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I'm not sure why your opinion of a few poster's attitudes in an online forum would negate the benefits of a strong urban core in Richmond. And you may not value what Richmond offers, but others do. 35 contiguous blocks of row houses provides a less automobile dependent lifestyle and it encourages a different type of community interaction than say 5 blocks of row homes. Raleigh may offer smaller iterations of that which are not contiguous, but again, that's why Richmond does have assets Raleigh doesn't (and the same can be said of Raleigh over Richmond).
While you may understand growth trends and patterns, I'm not sure how stagnation is relevant to this conversation. Richmond has grown within the city limits and in the metro. It's actually been a nice balance between stagnation and aggressive growth IMO.
I'm not over or under valuing urban living, been there down that. But my point is places like Raleigh, Durham, Greensboro, Winston-Salem etc are much more urban than people give credit. It's just not designed or built in row-house fashion and many people do live in these cities without cars. And in my opinion have well integrated neighborhoods to navigate the city, walk, etc. The neighborhoods are there and each of the cities needs a bit more downtown vibrancy and branding to take the next step.
I know what Richmond is and isn't, I like it. But after years of living in DC (the city, NOVA and PG County), spending time with fam in Richmond, Tidewater, etc. it dawned on me that many of them had never spent significant time visiting or living in a city like Durham where I currently reside. So, obviously they call it the "country" and I find that quite amusing. Again, I understand, Richmond is pretty urban compared to NC cities in general but that level of ignorance is amusing. But it's still southern (even more so than RDU to a certain degree), cliquish and definitely not DC. And has some of that Raleigh-type snobbishness.
RDU is the best of everything ranging from the universities, professionals, careers, amenities, arts, diversity, geographical location, etc. It's an amazing place that combines pockets of what you'll find in major metros all rolled up into one mid-size metropolitan area. In my opinion, RDU's sweet spot was early 90s and early 2000s. Now, the infrastructure is straining due to overgrowth and when they had a chance to build mass transit, it reneged. It's a catch 22 though because the lack of a mass transit is driving unprecedented urban infill in and around the downtowns.
I'm not sure why your opinion of a few poster's attitudes in an online forum would negate the benefits of a strong urban core in Richmond. And you may not value what Richmond offers, but others do. 35 contiguous blocks of row houses provides a less automobile dependent lifestyle and it encourages a different type of community interaction than say 5 blocks of row homes. Raleigh may offer smaller iterations of that which are not contiguous, but again, that's why Richmond does have assets Raleigh doesn't (and the same can be said of Raleigh over Richmond).
While you may understand growth trends and patterns, I'm not sure how stagnation is relevant to this conversation. Richmond has grown within the city limits and in the metro. It's actually been a nice balance between stagnation and aggressive growth IMO.
Do you have any information on new condos, apartments, town homes, or office space being built in Richmond, not including rehabs?
But it's still southern (even more so than RDU to a certain degree), cliquish and definitely not DC. And has some of that Raleigh-type snobbishness.
RDU is the best of everything ranging from the universities, professionals, careers, amenities, arts, diversity, geographical location, etc. It's an amazing place that combines pockets of what you'll find in major metros all rolled up into one mid-size metropolitan area.
the lack of a mass transit is driving unprecedented urban infill in and around the downtowns.
To the first part of your statement that I quoted above, can you explain how 1)Richmond is "even more" southern than RDU; and 2)what is the snobbish similarity you've noticed between the two?
To the second part that I quoted, you're boostering extra hard to say Raleigh has the best of everything. Of the characteristics that you listed as Raleigh having best of, there's no way anybody with an honest analysis gives this unanimously to either city...
To the final quoted text, Raleigh's urban infilling may be "unprecedented" by regional standards, but it's not even "unprecedented" in Carolina; Charlotte would easily take that. That notwithstanding, I think the infill in core Raleigh is impressive, though...
I'll take Raleigh. That city isn't the sleepy, small town that I remember taking trips to when I was growing up. Raleigh has turn into a full fledged metropolis.
I know both metros well. Y'all keep believing that Richmond art & culture superiority bunk, that Raleigh is one big strip mall and people are quasi-forced to move and stay here because of their jobs. I guess you gotta have something to hang your hat on.
I know Richmond is growing but Raleigh, Durham and Chapel Hill are booming inside and out. In my opinion, Raleigh's downtown and surrounding neighborhoods will experience unprecedented growth the next decade. I think from urban scale to high-rise apartments and condos, it's as good an investment that could be made. I left Durham in 2008 and returned in 2016 and the transformation in Durham is incredible.
And because of it's rich collegiate environment, not only major universities but also historically black colleges and universities...the range of folk from the creative, artistic, highly-educated, and swath of professionals in a mid-size metro like Raleigh/Durham is unique as any in America, period.
