
9,592 posts, read 10,935,631 times
Reputation: 2128
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgb123 View Post
getting a LITTLE bit carried away with definitions here. This is not the definition of urban at all (high rise, concrete).

So, perhaps you would all get a little less upset by acknowledging one is in a tightly packed area with buildings that have more stories.

One is in an urban area as well, which is a little bit further from the CBD of the principal city and has mixed use areas, is primarily residential outside the commercial areas for dining, sport.

lol. relax people. but seriously, learn what these terms actually mean.
I just don't think rowhouses are that urban. In my opinion, to get the most urban built environment, every single building in a city would be a highrise with underground parking or no parking at all with first floor retail and a lobby entrance with elevators. There would be no breaks between buildings and every building would come right up to the street.
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:54 PM
 
9,592 posts, read 10,935,631 times
Reputation: 2128
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgb123 View Post
yes:

Definition: Urban and Rural

Urban and Rural


Prior to Census 2000, urban referred to all territory, population, and housing units located in places with a population of 2,500 or more. With Census 2000, the definition changed.

After the 2000 census was taken, the Census Bureau’s geographers looked at every block in the nation and decided if it was or was not urban. There are very specific criteria about whether a block could be labeled urban. Land use patterns in American can be complicated and the rules for deciding “urban-ness” take into account many kinds of situations. They generally have to do with density of settlement and proximity to other urban blocks.

For Census 2000, urban territory, population, and housing units belong within urbanized areas (UA) or urban clusters (UC). UA and UC boundaries consist of
##core census block groups or blocks that have a population density of at least 1,000 people per square mile, and
##surrounding census blocks that have an overall density of at least 500 people per square mile
Nobody is saying it's not urban. There are levels and intensities of urbanity. Gallery Place is way more intensely urban than the area around Wrigley Field just like the Loop is more intensely urban than the area around Wrigley field.
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:26 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
15,404 posts, read 24,419,152 times
Reputation: 8775
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Let me show you how I interpret this:



You're comparing "literally right in the middle of the city" to saying "Wrigley is a little bit out there in a lower density neighborhood."

1) No, it's not a little bit out there. It's right in the middle of the city. Wrigley Field is 5.5 miles south of the closest suburb and 9 miles east of the closest suburb in that direction. It's also 20 miles north of the nearest southern suburb to it.
Like I already said, when I say "middle of the city" I'm referrring to the downtown/CBD area of the city and not everything in the city limits. So in the case of Chicago that would be The Loop/River North for which Wrigleyville is about 4-5 miles north of no?

I guess you must have some huge definition as far as area goes of what constitutes the "middle of the city".

Quote:
2) The connotation for "lower density neighborhood" on here to most means population density. You didn't even specify the type of density. So do you blame me for thinking you meant population density? It was only after I showed you that the area around Wrigley Field is more population dense than the area around Verizon Center that you tell me that you meant building density.

The neighborhood it's in is 30,000 people per sq mile overall, which is just as much as the area that River North, Streeterville, and Gold Coast sit in downtown.

Sorry, but if you say "lower density neighborhood", almost all people on this forum will think you are talking about population density. Next time - define what you mean beforehand and I think it was still a CYA after you saw the hard data.
And how exactly do you interpret "more urban" then? Either way I'm not sure how much it matters since after I clarified what I meant you still kept arguing that it was just as or even more urban.
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:29 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
15,404 posts, read 24,419,152 times
Reputation: 8775
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgb123 View Post
Wrigley is in a dense urban residential/mixed use area (notice all the bars?)
Did anyone ever claim otherwise?

Quote:
Urban doesn't just mean "tall office buildings" unless you are making up your own definitions of urban.
Okay, again did I ever define "urban" or claim Wrigleyville wasn't such?

Quote:
Anyway, its not just Wrigley in Chicago...

Soldier Field is in the south downtown area, and the United Center is west of the loop in a not so good neighborhood (well it wasn't, it might be better now its been awhile since I've been there).

I don't know all of the sports venues but there are a few more...hockey, White Sox etc. It's not really my thing.

But some of them like Soldier Field are fitting your chosen description a bit more.

though the OP probably doesn't care that much if he already knows the Chicago area layout.
All the other sports venues in Chicago and DC are in less urban parts of the city and not as well integrated into the surroundings/city which is why I specifically focused on one's that were.
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