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This guy doesn't even know his own city that well, so why would you expect him to know anything about other cities? Why keep on arguing with him if he's incapable of bringing up anything reasonable?
This guy doesn't even know his own city that well, so why would you expect him to know anything about other cities? Why keep on arguing with him if he's incapable of bringing up anything reasonable?
So were you gonna tell us the innovation that LA came up with you were talking about a few days ago? I'm still kind of interested to know what it is.
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
I'm also not surprised that none of you angelenos have mentioned its most influential export to the rest of the US in this entire topic. Not too surprising since this board seems dominated by the monstrously incurious who can't cite more than the barest stereotypes.
They are all from Englewood, NJ. Their label was called "Sugar Hill", probably named after the Sugar Hill section of Harlem. So the world can thank NJ for rap/hip-hop.
The Sugarhill Gang is an American Hip Hop group, known mostly for their biggest hit, "Rapper's Delight", the first hip hop single recorded to become a Top 40 hit. The song uses the instrumental track from "Good Times" by Chic as its foundation.
The members, all from Englewood, NJ, called themselves Wonder Mike, Big Bank Hank, and Master Gee. They were assembled into a group by producer Sylvia Robinson who also founded Sugar Hill Records along with her husband, record mogul Joe Robinson.Contents
History
This pioneering group inaugurated the recorded history of hip-hop with their single "Rapper's Delight", a multi-platinum seller and radio hit in 1980. Englewood, NJ-based producer and indie label owner Sylvia Robinson had become aware of the massive hip-hop block parties occurring around the New York City area during the late '70s, so she gathered three locals from her town of Englewood, New Jersey: Guy O'Brien, who was the original Master Gee; another local rapper, Michael Wright, who called himself Wonder Mike, and Big Bank Hank. The vocalists were then teamed up with three session musicians, including future Living Colour bassist Doug Wimbish, guitarist Skip McDonald a/k/a Little Axe and drummer Keith LeBlanc. Together, they recorded all of the Sugarhill Gang’s work. Also, Jonathon Arnold Merrill is also credited for editing the recordings, and also contributed to vocals. He was considered the first producer to be a part of the recordings, and is often quoted by Timbaland to be his greatest influence.
never once did i say they aren't part of the city ...but when other people think of the city they aren't thinking of boring staten island or 3rd world bronx...they think that little 12 mile island.
Again, you're being ignorant with these kinds of statements. When people think of NY City, and when they visit, they go to places like The Bronx Zoo, the NY Botanical Gardens, Coney Island, Yankee Stadium and CitiField, the NY Aquarium, The American Museum of the Moving Image, Flushing Meadow Park, Fort Wadsworth, Alice Austens House, and many other points of interest which are outside of Manhattan.
The lion's share of attractions are definitely in Manhattan but the outer boroughs are not ignored by travelers; well, not by astute, intelligent travelers, anyway. Just as in L.A. you have tourists who go to Hollywood and Beverly Hills and think that's all there is to L.A., we also have people who go to Midtown Manhattan and lower Manhattan and think that's all there is to NYC; in both cases, however, it's a result of ignorance. Don't make the mistake of thinking that NYC is only Manhattan in the minds of any people who are even somewhat intelligent, because it simply isn't the case.
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesNightmare
i just mentioned the south because of the whole "hip hop" thing kony was talking about...lol ...acting like they still running things...never said california did that did i? ya just ASSUME
To base the worth of a city on its hip-hop scene is not only ignorant but very ghetto. With that mindset, Chicago must be better than L.A. and NYC combined because they have the Jerry Springer show and out-ghetto all of us with just that.
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesNightmare
L.A is wayyyy better... aint it rainin over in the east right now or somethin? i can tell why ya maddd lolll...have fun
L.A. definitely has better weather overall. So what? So does Damascus, Syria but I wouldn't want to live there.
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesNightmare
very correct....they mad at any kind of competition ... so they pretend like the powerhouse on the sunny coast doesn't exist. Like I said, they live in the old days...they ride decayed train systems... lmao ..
I don't pretend L.A. isn't a powerhouse or doesn't exist, I usually stick up for L.A. even to the point of drawing ire from fellow NY/NJ folks. I even prefer L.A. slightly these days because I've been in the NYC area all my life and L.A. has more for me to explore and discover. I don't mind you sticking up for L.A. but you're just being ridiculously unreasonable in bashing NYC and saying things that just don't make sense at all.
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesNightmare
but wait L.A even has a SUBWAY..haha...its smaller and not many people use it but why would they when we can actually afford to drive in the warm weather ... we have EVERYTHING
L.A.'s subway isn't very good in that it doesn't reach enough of L.A. to be used as people's main form of transportation. In L.A. people drive cars because they need to. You don't have the option of effectively taking mass transit to anywhere you want to go. NYC's subway, not to mention the buses and commuter rails and its overall walkability, make NYC much easier to get around than L.A. During rush hour you don't sit in traffic on NYC's subways, you glide under all the mess. Going 5 miles on the subway takes the same amount of time no matter whether it's rush hour or not. No parking to pay for, no car to be broken into, no car payments, no insurance, no gas - getting around NYC is much better than getting around L.A. Not bad for "decayed train systems".