This is a great post! Raleigh including and excluding Durham are incredible for their size I travel a lot and whenever I mention it to anyone from Californians, Texas, New York, or abroad first they say "I love Raleigh, it's so pretty" Then they say they have been to Raleigh for work RTP as it's a juggernaut or have went to school there or have kids in Universities there etc. Raleigh/Durham is super unique and has a very cosmopolitan/international flair because of the education and RTP engines. Also, since I've moved to Dallas what I'm finding is that the public school system is stellar in most cities. Everyone here has to pay for private schools because the school system is crappy. In Raleigh sending your child to public school is like sending them to private school. (That alone trumps most cities in the country and especially the south, for growing families) Also, the income disparities and "poor side of town" that plaques so many cities is not nearly as pronounced. A diamond in the rough RDU is.
Last edited by Taynxtlvl; 10-26-2017 at 07:08 AM..
To the first part of your statement that I quoted above, can you explain how 1)Richmond is "even more" southern than RDU; and 2)what is the snobbish similarity you've noticed between the two?
To the second part that I quoted, you're boostering extra hard to say Raleigh has the best of everything. Of the characteristics that you listed as Raleigh having best of, there's no way anybody with an honest analysis gives this unanimously to either city...
To the final quoted text, Raleigh's urban infilling may be "unprecedented" by regional standards, but it's not even "unprecedented" in Carolina; Charlotte would easily take that. That notwithstanding, I think the infill in core Raleigh is impressive, though...
I think cliquish is better term when referring to Richmond. I haven't found an area in Richmond comparable to Cary (snobbish), not even Short Pump. I think Richmond is culturally set and has it's groove to a degree whereas RDU seems to be evolving faster because of the high growth - for better or worse.
It's not boostering and why people gravitate to the area and love to hate it. RDU is more suburban than urban which most people prefer but urban enough in a certain way. It's diverse with a collection of professionals not seen in peer metros and larger metros. Everything from intellectuals to idiots (myself included), hipsters, khakis, high tech, etc. all over the place. It's a geographical gem for short flights to anywhere up and down the east coast.
Richmond matches Raleigh in all of the above categories aside from that huge collection of professionals from all over the place due to the influence RTP and universities. Not that Richmond is lacking in that area but it doesn't have the reputation or quite the magnitude which is what makes RDU, RDU. Both are accessible to mountains and beaches. Richmond is more urban and closer to the larger northeastern cities to quench that big city excursion for vibrancy and action. Actually, Richmond's economy and corporate presence is strong given it's proximity to the mighty Bo-Wash metro.
Either is cool enough in my book and about as good as it gets if you're not a major city enthusiast. I still prefer RDU because it is more suburban in nature/"country" and one of the few mid-size metros that offers a lot of opportunities only found in a major city/metro.
I by no means will equate RDU to the urban boom in Charlotte or Richmond's wealth of urban enclaves, nooks and crannies like the Fan, Shockhoe, Carytown, etc. I just find Raleigh a bit more accommodating QOL but so have a lot of people which is slowly eroding that QOL as do most places that get put on a "best" list.
Stay away Murk, it's getting too crowded and dare a I say too "urban". I want my RDU back - from the late 90s and 2000s.
Just an update to my experience. I have now been in Richmond for three months and have networked with local business owners, developers, the local community garden and more. I enjoy walking down the block and dropping off my clothes at the cleaners with the owner of 40 years. After that, I usually head to the library and finish at the yoga studio. I LOVE MY NEIGHBORHOOD.
I have already lost 10 lbs because I park my car when I get home and enjoy my pedestrian life. I went to visit relatives in Raleigh for the holidays....the same subdivision, and even rural let's drive to the mailbox life style. Raliegh is not conducive to social engagement and overall it does not have the cohesive feel of a city. Since being in Richmond, I dont even miss Brooklyn as much. I realize I wasn't missing Brooklyn as much as I was missing sidewalks, local theatre, corner stores, and great food. I have that in Richmond now!
Just an update to my experience. I have now been in Richmond for three months and have networked with local business owners, developers, the local community garden and more. I enjoy walking down the block and dropping off my clothes at the cleaners with the owner of 40 years. After that, I usually head to the library and finish at the yoga studio. I LOVE MY NEIGHBORHOOD.
I have already lost 10 lbs because I park my car when I get home and enjoy my pedestrian life. I went to visit relatives in Raleigh for the holidays....the same subdivision, and even rural let's drive to the mailbox life style. Raliegh is not conducive to social engagement and overall it does not have the cohesive feel of a city. Since being in Richmond, I dont even miss Brooklyn as much. I realize I wasn't missing Brooklyn as much as I was missing sidewalks, local theatre, corner stores, and great food. I have that in Richmond now!
I'm glad you're enjoying the city!
I have a question for you as a recent transplant, based on an active topic on the Virginia board right now. As a native New Yorker that's also familiar with other parts of the South, do you consider modern, present-day Richmond southern, and if so, how would you describe it's southern personality in depth and characteristics?
I'm going to watch this thread as there is potential for a move from RTP to Richmond in my future, and I haven't been here long enough to have really settled in to where it feels permanent.
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