Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
TexasReb, you and I agree on many things. But not the Southern Focus Poll. I will quote you a few lines from their website-
"Each fall and spring, a random sample of approximately 800 adult Southerners (residents of the states of Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia) and 400 non-Southerners are interviewed by telephone."
So they've already decided on their definition of the South. "400 non-Southerners". So perhaps they interview maybe 30 West Virginians by telephone. Am I, or anyone, supposed to take this seriously?
So in all, only 1200 people are sampled. What a f***ing farce! Surely you can defend Texas and the South without using this lame telephone survey about what is the South? The Telsur map is far and away a more accurate survey of the Southern speech than the Southern Focus Poll.
First of all, yes, you and I DO agree on many things! That has been proven over and over in many other threads.
Second though, I think you miss the point about the Southern Focus Poll in several ways. In fact, I see something right off the bat that got lost in the translation between us. The survey concerning the use of "y'all" (which AJ commented on and I posted earlier) was NOT from the Southern Focus Poll, but rather, a dialect study at Harvard.
See what I mean? We are talking apples and oranges in this case. And I can't really say much about whether or not the dialect study is accurate or not. I just passed it on in the FWIW department.
With that said though, as concerns the Southern Focus Poll which asked respondents the two simple of questions of do you consider your community to be in the South and do you consider yourself a Southerner?
You seem to question its validity simply because for polling purposes this group has a definition of the South, right? Well, not withstanding that the Gallup and Harris Polls do the same thing, this definition has no bearing at all on how respondents PERSONALLY see themselves and their community. In other words, the poller didn't say, "We have already determined you live in the South and are a Southerner, are you going to argue with us about it"? LOL I am not trying to be a smarta$$, but can't you see that a definition for polling purposes (which extends far beyond and embraces many issues apart from deliniating the boundaries of the South) has no bearing at all on what answer will be given.
Also, the poll results were not just 1200 people. They were the average result of 14 seperate polls spanning 7 years! So it would be more like close to 17,000! (Keep in mind, that this particular one is NOT the one mentioned earlier concerning y'all. I hope this clarifies a bit.
Quote:
Surely you can defend Texas and the South without using this lame telephone survey about what is the South? The Telsur map is far and away a more accurate survey of the Southern speech than the Southern Focus Poll.
I hope we already agreed that we were discussing two different polls, which in turn lead to a lot of confusion. Anyway, in this realm it is not a matter of "defending" Texas and South (although as you know I am very prone to do so! LOL), but rather just passing along interesting information and study results. Which one is free to take or leave to their validity. And again, it is only one of MANY ways to "find the South" (which naturally, is NEVER going to be settled to everyone's satisfaction and agreement).
Concerning your own map, while very interesting in turn (and I have seen it before), I admit to have a hard time understanding, given some of your earlier statements about polling, why you would place stock in this one as to how people "view themselves." It is simply an ancestry map, not in the least how "people see themselves" in terms of regional affiliation. For instance, here is another good map showing the part of the United States where the Baptist Church is dominate:
Now, I might argue that this map is ALSO one showing where the South lies in this particular realm, and say "substitute Southern for Baptist" (the same way you said earlier to "substitute Southern for American" on the ancestry map). But NEITHER of them have any thing to do with how people might see themselves personally in terms of regional affiliation. In fact, the religious map would actually be a better indicator since people can't help their ancestry group, but CAN choose their religion! And the Baptist Church has always been heavily associated with the Southern states. But main point is, again, neither have anything to do with regional self-identification. Rather, that they are just one of literally dozens of ways and criteria to "find" the South. Just as the Southern Focus poll is one...but only one.
Anyway, we are probably straying off topic, so while I see your point, I hope you also better see and understand mine. Agreed?
First of all, yes, you and I DO agree on many things! That has been proven over and over in many other threads.
Second though, I think you miss the point about the Southern Focus Poll in several ways. In fact, I see something right off the bat that got lost in the translation between us. The survey concerning the use of "y'all" (which AJ commented on and I posted earlier) was NOT from the Southern Focus Poll, but rather, a dialect study at Harvard.
See what I mean? We are talking apples and oranges in this case. And I can't really say much about whether or not the dialect study is accurate or not. I just passed it on in the FWIW department.
With that said though, as concerns the Southern Focus Poll which asked respondents the two simple of questions of do you consider your community to be in the South and do you consider yourself a Southerner?