I live in NJ which is a lot more like L.A. We have everything spread out so that our mass transit can't cover the area, so everyone drives. The traffic builds up and we get delayed. Yes, I can afford a car, but I could afford a lot of other things if I weren't paying a few hundred a month for gas, tolls, insurance/registration, and maintenance.
NYC's transportation is the best, L.A. really can't compete with that. Neither can NJ. So what? No big deal, it doesn't mean I have to make up stories about NY having a "decayed train system". That's just desperate bashing which isn't even true.
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesNightmare
lol there goes kony again making new yorkers look unintelligent while attempting to sound intelligent....wouldn't italian culture be in ITALY ? lmao
There is much Italian culture throughout the NY/NJ area since so many Italians immigrated to here. Just as L.A. has a lot of Mexican and Asian culture.
Zoning in its modern sprawling 20th century form in America. NYC has a big part in zoning history, but it was geared towards redevelopment or further development on currently used lands. Los Angeles went balls-out and started zoning the hell out of everything whether developed or not and setting up categories, qualifiers, and "intensity" for development. Los Angeles's way of zoning paved the way for the zoning ordinances for much of the rest of the US throughout the 20th century with enormous consequences for how cities and their suburbs have developed (and of course, the lives and livelihoods of the people who live, work, and play in them). However, it looks like Hizzoner Bloomberg is making NYC zoning much more exciting, and oddly enough, Los Angeles seems to be taking a few hints and nudges from NYC.
There is much Italian culture throughout the NY/NJ area since so many Italians immigrated to here. Just as L.A. has a lot of Mexican and Asian culture.
hey bergen johnny i can respect your points..props on those given
but one thing please dont group "asians" all as one...
that's partly why new yorkers claim there is "no diversity" here in CA because they think what they have (jamaicans,puerto ricans,dominicans,chinese,italian,etc) outweighs what we have (latinos(NOT just mexicans...but salvadoreans,nicaraguans,etc etc) ..plus "asians" ...well "asia" is comprised of a ton of countries...we have koreans,japanese,filipinos,chinese,viets,thai,camb odians,lao,asian indians...plus all the middle easterners whom a ny'er might group as "arabs" such as lebanese,syrian,persians,palestians, etc etc
Well that's fine, I respect your opinion. But I think you would consider the vast majority of the music I listen to to be "hip hop" even though you might not consider the definition of my preference to be. 2pac was the prime example I used in my earlier post and I think you would be hard pressed to argue that his music was not hip hop, let alone the majority of the artists I listen to.
2pac was one of the greatest, he's a legend and I still listen to him all the time.
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Originally Posted by jman650
Would YOU not consider Too Short's music to be hip hop? I mean lyrically he's pretty weak, but I've always loved his sound, style and delivery. He's a good example of what I meant by considering lyricism secondary to the overall music. If you don't consider what he does to be hip hop then you'll need some other term to describe it along with a huge chunk of what is commonly classified as hip hop. I grew up with Too Short being considered a legend in hip hop back when there weren't all that many huge names to choose from, so intricate lyricism was not necessarily a requirement back in those days IMO.
I also think of Too Short as hip hop. I think you may have mis understood me and It's probably my fault as I'm not always the best with words. Hip Hop IMO is about the lyrics including the way they flow and too short was smooth. What I'm trying to say is the junk that coes from the south is basically all about a catchy hook and not whats in between.
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Originally Posted by jman650
Most of the "rap" I listened to in the 80s was pretty simplistic, like LL, Run DMC, Beastie Boys, Fat Boys, Will Smith (Fresh Prince), Planet Rock, Ice T, etc. It wasn't until later that I started noticing it getting more serious like BDP, Public Enemy, NWA, Eric B & Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, etc. But I would still consider all that simpler stuff to be hip hop.
Don't forget about Grand master Flash and the Furious Five.
By preferring what sounds good I'm not excluding lyricism; I'm just saying the level of lyricism doesn't dictate what I want to bump in my car or hear when I'm chillin. Its just music. And hip hop, to me at least, is a genre of music. So whatever sounds good to me is my preference. I don't think that should remove the status of "hip hop" from anyone's music. I get what you're saying about the mainstream crap that comes out of the South now as well as how different the Miami music was w/ 2 Live Crew, etc. But its all still hip hop to me, and if my opinion is somehow incorrect then the record stores should have classified it differently and MTV should not have played all of it on YO! MTV Raps when I was growing up. There needs to be clear parameters that define the limits of the East Coast model of hip hop if all the other differing styles are to be denied the status of being called "hip hop."
I said the south ruined it and I still feel that way. You disagree and thats what makes this fun. It would be boring if we always agreed on everything.
