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So you don't think how it ended is as prominent as how it began?
Are you suggesting that the Civil War ended in Savannah? That would be incorrect. Lee surrendered to Grant in VA, the last major battle was fought in TX, and the very last Confederate contingent surrendered in England.
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Objectively?Like you are?lolSMH.
Yes because I'm not saying that things Charleston is associated with or known for are overall more prominent in the national consciousness. You're acting as though you could just stop any random person on the street and they could tell you that the Girl Scouts were founded in Savannah. That's no more likely than a random person knowing that "Porgy and Bess" is set in Charleston.
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I said Savannah is more for tourism but only slightly.The numbers suggest that I ave a valid point.
Like Savannah has a better nightlife and seems better in terms of how many tourist come visit.Which IMO is a clue that maybe Savannah is better known.
Possibly but I'd never point to tourism numbers alone for that. Think of places like Cape Cod or Lake Tahoe. I'm not suggesting that Charleston is as exclusive as those places, but it does have a slightly more niched tourist scene.
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As far as list are concerned,every list Charleston was in Savannah has been right there also.
For most but Charleston has ranked higher a little more lately and made a name for itself before Savannah did in tourism.
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You don't think Charleston wants more of Savannah's visitors and Savannah wants more of Charleston's economy?
But hey I guess I'm being outlandish for suggesting such a thing.
But Charleston isn't really looking at Savannah as a way to increase tourism (like Savannah studied Charleston for the cruise port). If Charleston only wanted more tourists, then it wouldn't even have to look out of state; it could just study Myrtle Beach which attracts more tourists than both Savannah and Charleston.
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Savannah has looked at Charleston just like Charleston has looked at Savannah.One example is the fact that Charleston is deepening there port to compete with Savannah.Savannah is the fourth busiest port in the nation.
Charleston is deepening its port in response to the Panama Canal expansion just like all East Coast ports. Furthermore, the ports are under the jurisdiction of the state, not the city.
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You already mentioned about Savannah looking at Charelston's cruise ship economy and decided against it.
There's also the Broad Street undertaking to bring more retail to the street. Charleston's King Street has also been mentioned in connection with that project and in the end, Broad Street will probably have more of an Upper King Street flavor which retains more of a local feel with some chains mixed in.
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Oh and btw.I asked what on a national level that stood out more.You never answered that question.
Except that's not what you asked; you only asked what things does Charleston have that are known nationally or internationally. You never said anything about which things that stood out more, and there's really no way to quantify that anyway, at least outside of their signature events and even that's not an apples-to-apples comparison.
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I knew about Charleston's historybecause I am from Georgia and when we learn in school about Georgia we learn about the region.
Oh come on. In school you learn your state's history, U.S. history, and world history. You'd only learn about aspects of Charleston's history if they had some level of prominence relative to your state, the nation, or the world. Of course Fort Sumter would be among those things, but the other stuff? Extremely doubtful and if so, it would only be in passing since they weren't major events on the national or world stage. I actually took SC history and can't even recall having been taught that minor stuff and I was an A student so I doubt a random student from GA would, unless they were really into arts history or antebellum historic architecture.
Are you suggesting that the Civil War ended in Savannah? That would be incorrect. Lee surrendered to Grant in VA, the last major battle was fought in TX, and the very last Confederate contingent surrendered in England.
No Im not but you know Sherman;s March to Sea is what most historian clam is the defining moment that broke the back of the confederacy.
Yes because I'm not saying that things Charleston is associated with or known for are overall more prominent in the national consciousness. You're acting as though you could just stop any random person on the street and they could tell you that the Girl Scouts were founded in Savannah. That's no more likely than a random person knowing that "Porgy and Bess" is set in Charleston. No Im not saying that.Im saying that things such as the Girl Scouts is something eveybody in the U.S. has heard so if they did go to Savannah,it would be of special consequence learning that it is the home of its birth.Same with other interesting facts.
