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Old 03-12-2015, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR -> Rocky River, OH
702 posts, read 891,457 times
Reputation: 413

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I often fantasize about moving back to Cleveland. I see the rebirth happening from 2000 miles away and it kills me not to be a part of it. If you're buying, there's a good chance you're going to catch an upswing with all the $$$ being invested.

It has a realness to it, amazing cost of living, 4 seasons, hidden gem architecture, natural surroundings, and a certain spirit.

Ironically enough, I have moved from North Carolina (while in the military) to Cleveland to take a job before being transferred out to Portland.

Last edited by usaf_1832; 03-12-2015 at 09:00 PM..
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Old 03-12-2015, 09:25 PM
 
54 posts, read 38,074 times
Reputation: 107
I'd rather live in Cleveland than Raleigh--it has so much more of a sense of place! Good luck!
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Old 03-13-2015, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
20,862 posts, read 22,440,374 times
Reputation: 32599
Crazy? Not for me. I don't know about Raleigh last summer I relocated from Portland OR to Cleveland and it was anything but crazy. Best thing I could have done for myself.

As far as "wisdom of the crowds," let me give you some "wisdom of a one." I listen to the "wisdom of the crowd" and then do the complete opposite. I am 69 years old and this philosophy has never steered me wrong.
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Old 03-13-2015, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
29,617 posts, read 65,648,793 times
Reputation: 15050
People thought I was crazy for moving to Pittsburgh several years ago. Now we top numerous national rankings, and people finally understand the allure of this city. In similar fashion we're preparing for another trip to nearby Cleveland next month to partake in all of the wonderful offerings of that city.

I think the Rust Belt in general hit a "tipping point" about a decade ago where enough malcontents and undesirables finally moved away that those who remained because they generally loved their cities and wanted to see them reborn were able to press onward relatively unfettered. Now many people who moved to Charlotte, Raleigh, Phoenix, Northern Virginia, Orlando, etc. for warmer weather and/or job opportunities are seeing places like Cleveland and Pittsburgh booming again from afar and have become more idealistic that their hometowns really just might be a better fit overall than the "next big thing" they followed south of the Mason-Dixon Line.
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Old 03-13-2015, 12:22 PM
Status: "Ready for Fall" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Atlanta
4,644 posts, read 3,012,162 times
Reputation: 3857
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising View Post
I think the Rust Belt in general hit a "tipping point" about a decade ago where enough malcontents and undesirables finally moved away that those who remained because they generally loved their cities and wanted to see them reborn were able to press onward relatively unfettered.
Wow! Malcontents and undesirables, huh?

Millions of people left the region due to the economy being wiped out. They really had no choice, including my parents.

As someone that grew up in the Cleveland area, I am thrilled at the rebirth happening there. But let's not throw ridiculous labels around that have nothing to do with the reality on the ground over the past several decades.
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Old 03-13-2015, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
29,617 posts, read 65,648,793 times
Reputation: 15050
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
Wow! Malcontents and undesirables, huh?

Millions of people left the region due to the economy being wiped out. They really had no choice, including my parents.

As someone that grew up in the Cleveland area, I am thrilled at the rebirth happening there. But let's not throw ridiculous labels around that have nothing to do with the reality on the ground over the past several decades.
Everyone has a choice. There were (and are) opportunities to become entrepreneurial, even in Pittsburgh after the steel industry's collapse. I'm underemployed right now relative to my level of education, but I'm working many hours to save enough start-up capital to open my own business venture so I can be my own boss and create opportunities for others, too, in the process.

Your parents could have stayed in Cleveland and both worked full-time, underemployed, in order to raise you and yours in the city they loved, albeit while struggling financially in the process. My father, an IT manager, worked two jobs---one at a grocery store and one at a gas station---to provide for us when he was laid off by IBM in the early-2000s until he eventually found something more commensurate with his level of experience and expertise.

There are more important things than jobs and money in this world. I threw away a promising career because I wanted to LIVE where I wanted to live, and I've been making it work for myself. I'm much happier now living in Pittsburgh instead of withering away near DC "with the good job". I could move out of Pittsburgh and use my intellect to earn a six-figure salary in a much larger area with a much higher cost-of-living and a much higher level of stress/anxiety to accompany it. Why would anyone want to do that, though?
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Old 03-13-2015, 12:40 PM
Status: "Ready for Fall" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Atlanta
4,644 posts, read 3,012,162 times
Reputation: 3857
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising View Post
Everyone has a choice. There were (and are) opportunities to become entrepreneurial, even in Pittsburgh after the steel industry's collapse. I'm underemployed right now relative to my level of education, but I'm working many hours to save enough start-up capital to open my own business venture so I can be my own boss and create opportunities for others, too, in the process.

Your parents could have stayed in Cleveland and both worked full-time, underemployed, in order to raise you and yours in the city they loved, albeit while struggling financially in the process. My father, an IT manager, worked two jobs---one at a grocery store and one at a gas station---to provide for us when he was laid off by IBM in the early-2000s until he eventually found something more commensurate with his level of experience and expertise.

There are more important things than jobs and money in this world. I threw away a promising career because I wanted to LIVE where I wanted to live, and I've been making it work for myself. I'm much happier now living in Pittsburgh instead of withering away near DC "with the good job". I could move out of Pittsburgh and use my intellect to earn a six-figure salary in a much larger area with a much higher cost-of-living and a much higher level of stress/anxiety to accompany it. Why would anyone want to do that, though?
No. This is a huge oversimplification of what took place. There was no way to do this for the vast numbers of people that were displaced by the almost total economic collapse of the region. You simply can not impose your experience on the millions of people that were forced to leave.

