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First off, I love how you personally attack me because I disagree with you about Cleveland. Very classy, as well as mature.
This is coming from the guy who said, "what is a ghetto?" Then assumed by me saying a "ghetto downtown" that I was being racist. Which ironically in of itself seems awful racist to me. After all, why would you assume that as being racist, if only you were thinking the term "ghetto" as only being a racist term? In which you are using your definition of the word instead of mine, hence your idea must be the racist idea. By the way good try in trying to diminish anything I had to say, by trying to out me as a racist, simply for using the term "ghetto". I guess anyone who uses that term must be a racist. Very classy way of trying to erase my points by shifting it to your fairy tale land of racism. Did you honestly think that you were clever? There's a word for people like you, but I would get in trouble if I used it.
As for Beavercreek33,
You can hissy fit all you want, but your opinion doesn't change mine.
Also, nice way of debating. I see if all else fails, you Cleveland supporters resort to name calling and bashing. Very impressed.
I also love your hypocritical views,
Let's see,
You said, "Cleveland has so many more world class attractions than Buffalo, its not even funny. Buffalo doesn't even have any. Niagara Falls is not Buffalo. Buffalo's downtown is dead compared to Cleveland's. Cleveland is home to way many more fortune 500 companies than Buffalo, does Buffalo even have any?"
First off, you contadict yourself and expose yourself as a hypocrate. You do know that Niagara Falls is in Buffalo's metro. Do you know it takes 12 minutes to get to Niagara falls from Buffalo.
You said, "Cleveland's park system blows Buffalo out of the water, in fact not only is the MetroParks system in Cleveland awesome, but Cleveland has a national park 30 minutes from Downtown, Buffalo can't even compete."
This is were you expose yourself as a hypocrite. I guess Buffalo can't claim Niagara falls since it is not directly in the city but still 12 minutes away. Yet, Cleveland can sure claim a national park which is 30 minutes from downtown. Hmm, I guess you make your own rules up.
You said, "Buffalo Bills have a great stadium. Not! The 70s called and they want their stadium back!"
First off, what does age have to do with a stadium being good or not? Secondly, I don't remember ever bringing up the Bills' stadium. But I guess some people will resort to anything while debating. Once again, nice showmanship of maturity.
You said, "Universities, Buffalo is better? LMAO, ya ok!"
You can laugh all day. I think it is! Just because you say otherwise, doesn't make you right. Who are you the authority of cities?
You said, "Buffalo has nothing like East 4th Street as far as a bar scene goes.
LOL "artsy" things. Cleveland has one of the best art museums in the world, why don't you go out and do some research on Cleveland."
Your right Buffalo has nothing like East 4th street as far as bar scenes go. They only have Chippewa street, Hertel ave, Elmwood strip, Allentown, Downtown, as well as thousands of bars within Buffalo's neighborhood. As far as Art museums, did you ever hear of the Albright Knox Gallery. This is a world class art museum. Did you think only Cleveland has museums.
You said, "Cleveland has one of the best Little Italy's in the country, and the food scene in Cleveland is much better. Does Buffalo have anything like Westside Market???" (by the way, I got your first question mark, but you can use five if it helps!)
Are you serious? Buffalo has Italian areas as well. Hertel ave area is full of Italians and Italian restaurants. One of Buffalo's biggest immigrant population is Italians. Now your trying to say that Cleveland has better food because of some market. Buffalo has plenty of markets. Did you think we were country. Better food than Buffalo. You must be kidding. This is a good statement to show that you'll argue everything is better in Cleveland. Very subjective. You really should be a judge.
You said, "Are you serious on downtowns? Cleveland has over 120,000 people come to work downtown everyday. It was named Brookings Institute best emerging downtown with a downtown growth rate of 32.5%. Awesome projects like the Avenue District, Flats East Bank, East 4th Street, and the street projects in the Warehouse District. Not to mention the new convention center we will be getting. It will be one of the best in the nation when finished, and will extend from near Public Square down to the lakefront. It looks awesome, and it will include a medical mart to bring in even more international conventions. Oh, don't forget about the booming Uptown District of University Circle home to the Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals of Cleveland. Construction cranes everywhere."
Very nice. I am impressed. But almost all of that stuff that you just rambled off isn't even completed yet. I haven't been to Cleveland in a year. So I guess I just missed it. Buffalo does have many projects underway too you know. If your going by size, sure Cleveland wins. Congratulations. Going by your rationale, I guess Phoenix trumps Cleveland in everything since it is much bigger.
You said, "Cleveland's Downtown population is expected to be 20,000 by mid 2010. The Flats East Bank is a 500 million dollar new project that will be filled with restaurants, hotels, condos, parks, and shopping. The Avenue District phase one is done. The 11 story luxury condo tower has been topped out, and people are moving in. Now the streetscaping is being done"
You can look to my last paragraph for the answer to this paragraph as well.