Possibly but I'd never point to tourism numbers alone for that. Think of places like Cape Cod or Lake Tahoe. I'm not suggesting that Charleston is as exclusive as those places, but it does have a slightly more niched tourist scene. Yes Charleston does.Savannah caters to a slightly younger less affluent demographic which is a larger market that accommodates people
For most but Charleston has ranked higher a little more lately and made a name for itself before Savannah did in tourism. True.
But Charleston isn't really looking at Savannah as a way to increase tourism (like Savannah studied Charleston for the cruise port). If Charleston only wanted more tourists, then it wouldn't even have to look out of state; it could just study Myrtle Beach which attracts more tourists than both Savannah and Charleston. But the type of visitors Savannah and Charleston get are somewhat more affluent so I disagree.
Charleston is deepening its port in response to the Panama Canal expansion just like all East Coast ports. Furthermore, the ports are under the jurisdiction of the state, not the city.
Yes but Charleston for years has used Savannah as a target for increasing traffic in its port well before this Panama Canal expansion.
There's also the Broad Street undertaking to bring more retail to the street. Charleston's King Street has also been mentioned in connection with that project and in the end, Broad Street will probably have more of an Upper King Street flavor which retains more of a local feel with some chains mixed in. Well I don't completely disagree but all of Georgia's main cities are experiencing trying to do more to revive there downtown retail and dining experiences.Charlotte nor Savannah is not the purveyors of such new interest in this.
Except that's not what you asked; you only asked what things does Charleston have that are known nationally or internationally. You never said anything about which things that stood out more, and there's really no way to quantify that anyway, at least outside of their signature events and even that's not an apples-to-apples comparison.
Sounds like that is exactly what I asked but you said I did not know much abou Charelston so I asked questions,That is not what I asked either.
Oh come on. In school you learn your state's history, U.S. history, and world history. You'd only learn about aspects of Charleston's history if they had some level of prominence relative to your state, the nation, or the world. Of course Fort Sumter would be among those things, but the other stuff? Extremely doubtful and if so, it would only be in passing since they weren't major events on the national or world stage. I actually took SC history and can't even recall having been taught that minor stuff and I was an A student so I doubt a random student from GA would, unless they were really into arts history or antebellum historic architecture.
My dad just retired as a Vice President of a university and my mom was a retired school teacher.We travelled extensively and they taught me a lot at home.Its possible that I my memory may not be accurate but i do specifically remember being taught SOME things about Charleston when we learned about Savannah.
No Im not but you know Sherman;s March to Sea is what most historian clam is the defining moment that broke the back of the confederacy.
It still wasn't the end of the war and doesn't hold as much prominence as the first shots that were fired. And even within Georgia, the Battle of Atlanta holds more prominence than the march to the sea because Atlanta was burned to the ground while basically nothing happened in Savannah.
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No Im not saying that.Im saying that things such as the Girl Scouts is something eveybody in the U.S. has heard so if they did go to Savannah,it would be of special consequence learning that it is the home of its birth.Same with other interesting facts.
I still don't see how that gives Savannah an edge over Charleston when Charleston has just as many interesting sites, perhaps just a tad bit more. And like I said, whether it's the Juliette Low house in Savannah or the Heyward-Washington house (home to one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence) in Charleston, people will just tour the house, read some plaques, and take some pictures. Savannah has the bench in Chippewa Square in Forrest Gump, Charleston has Boone Hall Plantation (a tourist attraction in and of itself) in The Notebook.
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Yes but Charleston for years has used Savannah as a target for increasing traffic in its port well before this Panama Canal expansion.
That's an effort on behalf of the state ports authority, which is beyond the jurisdiction of the city of Charleston.
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Well I don't completely disagree but all of Georgia's main cities are experiencing trying to do more to revive there downtown retail and dining experiences.Charlotte nor Savannah is not the purveyors of such new interest in this.
My point is that King Street is a model for this type of urban retail to at least some degree. It was even held up as an example for Atlanta to emulate with the Streets of Buckhead concept.