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Originally Posted by jman650
The main thing I don't care for about the emphasis on lyrics is when rappers are just doing wordplay w/o actually saying anything. Canibus is a prime example. Talking about riding a seahorse across the ocean floor to meet Poseidon or whatever he said, and anyone who raps like that I just can't get into. If they're gonna talk nonsense I at least want it to sound good. That's why I loved Bone Thugs. And DMX is (was) more my style when it comes to East Coast hip hop. Lost Boyz too. I primarily listen to Bay Area hip hop tho, and I do favor flow over lyrics. Andre Nickatina doesn't always make a lot of sense with what he says, but I'd still consider him to be a tight lyricist, his beats are SICK and overall he just sounds good. That's all I meant really. I can't stand 95% of the mainstream garbage that's out now, whether it be from the South or wherever else. And I agree that most of it is so bad that it SHOULD NOT be considered hip hop since that's insulting to good hip hop (especially just about anything with Lil' Wayne or T-Pain in it!), nor should it be selling so many of these garbage ass records (ahem, Souljah Boy!), but that's just what it has evolved into. Its a shame, but it is what it is.
[quote=BergenCountyJohnny;9357682]Again, you're being ignorant with these kinds of statements. When people think of NY City, and when they visit, they go to places like The Bronx Zoo, the NY Botanical Gardens, Coney Island, Yankee Stadium and CitiField, the NY Aquarium, The American Museum of the Moving Image, Flushing Meadow Park, Fort Wadsworth, Alice Austens House, and many other points of interest which are outside of Manhattan.
The lion's share of attractions are definitely in Manhattan but the outer boroughs are not ignored by travelers; well, not by astute, intelligent travelers, anyway. Just as in L.A. you have tourists who go to Hollywood and Beverly Hills and think that's all there is to L.A., we also have people who go to Midtown Manhattan and lower Manhattan and think that's all there is to NYC; in both cases, however, it's a result of ignorance. Don't make the mistake of thinking that NYC is only Manhattan in the minds of any people who are even somewhat intelligent, because it simply isn't the case.
To base the worth of a city on its hip-hop scene is not only ignorant but very ghetto. With that mindset, Chicago must be better than L.A. and NYC combined because they have the Jerry Springer show and out-ghetto all of us with just that.
[quote]
Good post, with good points. I was the one to bring up hip hop, which isnt ghetto by the way. I brought it up to point out that nyc actually creates pop culture. Like as in new yorkers themselves, not big money making machines and industries such as hollywood. The ones la seem to depend on
If New Yorkers don't recognize asian, hispanic, black, "arabs," etc. all consist of different peoples, then why would they trumpet NYC's diversity? There's no internal logic in there for you to argue a point. And the fact is, though there is a diversity of hispanic people in LA, it is still a Mexican majority (and a large majority) in the hispanic population whereas NYC simply has a Puerto Rican plurality with a large number and percentage of many other hispanic cultures. At least you almost made a point there.
hey bergen johnny i can respect your points..props on those given
but one thing please dont group "asians" all as one...
that's partly why new yorkers claim there is "no diversity" here in CA because they think what they have (jamaicans,puerto ricans,dominicans,chinese,italian,etc) outweighs what we have (latinos(NOT just mexicans...but salvadoreans,nicaraguans,etc etc) ..plus "asians" ...well "asia" is comprised of a ton of countries...we have koreans,japanese,filipinos,chinese,viets,thai,camb odians,lao,asian indians...plus all the middle easterners whom a ny'er might group as "arabs" such as lebanese,syrian,persians,palestians, etc etc
I grouped "asians" together for brevity. I am well aware of the various districts in L.A. for the various Asian ethnicities. I'm Armenian and I know that Little Armenia, in East Hollywood, borders on Thai Town. I often stay in Chinatown and visit Koreatown and Little Tokyo in L.A., too.
L.A. doesn't have a lot of Dominicans or Puerto Ricans compared to NYC, but they do have some. Same with Jamaicans or Hatians. L.A. of course has far more Mexicans, but yes, they have many South Americans also. Filipinos, although we have a lot here, also. We also have many Thai, Chinese, lots of Japanese, Korean, not so much Vietnamese or laotion or cambodian.
NY'ers would not call all middle easterners "arabs", I would know. I'm Armenian, and while our community here isn't as big as it is in L.A., people here know that we're not arabs, though we're close to them. NY has a lot of Lebanese, more than L.A. We have also many Jordanians, Syrians, Palestinians, and lots of Egyptians.
L.A. has the edge in certain asian ethnicities and in Mexicans and Armenians and Persians. NY has the edge in Italians, Irish, Jews (although L.A. has a lot of Jews, not quite as much as NY), and all the caribbean ethnicities. Obviously, we are much closer to the Caribbean, while L.A. is closer to Mexico.
I think this is one area where NY'ers and L.A.'os who don't know much about the other city think their city easily has the other beat in ethnic diversity, but both of these cities are the most ethnically diverse ones I have seen in the nation and only rival each other. NY'ers often don't realize how diverse L.A. really is, and L.A.'nos don't often realize how vastly diverse NYC is.
I wish I could set up an exchange with a Los Angelino - fresh hot pizza from here in exchange for some fish tacos from there.
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