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View Poll Results: Dallas vs. Houston
Dallas 127 64.80%
Houston 69 35.20%
Voters: 196. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-29-2014, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Austin/Houston
2,819 posts, read 4,255,539 times
Reputation: 2073

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lance View Post
This is BS! Name one drive in DFW that can compare to Memorial heading into DT Houston, or Main Street through Herman Park, or the 146 Bridge between Seabrook and Kemah or even Seawall Blvd in Galveston. You like many others have allowed yourselves to be bullied into making these subtle concessions in order to deflect flame away from yourself. I will not be bullied I promise you that.
I'm not being bullied at all. I was stating my opinion. Yes those areas you mention are special, and yes there are areas of Houston that are more gorgeous than just about anywhere in Dallas. But I'm talking about the overall inconsistent areas of nice that you can drive through without ghetto being around the corner. Dallas gives the impression of having more consistentcy in that regard, probably because its a smaller city and is able to tuck away the crummy areas a little better. OTOH, ITL Houston has improved drastically since I first moved down here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalparadise View Post
I think Central Expressway in Dallas is a pretty attractive freeway.
So is the Katy Freeway in Houston.
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Old 04-29-2014, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 4,109,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneclaw View Post



So is the Katy Freeway in Houston.
I personally don't like the looks of that one. It certainly isn't a model for eliminating clutter, in my opinion.
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Old 04-29-2014, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Northwest Houston
4,676 posts, read 4,525,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalparadise View Post
Oh, I understand what you are saying.

Memorial Drive is not a "freeway" though. It has stop lights. Plenty of freeways exist without feeders outside Texas. In those places, development happens in a more planned way, creating districts and neighborhoods, rather than linear stretches of growth.

When you push a lot of retail development up against a freeway, it's like declaring "this is for people passing through, not for residents." It looks cluttered and disorganized. It discourages walkable areas from growing up closer to residential areas, which are usually far away from freeways. It is a prime ingredient in sprawl.
Memorial Dr is a freeway for all intents and purposes, east of Detering, the last traffic light east of the park until DT a distance of approximately 3 miles or so. It was originally built as a freeway but was displaced in importance when I-10 was built just a couple miles north.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7614...OjGLpTFS9w!2e0

This is where the freeway portion either starts or stops according to your point of view.

But we agree that the basic point is that without feeder roads that clutter that Houston is known for would not exist along the freeways, but if you are going to have that clutter, the freeways are probably the best place for it.

Here again in a Dallas vs Houston thread the debate has become a debate about the lack of zoning in Houston. Does anybody believe that the posters who prefer Dallas are going to see the light and start preferring Houston if Houston would just adopt some form of zoning? I don't think so.
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Old 04-29-2014, 04:34 PM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
8,931 posts, read 11,377,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneclaw View Post
I'm not being bullied at all. I was stating my opinion. Yes those areas you mention are special, and yes there are areas of Houston that are more gorgeous than just about anywhere in Dallas. But I'm talking about the overall inconsistent areas of nice that you can drive through without ghetto being around the corner. Dallas gives the impression of having more consistentcy in that regard, probably because its a smaller city and is able to tuck away the crummy areas a little better. OTOH, ITL Houston has improved drastically since I first moved down here.



So is the Katy Freeway in Houston.
You really think so?
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Old 04-29-2014, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 4,109,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lance View Post
Memorial Dr is a freeway for all intents and purposes, east of Detering, the last traffic light east of the park until DT a distance of approximately 3 miles or so. It was originally built as a freeway but was displaced in importance when I-10 was built just a couple miles north.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7614...OjGLpTFS9w!2e0

This is where the freeway portion either starts or stops according to your point of view.

But we agree that the basic point is that without feeder roads that clutter that Houston is known for would not exist along the freeways, but if you are going to have that clutter, the freeways are probably the best place for it.

Here again in a Dallas vs Houston thread the debate has become a debate about the lack of zoning in Houston. Does anybody believe that the posters who prefer Dallas are going to see the light and start preferring Houston if Houston would just adopt some form of zoning? I don't think so.

For intents, perhaps, but not purposes. I am aware of the history of Memorial Dr. and lived, on two separate occasions, with a view of it near Memorial and Shepherd. It is not a freeway. Freeways are controlled access highways. Here's an entry point to Memorial from my old neighborhood:

http://goo.gl/maps/K2hxY
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Old 04-29-2014, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Northwest Houston
4,676 posts, read 4,525,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalparadise View Post
For intents, perhaps, but not purposes. I am aware of the history of Memorial Dr. and lived, on two separate occasions, with a view of it near Memorial and Shepherd. It is not a freeway. Freeways are controlled access highways. Here's an entry point to Memorial from my old neighborhood:

http://goo.gl/maps/K2hxY
Back to the point of the thread. Does anybody believe that zoning is the reason people choose to prefer Dallas over Houston in these discussions ? But somehow all these Houston vs whothehelleva threads always get into the zoning debate which is a Red Herring.
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Old 04-29-2014, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Austin/Houston
2,819 posts, read 4,255,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
You really think so?
You don't?

I think it's very nice how they did the freeway walls and planted the trees right up against them. Not to mention the new developments that have spawned along the corridor out to Memorial City Mall.
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Old 04-29-2014, 06:19 PM
 
1,039 posts, read 828,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneclaw View Post


So is the Katy Freeway in Houston.
Uh, I don't think so. Too wide. Part of the reason why the Central Expressway is attractive is that it's sunken, meaning that if I'm at North Park Mall, I don't see 75. I just look straight across at the buildings on the other side of the freeway. The retaining walls are also have a nice design (though not as good as Southwestern cities IMO), and it minimizes the noise coming from the traffic below. The Katy freeway is definitely one of the widest freeways in N. America, and there's no way to avoid looking at it.
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Old 04-29-2014, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
2,894 posts, read 4,145,230 times
Reputation: 1894
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneclaw View Post
I'm not being bullied at all. I was stating my opinion. Yes those areas you mention are special, and yes there are areas of Houston that are more gorgeous than just about anywhere in Dallas. But I'm talking about the overall inconsistent areas of nice that you can drive through without ghetto being around the corner. Dallas gives the impression of having more consistentcy in that regard, probably because its a smaller city and is able to tuck away the crummy areas a little better. OTOH, ITL Houston has improved drastically since I first moved down here.



So is the Katy Freeway in Houston.
I think the Katy is a newer freeway. I wouldn't call it attractive. When I've been on it, I just feel like it's a big sea of concrete with no character and that typical random Houston sprawl built up along it. The below grade section of 59/69 in Houston would have been a better example of a nice freeway in Houston. I even think 610 West is a lot more attractive of a freeway than the Katy.
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Old 04-29-2014, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Northwest Houston
4,676 posts, read 4,525,238 times
Reputation: 3856
Quote:
Originally Posted by R1070 View Post
I think the Katy is a newer freeway. I wouldn't call it attractive. When I've been on it, I just feel like it's a big sea of concrete with no character and that typical random Houston sprawl built up along it. The below grade section of 59/69 in Houston would have been a better example of a nice freeway in Houston. I even think 610 West is a lot more attractive of a freeway than the Katy.
The most attractive freeway in Houston is 288 south, but I'm afraid that once they put in those toll lanes in the median of that freeway that may disturb those aesthetics. We will see

P.S. I think we need to qualify this discussion these are attractive roads for being freeways....
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