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My dad just retired as a Vice President of a university and my mom was a retired school teacher.We travelled extensively and they taught me a lot at home.Its possible that I my memory may not be accurate but i do specifically remember being taught SOME things about Charleston when we learned about Savannah.
Sure, but for the most part those would be basic facts that most anyone would learn in U.S. history, such as Charleston's status as a port of entry for slaves, the South's biggest and wealthiest city until the rise of New Orleans, where the Civil War started, etc. I don't see why Georgia's K-12 curriculum would go into depth about Charleston's history beyond the more prominent stuff.
It still wasn't the end of the war and doesn't hold as much prominence as the first shots that were fired. And even within Georgia, the Battle of Atlanta holds more prominence than the march to the sea because Atlanta was burned to the ground while basically nothing happened in Savannah.
Well its basically a matter of opinion but I disagree.Atlanta and Savannah are tied together in this.After al,it is called "Sherman's March To Sea"
I still don't see how that gives Savannah an edge over Charleston when Charleston has just as many interesting sites, perhaps just a tad bit more. And like I said, whether it's the Juliette Low house in Savannah or the Heyward-Washington house (home to one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence) in Charleston, people will just tour the house, read some plaques, and take some pictures. Savannah has the bench in Chippewa Square in Forrest Gump, Charleston has Boone Hall Plantation (a tourist attraction in and of itself) in The Notebook.
The Notebook was more of a national movie than Forest Gump which broke more records internationally.Forest Gump and the Notebook are not even in the same league. I still honestly believe that most people know a little bit more about things from Savannah than Charleston.Not a huge amount but you make it sound like I am being so biased for suggesting this and you somehow are more balanced even though you seem to think the fact that more than double amount of tourist in Savannah has little to do with it somehow.
Its not just Forest Gump but who can forget how Savannah really got its boost in tourism because of the book "Midnight In the Garden of Good and Evil".?
That book is Savannah's Gone With the Wind.
Here is an interesting article.Notice how it mention "The BooK' but when they talk about Savannah but no equivalent for Charleston is mentioned.Just historic stuff like Savannah. http://www.nj.com/indulge/index.ssf/..._savannah.html
That's an effort on behalf of the state ports authority, which is beyond the jurisdiction of the city of Charleston. True but do you really think that the city leaders are not behind that push?The attention of the port had to come from Charleston leaders.
My point is that King Street is a model for this type of urban retail to at least some degree. It was even held up as an example for Atlanta to emulate with the Streets of Buckhead concept. Yes and so was Rodeo drive.My point is that ideas for redevelopment come from everywhere.
Sure, but for the most part those would be basic facts that most anyone would learn in U.S. history, such as Charleston's status as a port of entry for slaves, the South's biggest and wealthiest city until the rise of New Orleans, where the Civil War started, etc. I don't see why Georgia's K-12 curriculum would go into depth about Charleston's history beyond the more prominent stuff.
Well I never said it was in depth but some of the things you mentioned earlier,I did learn in school.
Op, I think because you and your partner are a gay couple you would both like Savannah better. There is another thread going on right now actually talking about the best city in the South for LGBT that is not Atlanta or New Orleans and Savannah is dominating the thread.
The Notebook was more of a national movie than Forest Gump which broke more records internationally.Forest Gump and the Notebook are not even in the same league.
That really doesn't even matter since neither movie was set in either city. People associate Forrest Gump with Alabama because that's where it was set, and certainly folks aren't going to travel to Savannah just to see a prop bench. Anyone who visits Savannah will tour the squares anyway, and Boone Hall Plantation is popular tourist attraction in Charleston regardless. And truth be told, I don't even know why any of this even matters since it's not on the OP's list of preferences.
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I still honestly believe that most people know a little bit more about things from Savannah than Charleston.Not a huge amount but you make it sound like I am being so biased for suggesting this and you somehow are more balanced even though you seem to think the fact that more than double amount of tourist in Savannah has little to do with it somehow.