You seem to question its validity simply because for polling purposes this group has a definition of the South, right? Well, not withstanding that the Gallup and Harris Polls do the same thing, this definition has no bearing at all on how respondents PERSONALLY see themselves and their community. In other words, the poller didn't say, "We have already determined you live in the South and are a Southerner, are you going to argue with us about it"? LOL I am not trying to be a smarta$$, but can't you see that a definition for polling purposes (which extends far beyond and embraces many issues apart from deliniating the boundaries of the South) has no bearing at all on what answer will be given.
Also, the poll results were not just 1200 people. They were the average result of 14 seperate polls spanning 7 years! So it would be more like close to 17,000! (Keep in mind, that this particular one is NOT the one mentioned earlier concerning y'all. I hope this clarifies a bit.
I hope we already agreed that we were discussing two different polls, which in turn lead to a lot of confusion. Anyway, in this realm it is not a matter of "defending" Texas and South (although as you know I am very prone to do so! LOL), but rather just passing along interesting information and study results. Which one is free to take or leave to their validity. And again, it is only one of MANY ways to "find the South" (which naturally, is NEVER going to be settled to everyone's satisfaction and agreement).
Concerning your own map, while very interesting in turn (and I have seen it before), I admit to have a hard time understanding, given some of your earlier statements about polling, why you would place stock in this one as to how people "view themselves." It is simply an ancestry map, not in the least how "people see themselves" in terms of regional affiliation. For instance, here is another good map showing the part of the United States where the Baptist Church is dominate:
Now, I might argue that this map is ALSO one showing where the South lies in this particular realm, and say "substitute Southern for Baptist" (the same way you said earlier to "substitute Southern for American" on the ancestry map). But NEITHER of them have any thing to do with how people might see themselves personally in terms of regional affiliation. In fact, the religious map would actually be a better indicator since people can't help their ancestry group, but CAN choose their religion! And the Baptist Church has always been heavily associated with the Southern states. But main point is, again, neither have anything to do with regional self-identification. Rather, that they are just one of literally dozens of ways and criteria to "find" the South. Just as the Southern Focus poll is one...but only one.
Anyway, we are probably straying off topic, so while I see your point, I hope you also better see and understand mine. Agreed?
That map is a bit strange considering that it says my county is mainly Catholic which it isn't. It is mainly protestant. It has more Catholics than Baptists because of the east end, but it is still much more protestant tham Catholic :
Moderator cut: link to a competitors site removed
To me personally, the Baptist argument doesn't do a lot of representation for the south, especially since there are different types of Baptists(i.e. moderate as opposed to Southern Baptists), and honestly while people can choose their religion, to me it doesn't necessarily represent where a state's culture lies, as there are many other defining factors of culture besides just religion. To me, politics, dialect, ancestry, and economy play a much more defining role in what is the South and what is not as opposed to religion. Religion is simply one factor, and by itself not nearly a strong enough argument to say you are in the South. In fact, religion has always been one of the last things I've looked to in defining the South unless the Bible appears to be as strong in politics as scientific fact, which I have never seen at least in my neck of the woods.
To me personally, the Baptist argument doesn't do a lot of representation for the south, especially since there are different types of Baptists(i.e. moderate as opposed to Southern Baptists), and honestly while people can choose their religion, to me it doesn't necessarily represent where a state's culture lies, as there are many other defining factors of culture besides just religion. To me, politics, dialect, ancestry, and economy play a much more defining role in what is the South and what is not as opposed to religion. Religion is simply one factor, and by itself not nearly a strong enough argument to say you are in the South. In fact, religion has always been one of the last things I've looked to in defining the South unless the Bible appears to be as strong in politics as scientific fact, which I have never seen at least in my neck of the woods.
Well St. Louis is hardly the South though it appears many Baptists do live in Missouri [surprisingly].
Unfortunately it appears that some Baptists are quite outspoken for things that are disturbing to many [against stem cell research, gay rights, science, separation of church & state, etc].
The person just said what he saw there and you know that, He did not make the place or the bible belt, I don't see why you should be insulted. I don't think many would be insulted if you went to New York and noticed you didn't have a comfort level, most would understand you were not from there. However it does not give a very welcoming feeling to the person. Case in Point though, I think if the USA does not find a way to make this multi cultural country work alot better than it does now , this is my scenario. At some point in the future, the differences in culture will make it obvious the USA is not acting like states that are united at all and will split up.
I believe it already did that and the sinful part won the war.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
