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Old 05-02-2014, 06:02 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Gentrification usually has the effect of shrinking household sizes. It can also have the effect of making a neighborhood less structurally "dense" as wealthier residents can afford to combine multiple units into a single unit.

A database of shrinkage | City Notes
do you see that happening in Brownstone Brooklyn (or your Brooklyn neighborhood if you don't live in Brownstone Brooklyn)?
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:05 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Some L.A. census tracts have very large household sizes. Tract 2083.01 (Westlake), for example, has an average household size of 4.63 persons.

Census Tract 73 in Manhattan (West Village) has an average household size of 1.54 persons. Census Tract 50.02 in DC (Logan Circle) has an average household size of 1.33 persons. Many of the most "urban" areas of both places tend to have some of the smallest household sizes in their respective cities.

Census Tract 226 (Central Harlem) has an average household size of 2.32. This used to be one of the densest places in New York City (now only 64K ppsm). Tract 69 (South Bronx) has an average household size of 2.74.
If you have a bunch of adult 20-something sharing an apartment, each person (I think) counts as a household (unless any of them living together are married). So a smaller household might not be as much of a density decreasing as it might sound.
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
do you see that happening in Brownstone Brooklyn (or your Brooklyn neighborhood if you don't live in Brownstone Brooklyn)?
Not really. I would imagine a conversion would be difficult (and expensive), but you can make anything happen if you have the money. I personally would not buy a $1.8 million brownstone and then gut out any potential rental income.
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
If you have a bunch of adult 20-something sharing an apartment, each person (I think) counts as a household (unless any of them living together are married). So a smaller household might not be as much of a density decreasing as it might sound.
A household consists of all people who occupy a housing unit regardless of relationship.

https://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/about/faqs.html
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Some L.A. census tracts have very large household sizes. Tract 2083.01 (Westlake), for example, has an average household size of 4.63 persons.

Census Tract 73 in Manhattan (West Village) has an average household size of 1.54 persons. Census Tract 50.02 in DC (Logan Circle) has an average household size of 1.33 persons. Many of the most "urban" areas of both places tend to have some of the smallest household sizes in their respective cities.

Census Tract 226 (Central Harlem) has an average household size of 2.32. This used to be one of the densest places in New York City (now only 64K ppsm). Tract 69 (South Bronx) has an average household size of 2.74.
Meh. The Outer Boroughs have tons of census tracts with large household sizes, and neither is particularly affluent, yet I don't see anyone trying to dock them points for that. The entire neighborhoods of Westlake and Koreatown have an average household size of around 2.85, not far from the household size of Brooklyn as a whole. The density of the two neighborhoods is roughly 40,000 ppsm.

No single Northeast city (excluding NYC) can match the building density of Los Angeles anyway, and with the structural densification taking place in the city, that isn't going to change. Here's an LA/PHI comparison:

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Old 05-02-2014, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
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Yeah, Central LA definitely has some areas with large households but it's not like that really inflates the density a ton. In fact the Eastside and South LA are inflated much more, those areas are quite urban but not in the walkable and structurally dense way most of us value (esp. SLA).
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:52 AM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives View Post
Meh. The Outer Boroughs have tons of census tracts with large household sizes, and neither is particularly affluent, yet I don't see anyone trying to dock them points for that. The entire neighborhoods of Westlake and Koreatown have an average household size of around 2.85, not far from the household size of Brooklyn as a whole. The density of the two neighborhoods is roughly 40,000 ppsm.

No single Northeast city (excluding NYC) can match the building density of Los Angeles anyway, and with the structural densification taking place in the city, that isn't going to change. Here's an LA/PHI comparison:
These type of comparisons involving housing unit density doesn't really go well for Philly because its smaller satellite cities are more spread out compared to other major cities. Wilmington, DE (30 miles away); Vineland, NJ (40 miles away); Atlantic City, NJ (60 miles away); Reading, PA (60 miles away). L.A.'s satellite cities are much closer, which helps boosts its overall housing unit density. Pasadena, CA (10 miles away); Long Beach, CA (20 miles away); Anaheim,CA (25 miles away).

Last edited by gwillyfromphilly; 05-03-2014 at 01:18 AM..
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Old 05-03-2014, 10:09 AM
 
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It is difficult to say because it is a question of density, structural density, land-density, high rises, skyscrapers, diversity, economy, mass-transit-system, roads, trade, global and regional power, metropolitan size, quality of parks and museums and many other things. In United States I would put New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, Washington DC, Miami, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Dallas, Houston and Boston in the very top. In Canada I think Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Halifax and Winnipeg would be on that list. Mexico has Mexico City, Monterrey, Guadalajara, Querétaro, Leon and Puebla that would make the list. Dominican Republic has only Santo Domingo. It is comparable to St. Louis. Guatemala has Guatemala City which I comparable to Cleveland or Minneapolis. Costa Rica has San Jose, Panama has Panama City, El Salvador has San Salvador, Honduras has Tegucigalpa and Cuba has Havana. United States, Canada and Mexico would pretty much dominate any list. Their cities have by far the most influences. Dominican Republic, Guatemala, Costa Rica, Panama, El Salvador, Honduras and Cuba has cities that can at best play in the same league as Seattle, Minneapolis, Detroit, San Diego, Calgary, Phoenix, Tampa and other local power houses in United States, Mexico and Canada. I think among the smaller North American nations Panama City and Santo Domingo could compete on a “top 50” list. Both cities have even small subways – its more than you can say about most American cities but Santo Domingo is more or less a third world city and Panama City is a smaller version of a richer Mexican city.
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Old 05-03-2014, 02:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives View Post
Meh. The Outer Boroughs have tons of census tracts with large household sizes, and neither is particularly affluent, yet I don't see anyone trying to dock them points for that.
Not true.

Yes, there are some parts of the Outer Boroughs, with high household sizes, but those are the lowest density parts of the Outer Boroughs. The small household sizes are in the densest part of the Outer Boroughs. Northeast Queens has the highest household size in NYC, and is the least dense part of Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx.

And even the high household sizes in a few parts of NYC are nowhere comparable to LA. That's why LA has suburban-looking areas with high densities. You basically have suburban environments, but there are like 20 Salvadorans packed into a house.
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Old 05-03-2014, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Standard111 View Post
Not true.

Yes, there are some parts of the Outer Boroughs, with high household sizes, but those are the lowest density parts of the Outer Boroughs. The small household sizes are in the densest part of the Outer Boroughs. Northeast Queens has the highest household size in NYC, and is the least dense part of Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx.

And even the high household sizes in a few parts of NYC are nowhere comparable to LA. That's why LA has suburban-looking areas with high densities. You basically have suburban environments, but there are like 20 Salvadorans packed into a house.
Do you really think extreme hyperbole makes a good argument?
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