And more people visit Orlando than Savannah and Charleston combined, but most people couldn't tell you anything about Orlando besides the mouse. For a more local example, Myrtle Beach gets more tourists than either Charleston or Savannah but I seriously doubt people can tell you anything about Myrtle Beach beyond the beach itself and some tourist-trap attractions. I think you're really stretching these points and again, it has nothing to do with the OP's preferences so why is it even relevant?
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ts not just Forest Gump but who can forget how Savannah really got its boost in tourism because of the book "Midnight In the Garden of Good and Evil".?
That book is Savannah's Gone With the Wind.
Here is an interesting article.Notice how it mention "The BooK' but when they talk about Savannah but no equivalent for Charleston is mentioned.Just historic stuff like Savannah. - NJ.com
And see how that same article mentioned Fort Sumter but nothing about the March to the Sea. This is just one reason why I keep saying that overall, it's pretty much a wash.
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True but do you really think that the city leaders are not behind that push?The attention of the port had to come from Charleston leaders.
Uh, no it didn't; it comes from the state ports authority which keeps track of port statistics. Of course the city will partner in expanding the port but that's not in their jurisdiction. Requesting federal funds and such has to be done on the state level.
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Yes and so was Rodeo drive.My point is that ideas for redevelopment come from everywhere.
If that's the case, then to be consistent you have to say that the desire to expand Charleston's port comes from everywhere too. Savannah's port isn't the only other port that exists in the country.
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Well I never said it was in depth but some of the things you mentioned earlier,I did learn in school.
Yes, the important historic events that had national importance. The other stuff, not so much; as I said, we didn't really even learn the specifics of the less important stuff in SC history that I can recall.
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Originally Posted by CravingMountains
Op, I think because you and your partner are a gay couple you would both like Savannah better. There is another thread going on right now actually talking about the best city in the South for LGBT that is not Atlanta or New Orleans and Savannah is dominating the thread.
For nightlife, definitely Savannah. However they also want to visit an aquarium and a good maritime history museum, and Charleston would be better for those attractions. Plus they want to visit during Memorial Day weekend which is when Charleston's signature cultural event, the internationally known Spoleto Festival, kicks off and it would be a shame for them to miss out on that during their visit. I think both cities should definitely be on the itinerary.
That really doesn't even matter since neither movie was set in either city. People associate Forrest Gump with Alabama because that's where it was set, and certainly folks aren't going to travel to Savannah just to see a prop bench. Anyone who visits Savannah will tour the squares anyway, and Boone Hall Plantation is popular tourist attraction in Charleston regardless. And truth be told, I don't even know why any of this even matters since it's not on the OP's list of preferences. Yes yes.Forest Gump but you make no mention of how Midnight brought major attention for years and still does.What does Charleston have that brought so much attention in recent times like this has for Savaanah?
And more people visit Orlando than Savannah and Charleston combined, but most people couldn't tell you anything about Orlando besides the mouse. For a more local example, Myrtle Beach gets more tourists than either Charleston or Savannah but I seriously doubt people can tell you anything about Myrtle Beach beyond the beach itself and some tourist-trap attractions. I think you're really stretching these points and again, it has nothing to do with the OP's preferences so why is it even relevant? [color="red"]I never said one way or another.As it pertains to our conversation ,it is very relevant.
I made a statement and you challenged it.That is why its relevant[
Disney World,Universal,etc..Those the overwhelming reason people go to Orlando.
People go to Charleston and Savannah for the history and culture of the cities.Big Difference.
People go to Myrtle BEACH because of the BEACH.Not for the culture I hope for God's sake.ewwhh.
/COLOR].
And see how that same article mentioned Fort Sumter but nothing about the March to the Sea. This is just one reason why I keep saying that overall, it's pretty much a wash. Ft.Sumpter is definitely an important event but it seems to me that was all they could come up with for Charleston that was on par with the Midnight comments.