You said, "Cleveland's economy is extremely diverse. We are a huge banking center, home to numerous world class medical facilities, great college system, and home to many corporate companies. Progressive ring a bell? Ever look on a one dollar bill and notice the federal reserve bank? Notice on the left hand side of the dollar you will see a black circle, and in the circle there is a city name, ya not too many cities have their name on those dollars, but Cleveland does. Thats because it is home to a federal reserve bank, Buffalo is not."
Tell me again why Cleveland's economy is so diverse. Wasn't Cleveland ranked either one or two for poorest cities a year and a half ago? Now I am not claiming to be Einstein or anything, but doesn't being a very poor city constitute a bad economy? Hmm, I guess facts don't really matter when debating you. What does your little rant about Cleveland being on a dollar bill have to do with anything? What do you want me to say to that, that solves it Cleveland has the best of everything. As far as you see it, Cleveland is a premiere city who would probably trump anyone.
You said, "Do research on Cleveland. Its a city that is very underrated. Kind of like Milwaukee, Baltimore, St. Louis and Pittsburgh"
I guess I don't need to do research on Cleveland, that's what you are here for. I can't imagine any research boosting Cleveland as much as yourself.
You said, "Cleveland is a bigger city, so that is why it has more. I am not trying to down play Buffalo because thats not what I do. But you are doing that to Cleveland, and I will put you in your place when it is needed. You know nothing about Cleveland, and it is very evident. You talk about Cleveland like you know it, but the way you talk about it, sounds like you have never even been there."
Noooo, of course not. You wouldn't ever attack Buffalo.
Last edited by supermanpansy; 08-02-2009 at 12:46 PM..
4. Cleveland's park system blows Buffalo out of the water, in fact not only is the MetroParks system in Cleveland awesome, but Cleveland has a national park 30 minutes from Downtown, Buffalo can't even compete.
ok, the olmstead parks system is one of the best in the country if not the best.
you wanna talk about nature parks? within a 30 minute drive you got niagara falls, zoar valley, Letchworth state park.
in the city there is a nature reserve right on the waterfront called Tifft Farms, awesome place to get away.
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3. Buffalo has nothing like East 4th Street as far as a bar scene goes.
LOL "artsy" things. Cleveland has one of the best art museums in the world, why don't you go out and do some research on Cleveland.
depends on what bars you mean. with nightclubs you probably have more (even though there are nightclubs on chippewa, elmwood, delaware, and in allentown). but with small blue collar bars where you go to have a few beers after a long day of work, its Buffalo by a landslide. South Buffalo practically has a bar on every corner, the ethnic neighborhoods in the city have bars all over the place, before it became a ghetto broadway was where all the bars were pretty much, there would be bars in the middle of a small side street.
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5. Cleveland has one of the best Little Italy's in the country, and the food scene in Cleveland is much better. Does Buffalo have anything like Westside Market???
you kidding me? Hertle Avenue, Lovejoy, and parts of the Westside. The Hooks(where the aud used to be) was one of the most famous italian-american neighborhoods in the country before they knocked it down. the Sorrento Italian Festival is one of the largest street festivals in the country. there is even a movie about the history of Italians in Buffalo called La Terra Promessa(The Promised Land)
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Notice on the left hand side of the dollar you will see a black circle, and in the circle there is a city name, ya not too many cities have their name on those dollars, but Cleveland does. Thats because it is home to a federal reserve bank, Buffalo is not.
ever hear why The Nickle City is one of our nicknames? the Buffalo nickles way back in the day so yea, one of our city nicknames was about currency.
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The 11 story luxury condo tower has been topped out, and people are moving in. Now the streetscaping is being done.
Waterfront Place? ever hear of it?
The Avant mixed use hotel, office space and residencies, ever hear of it?
so yea, we have large condo buildings too being built, not to mention 33 Gates Circle coming soon, the old Dulski Federal Building being transformed into a condo/office space building
^^ You can get to the Metroparks wthin minutes from Downtown Cleveland, not 30 minutes.
Anyone who has been to both cities and explored the ares knows Cleveland is superior. I'm not even sure about some of Buffalo's arguments.. Like more bars than Cleveland? LOL! The suburb of Lakewood alone has 122 bars (city is 5 sq miles).
Don't get me wrong, Buffalo is a cool city. I just don't think people actually know what Cleveland actually has to offer. It has the amenities and cultural institutions of cities with 1 million plus people. It's a shame that the media portrays the city as boring with little to nothing to do, when it's almost the complete opposite.
Not to mention the suburbs of Cleveland (in the MSA about 1.8 million people live in the suburbs). Like Rocky River for instance:
There are easily 15+ suburbs just as beautiful and unique in their own way. But again, people don't see that. They see an article about high crime or foreclosures within the inner city.
