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View Poll Results: San Jose or Oakland?
San Jose 14 46.67%
Oakland 16 53.33%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 04-21-2014, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 4,090,811 times
Reputation: 3145

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Quote:
Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
You're exactly what I was talking about, so thanks for checking in.
...and yet I offered no opinion on San Jose vs. Oakland, because I honestly haven't spent enough time in San Jose to form an opinion of it. So, how is that "exactly what you were talking about"?

For the record, I really like Oakland. I often BART over to meet my wife (who works in the East Bay) for dinner and/or drinks in Oakland or Berkeley. Love the vibe of the small portion of neighborhoods I have explored. I don't have a similar benchmark for San Jose, as I have only visited the downtown area twice.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:52 PM
 
Location: yeah
5,716 posts, read 14,228,683 times
Reputation: 2802
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalparadise View Post
...and yet I offered no opinion on San Jose vs. Oakland, because I honestly haven't spent enough time in San Jose to form an opinion of it. So, how is that "exactly what you were talking about"?
Sorry, I was just being flippant. You do seem to embody a certain dreamer mentality that many people bring to SF, perhaps enhanced by your life or upbringing in a very different environment elsewhere. I read your posts with very general naïvete resonating in my head, as a result. Again, sorry.

When you're already from a place that is not culturally too dissimilar in terms of liberalism that runs from Mendocino to Monterey, or integrated multiculturalism that rings the entire bay, the mythic lefty qualities that people from afar ascribe to SF do not stand out as much. The defining characteristics are, instead, social elitism and insular parochialism that sit beneath the loving façade. People from Oakland or SJ are not raised with a distaste for SF (outside a sporting context), it is an annoyance that grows with time and experience.

But the cycle of transplants dropping into SF, eagerly propagating regionalisms they think legitimize them as residents, continues.

Now time for rah to be mad at me for making distinctions that agree with his own.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:26 PM
 
375 posts, read 451,209 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
See, just as I was saying.

And "tourist trap" refers to a big chunk of SF that overshadows other parts of town, just the same as the rest of the region. See past debates on the word "Frisco" for insight into how the trends and views of some become the pervasive monoculture and groupthink.
I am sorry? My idea of exciting isn't shopping at Santana Row. A lot of SJ is suburban. I like dense and walkable environments. Sure there are a few in SJ. Generalizations can have an element of truth, and it is just my personal preference. Feel free to share yours. Jeez.

Last edited by Folks3000; 04-21-2014 at 01:44 PM..
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 4,090,811 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
Sorry, I was just being flippant. You do seem to embody a certain dreamer mentality that many people bring to SF, perhaps enhanced by your life or upbringing in a very different environment elsewhere. I read your posts with very general naïvete resonating in my head, as a result. Again, sorry.

When you're already from a place that is not culturally too dissimilar in terms of liberalism that runs from Mendocino to Monterey, or integrated multiculturalism that rings the entire bay, the mythic lefty qualities that people from afar ascribe to SF do not stand out as much. The defining characteristics are, instead, social elitism and insular parochialism that sit beneath the loving façade. People from Oakland or SJ are not raised with a distaste for SF (outside a sporting context), it is an annoyance that grows with time and experience.

But the cycle of transplants dropping into SF, eagerly propagating regionalisms they think legitimize them as residents, continues.

Now time for rah to be mad at me for making distinctions that agree with his own.
Apology accepted. Thank you.

I still think you are criticizing SF's "insular parochialism" within a provincial argument of your own. Doing so in a San Jose vs. Oakland context further amplifies this.

Do you honestly believe that no one could come to San Francisco and like what he found? Does not being born in a region automatically invalidate a person's attachment to or enthusiasm for it?

I have been here for 2.5 years. Before moving, I traveled here 7-8 times over the course of 20 years. I knew from the first trip (my first honeymoon) that I wanted to make the Bay Area home. On that first trip, my first destination was Berkeley. I wanted to check out the university, because it was where I had dreamed of going to school, but it was out of reach financially. Not exactly a naive transplant's mentality (and on a honeymoon at that) is it?

I wasn't transferred here. I don't work in tech. I didn't displace any families out of The Mission. My bike has, like 21 gears. I do vote Democratic and have participated in every vote in SF since moving here. I attend my neighborhood meetings on building proposals and streetscape changes too. I donate my services to a few local organizations, as well. I pick up trash in my neighborhood, recycle and compost, for what that's worth.

I quit my job and risked my marriage more than I realized to move here. I moved with a pedigree in my field that got a lot of SF doors slammed in my face. I applied to and would have accepted jobs on the Peninsula--almost got two of them, but no cigar. I still think I would have lived in SF and commuted, though. I even turned down a good offer in Sacramento--having to pack up my pride and all my belongings to go back to Texas. My mind and heart were set on SF.

When I got my offer in SF, I had to quickly sell my house and my car. I accepted a large pay cut and a demotion from my position in Texas. I left all my friends and family behind, alienating in-laws in the process and causing a further rift in my marriage. Why? Because I believed in SF and in my ability to quickly blow past those setbacks and grow my career and my wife's and my future (which I have done and then some, in a very short time). Is that naive? Or, is it the same story that California was built on over the past couple of hundred years?

I'm proud to call the Bay Area home - and especially happy to be in San Francisco. To me, the most naive thing about any of this is, for some reason, thinking I have to justify that sentiment to you on an Internet forum.

So, with all that said (and to keep things on topic) I guess I pick Oakland. <sigh>
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:31 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,112 posts, read 5,129,624 times
Reputation: 898
^^^Nice post and well said. You have my support, though because I, too, am a transplant (literally...got transplanted here and I'm not in tech either!), I'm illegitimate.
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Old 04-21-2014, 07:53 PM
 
1,462 posts, read 1,505,102 times
Reputation: 1019
Bunch of SF Jon Snow's in here. You will never be one of us!
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Miami Springs, Florida
225 posts, read 322,922 times
Reputation: 140
I like San Jose but it's soooo boooring
Oakland is vibrant and cool, and it's getting gentrificated
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Both coasts
1,580 posts, read 4,128,860 times
Reputation: 1437
There can be a 10-15 degree difference within 45 min radius between the two. I know someone who lives in the inner East Bay because the South Bay is too hot.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,479 posts, read 7,714,517 times
Reputation: 7295
San Jose and it's suburbs and satellite towns.

My favorite city is easily Palo Alto in the San Francisco Bay Area, it's where I would live with zero reservations if I had to ever live in Northern California. San Jose is close to that and for what it's worth and what it is, I actually do like San Jose. Not the most known city out there but easily one of the most financially responsible, well off and educated, and richest places places on planet Earth, and it shows big.

While maligned on this forum, I actually do like all the offerings in Downtown San Jose, much room for improvement of course but it has essentially all the things one could need.

The San Francisco Bay Area has three premier cities which are in turn surrounded by their own suburbs and satellite towns, honestly, aside from megacity stardom, the San Francisco Bay Area offers almost everything else. You can find a lifestyle for almost anyone in one of those three premier cities or it's suburbs, albeit cost of living not barring.

Last edited by Facts Kill Rhetoric; 04-23-2014 at 10:55 AM..
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Both coasts
1,580 posts, read 4,128,860 times
Reputation: 1437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red John View Post

The San Francisco Bay Area has three premier cities which are in turn surrounded by their own suburbs and satellite towns, honestly, aside from megacity stardom, the San Francisco Bay Area offers almost everything else. You can find a lifestyle for almost anyone in one of those three premier cities or it's suburbs, albeit cost of living not barring.
yes, I think the Bay Area in general is the best place to live in the world. I get envious when I'm there
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