They could have said very little or nothing about Midnight and instead mentioned how Sherman spared Savannah like many descriptions of Savannah I have read before.
For balance that was the best they had.Can you think of anything else on par in popularity?I honestly cannot.
You say its a "wash" but I don't.I see it as close with an edge to Savannah.
A wash is acceptable and its not at all an absurd conclusion.
Uh, no it didn't; it comes from the state ports authority which keeps track of port statistics. Of course the city will partner in expanding the port but that's not in their jurisdiction. Requesting federal funds and such has to be done on the state level. You keep talking about funding ,but in the beginning their was Charleston with a port before there was a "port authority" because the citizen that live in the Charleston area are the backbone of its success and growth with help from the state of South Carolina.
If that's the case, then to be consistent you have to say that the desire to expand Charleston's port comes from everywhere too. Savannah's port isn't the only other port that exists in the country. I don't disagree with that but it was you that implied that Savannah looks to Charleston more than the other way around.I simply believe it is mutual admiration.
Yes, the important historic events that had national importance. The other stuff, not so much; as I said, we didn't really even learn the specifics of the less important stuff in SC history that I can recall.
For nightlife, definitely Savannah. However they also want to visit an aquarium and a good maritime history museum, and Charleston would be better for those attractions. Plus they want to visit during Memorial Day weekend which is when Charleston's signature cultural event, the internationally known Spoleto Festival, kicks off and it would be a shame for them to miss out on that during their visit. I think both cities should definitely be on the itinerary.
Which is better for live music?I was impressed with he live music all over Savannah to Tybee Island
You keep mentioning Forest Gump but you make no mention of how Midnight brought major attention for years and still does.
Sure it does, but as I said before, Charleston was already on the map when 'Midnight' put Savannah there.
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I never said one way or another.As it pertains to our conversation ,it is very relevant.
I made a statement and you challenged it.That is why its relevant.
It's not relevant to the OP's preferences as far as visiting, so I simply don't understand why it was even brought up in the first place. That's my point.
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Ft.Sumpter is definitely and important event but it seems to me that was ll they could come up with for Charleston that was on par with the Midnight comments.
They could have said little about Midnight and instead mentioned how Sherman spared Savannah like many descriptions of Savannah I have read before.
For balance that was the best they had.
It's Fort Sumter; it doesn't have a "p" in it. And why would the fact that Savannah was spared be mentioned when the point is to highlight historic sites and attractions? There's nothing to actually see in that regard.
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You say its a "wash" but I don't.I see it as close with an edge to Savannah.
A wash is acceptable and its not at all an absurd conclusion
Again, it's because you're biased lol. I could easily make a case for Charleston having the edge since it's bigger and has more to see and do overall--and those are objective facts that can't be argued--but for all practical purposes, I still see it as a wash for the most part.
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You keep talking about funding ,but in the beginning their was Charleston with a port before there was a "port authority" because the citizen that live in the Charleston area are the backbone of its success and growth with help from the state of South Carolina.
And in the beginning, Charleston was the bigger and busier port so your point has no merit. Savannah passed Charleston around 2002 (which wasn't very long ago) and clearly there was a state ports authority in place at that time and had been for decades.
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I don't disagree with that but it was you that implied that Savannah looks to Charleston more than the other way around.I simply believe it is mutual admiration.
I said that because it's true. Charleston is bigger, older, and refashioned itself into a tourist hub first, so of course Savannah looks to Charleston when it comes to certain things. Again, practically every new type of development Savannah has implemented or is implementing, Charleston has already been there and done that. Just as a quick exercise to check this out, I went to Savannah's daily online and simply searched for "Charleston." This was the very first article to come up: CITY TALK: What Savannah can learn from Charleston | savannahnow.com In the article mentioned another area in which Savannah looks to Charleston:
I love many of our local restaurants, but it’s frankly difficult to find spots in Savannah that offer the combination of quality and value that one finds routinely in Charleston.