I just got back from Cleveland on a Saturday morning and I gotta say...
WHAT THE HECK. I've never seen a more abandoned city in my life. It's grittier than Buffalo. The only good part I saw was the waterfront and the hospitals looked pretty cool. Coventry was busier! I also went to the Harry Buffalo (who's wings dont compare to DUFFS! in buffalo)
I'm going with Buffalo after visiting Cleveland for the weekend hands down. Better sports fans, better city, more life, more of a bar/club scene, and Canada. Buffalo easily.
I just got back from Cleveland on a Saturday morning and I gotta say...
WHAT THE HECK. I've never seen a more abandoned city in my life. It's grittier than Buffalo. The only good part I saw was the waterfront and the hospitals looked pretty cool. Coventry was busier! I also went to the Harry Buffalo (who's wings dont compare to DUFFS! in buffalo)
I'm going with Buffalo after visiting Cleveland for the weekend hands down. Better sports fans, better city, more life, more of a bar/club scene, and Canada. Buffalo easily.
Harry Buffalo's is practically a chain restaurant... no surprise there. The inner city of Cleveland has high vacancy rates Actually, Buffalo is around 9% if I do remember correctly and Cleveland is 10.1%.. But please don't think the whole area is like that. Only 450,000 people live in Cleveland compared to 2.8 million people in the CSA.
I'm interested into where you actually went? Sounds like a strange trip from hospitals to Coventry? Sounds like you only saw the poorer parts (the minority of the population) instead of 99% of the rest it has to offer.
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Northeast Ohio consists of 13 counties[1] and includes the cities of Cleveland, Akron, Canton, Lorain, Elyria, Medina, Ashtabula, Youngstown, and Warren. Northeast Ohio is home to approximately 4.5 million people, has a labor force of almost 2 million, and a gross regional product of more than US$134 billion.
Cleveland's Median Income: $26,50o, while the rest of the county is doubled. And Buffalo/Cleveland have nearly identical poverty rates.
And Buffalo's not nearly as diverse either. It's 87% white and around 12% black.
Northeast Ohio recently has seen the influx of 10,000 Asians and 20,000 increase in Hispanics. Not to mention the Middle Easterners and Europeans moving here. And what cities the size of Cleveland have a light-rail or as good as public transit system?
IMO, you can't compare Buffalo to Cleveland. Northeast Ohio is a LARGE population with much more. Buffalo is more akin to a smaller city.
And Buffalo's not nearly as diverse either. It's 87% white and around 12% black.
woa you're nuts
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from wikipedia
At the 2005-2007 American Community Survey Estimates, the city's population was 53.8% White (48.7% non-Hispanic White alone), 41.1% Black or African American, 1.2% American Indian and Alaska Native, 2.0% Asian, 4.5% from some other race and 2.5% from two or more races. 8.3% of the total population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.[28]
and for the heritages
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also from wikipedia
The top 5 largest ancestries include German (13.6%), Irish (12.2%), Italian (11.7%), Polish (11.7%), and English (4.0%).[29]
^^ You can get to the Metroparks wthin minutes from Downtown Cleveland, not 30 minutes.
Anyone who has been to both cities and explored the ares knows Cleveland is superior. I'm not even sure about some of Buffalo's arguments.. Like more bars than Cleveland? LOL! The suburb of Lakewood alone has 122 bars (city is 5 sq miles).
Don't get me wrong, Buffalo is a cool city. I just don't think people actually know what Cleveland actually has to offer. It has the amenities and cultural institutions of cities with 1 million plus people. It's a shame that the media portrays the city as boring with little to nothing to do, when it's almost the complete opposite.
Not to mention the suburbs of Cleveland (in the MSA about 1.8 million people live in the suburbs). Like Rocky River for instance:
There are easily 15+ suburbs just as beautiful and unique in their own way. But again, people don't see that. They see an article about high crime or foreclosures within the inner city.
First off including Akron (in my mind a whole other city) Cleveland's CSA (which is garbage in my mind) has 2.8. Discluding Akron, its like 2.2 in the metro. Buffalo if it could count its canadian population is more like 1.8 to 1.9 million.
The truth be told, Akron'ers don't even really like Cleveland'ers and would probably be ticked off by you putting them into Clevelands CSA. Heres a tip on understanding CSA. If a city has 2000 people coming from another city (for an example we'll use Cleveland and Akron) The good ole' powers to be from the "CSA" committie will count the whole damn metro area of Akron. Sounds like a joke right? It is a joke!
Secondly, that pic you showed almost looks identical to Hoyt lake in Delaware park. It is right next to the buffalo casino and Albright knox gallery. It's also right across the street from Buffalo state college..I wish I knew how to post pictures, I would show you.
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