And as a native Floridian, my Mother hated Cleveland and cried for joy when we left.
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Old 03-13-2015, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
29,617 posts, read 65,648,793 times
Reputation: 15050
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
No. This is a huge oversimplification of what took place. There was no way to do this for the vast numbers of people that were displaced by the almost total economic collapse of the region. You simply can not impose your experience on the millions of people that were forced to leave.

And as a native Floridian, my Mother hated Cleveland and cried for joy when we left.
Good for your mother for hating Cleveland and leaving instead of hating Cleveland and sticking around so those who LOVED Cleveland could have an easier time trying to revitalize it without bitter people around.

People often just aren't willing to make personal financial sacrifices during economic downturns. The national unemployment rate was 10% just a few years ago. It wasn't much higher than that in Cleveland or Pittsburgh in the 1980s when their former primary industries went belly-up. Even during the "Great Recession" when the unemployment rate was indeed 10% I had a very hard time recruiting people to work for our business as delivery drivers because it was easier for the long-term unemployed to bellyache for month after month "there's no jobs" (as I beat them over the head with "Help Wanted" signs) and collecting unemployment because they wanted to instantly make the same salary they made before they were laid off instead of actually taking jobs "beneath" them and working hard to scrape by until conditions improved, like my father did and like I'm doing now until I have enough saved to open my business venture here in Pittsburgh.

How many former steel workers just spouted sour grapes in the 1980s instead of trying to get retrained, going back to school, working two menials jobs concurrently to make what they were making at their one former job, etc.? It was a path of lesser resistance to leave Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown, Pittsburgh, New Castle, Altoona, Wheeling, etc. in the dust to follow the promise of "more money" in the Sunbelt than to get all "bootstrappy" to make a go of it in the city they all lived in.

So the mill laid you off and went belly-up. You were making $50,000/year as a foreman. What was stopping those people from making $25,000/year doing something else; working a second part-time gig at night as a bartender, janitor, server, delivery driver, etc. for $15,000/year, and learning to live on that $40,000/year vs. $50,000/year while looking for something better, getting retrained, going back to school, opening a business, etc.?

As long as I'm physically able-bodied to work and earn a living for myself I don't mind working menial positions in order to nobly get myself by in a city I love instead of abandoning the city like so many others did.
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Old 03-13-2015, 01:04 PM
Status: "Ready for Fall" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Atlanta
4,644 posts, read 3,012,162 times
Reputation: 3857
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising View Post
Good for your mother for hating Cleveland and leaving instead of hating Cleveland and sticking around so those who LOVED Cleveland could have an easier time trying to revitalize it without bitter people around.

People often just aren't willing to make personal financial sacrifices during economic downturns. The national unemployment rate was 10% just a few years ago. It wasn't much higher than that in Cleveland or Pittsburgh in the 1980s when their former primary industries went belly-up. Even during the "Great Recession" when the unemployment rate was indeed 10% I had a very hard time recruiting people to work for our business as delivery drivers because it was easier for the long-term unemployed to bellyache for month after month "there's no jobs" (as I beat them over the head with "Help Wanted" signs) and collecting unemployment because they wanted to instantly make the same salary they made before they were laid off instead of actually taking jobs "beneath" them and working hard to scrape by until conditions improved, like my father did and like I'm doing now until I have enough saved to open my business venture here in Pittsburgh.

How many former steel workers just spouted sour grapes in the 1980s instead of trying to get retrained, going back to school, working two menials jobs concurrently to make what they were making at their one former job, etc.? It was a path of lesser resistance to leave Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown, Pittsburgh, New Castle, Altoona, Wheeling, etc. in the dust to follow the promise of "more money" in the Sunbelt than to get all "bootstrappy" to make a go of it in the city they all lived in.

So the mill laid you off and went belly-up. You were making $50,000/year as a foreman. What was stopping those people from making $25,000/year doing something else; working a second part-time gig at night as a bartender, janitor, server, delivery driver, etc. for $15,000/year, and learning to live on that $40,000/year vs. $50,000/year while looking for something better, getting retrained, going back to school, opening a business, etc.?

As long as I'm physically able-bodied to work and earn a living for myself I don't mind working menial positions in order to nobly get myself by in a city I love instead of abandoning the city like so many others did.
How nice for you. Again, there were MILLIONS of people that left. There was absolutely NO opportunity for them, and places like Cleveland & Pittsburgh could not even today support their former populations if they all returned.

You can't speak for the massive amounts of people that were FORCED to move, no matter how proud you are of the region.
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Old 03-13-2015, 01:15 PM
 
27,724 posts, read 24,737,149 times
Reputation: 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising View Post
So the mill laid you off and went belly-up. You were making $50,000/year as a foreman. What was stopping those people from making $25,000/year doing something else; working a second part-time gig at night as a bartender, janitor, server, delivery driver, etc. for $15,000/year, and learning to live on that $40,000/year vs. $50,000/year while looking for something better, getting retrained, going back to school, opening a business, etc.?

As long as I'm physically able-bodied to work and earn a living for myself I don't mind working menial positions in order to nobly get myself by in a city I love instead of abandoning the city like so many others did.
Maybe it's because most people love their families more than the city they reside in?
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