Obvious reasons abound. There are more people in Charleston — and more money. Their tourists are bigger spenders. Good restaurants can count on high volume.
More importantly, Charleston’s foodie culture is several steps ahead of ours.
I searched for the first 10-12 pages or so to find articles wherein Savannah compares itself to Charleston in some way or another and came across several:
I did the exact same for Charleston, and only came up with one article, and even then it wasn't Charleston comparing itself to Savannah but the writer using Savannah as a point of reference:
Sure it does, but as I said before, Charleston was already on the map when 'Midnight' put Savannah there. True.But because of it,Savanah has largely become more popular than Charleston.
I would bet that before that book and movie,Savannah and Charleston were closer in number of tourist.
Another reason I think is SCAD.
It's not relevant to the OP's preferences as far as visiting, so I simply don't understand why it was even brought up in the first place. That's my point. It was brought up because YOU challenged it.Now it seems when I defended it with valid points,it now not "relevant"
It's Fort Sumter; it doesn't have a "p" in it. And why would the fact that Savannah was spared be mentioned when the point is to highlight historic sites and attractions? There's nothing to actually see in that regard. My bad.
What are you talking about?There are sites and attractions regarding Sherman's March to Sea. http://www.city-data.com/articles/Th...nahs-Home.html
Again, it's because you're biased lol. I could easily make a case for Charleston having the edge since it's bigger and has more to see and do overall--and those are objective facts that can't be argued--but for all practical purposes, I still see it as a wash for the most part.
And in the beginning, Charleston was the bigger and busier port so your point has no merit. Savannah passed Charleston around 2002 (which wasn't very long ago) and clearly there was a state ports authority in place at that time and had been for decades. Because YOU are biased!Charleston is bigger but like I said before,Savannah gets over 12 millipn touris a year and Charleston just over 4.8 million.
That is a wide margin.I could see if it were within a million or 2million but that is nearly 6 million more people
.I also saw a census report recently on international residents and Savannah had a considerable higher population of international residents and visitors.
I am biased because I do like Savannah better but these reason I have listed earlier are why.
Apparently there is data like this that does show that what I say has merit so don't try to dismiss so quickly because I think my point is valid.
I said that because it's true. Charleston is bigger, older, and refashioned itself into a tourist hub first, so of course Savannah looks to Charleston when it comes to certain things. Again, practically every new type of development Savannah has implemented or is implementing, Charleston has already been there and done that. Just as a quick exercise to check this out, I went to Savannah's daily online and simply searched for "Charleston." This was the very first article to come up: CITY TALK: What Savannah can learn from Charleston | savannahnow.com In the article mentioned another area in which Savannah looks to Charleston:
I love many of our local restaurants, but it’s frankly difficult to find spots in Savannah that offer the combination of quality and value that one finds routinely in Charleston.
Obvious reasons abound. There are more people in Charleston — and more money. Their tourists are bigger spenders. Good restaurants can count on high volume.
More importantly, Charleston’s foodie culture is several steps ahead of ours.
I searched for the first 10-12 pages or so to find articles wherein Savannah compares itself to Charleston in some way or another and came across several:
I did the exact same for Charleston, and only came up with one article, and even then it wasn't Charleston comparing itself to Savannah but the writer using Savannah as a point of reference:
No additional slow vehicles for Charleston's city streets - Post and Courier This is the only valid point that I can see Charleston having a greater influence on Savannah
But one thing I noticed in reading all of those articles is that Savannah because of its larger historic area,its squares and even the presence of SCAD,gives Savaanah more uniqueness than Charleston.
Savannah has always bee slow about getting too big while Charleston IS the biggest city in the state of S.C.,there is more of a push to make it bigger.
Savannah is barely even the second largest city on the state of Georgia.
Not sure honestly. Neither one is Austin, but I'm sure both have their spots.
So its a lot of we can do this like Charleston but Not that like Charleston.
Again the example of the cruise ships comes to mind
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