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Can you stop posting this garbage map? The fact that planes are going to Austin/Houston and not Paris means the map doesn't tell much at all and Paris has global appeal.
The planes are actually leaving Houston. Look a little closer
I'll went and manually searched for each and every "ultra luxury" home sale in the Bay Area. $20mm is considered "ultra luxury" there, of course. Not in the other cities.
The San Francisco Bay Area:
In 2014, there were only 3 homes that sold above $20mm:
336 Iris Way, Palo Alto $22,000,,000 sold on 12/12/14,
131 Britton Ave Atherton $20,00,000 sold on 11/20/2014
15 Hidden Valley Ln Woodside $25,00,000 on 09/02/2014
201 Manzanita Way $25,000,000 sold on 03/26/2014
In 2013, there were no homes in the Bay Area sold for above $20mm.
In2012, there were only four homes that sold for above 20mm.
267 Camilo Al Lago Atherton CA, $27,000,000 sold on 11/12/2012
70 Barry Lane San Francisco, CA $21,750,000 Sold on 08/08/2012
201 Manzanita Way San Francisco, CA $25,000,000 sold on 03/26/2014.
267 Camilo Al Lago Atherton CA, $27,000,000 sold on 11/12/2012
There had never been a single home sale for above $30mm, until trigger-happy techie Yuri Milner swept in and overpaid on a house that isn't even worth 50% of what it's worth now.
LOL. In comparison, New York has sold 5x as many 20mm home sales in the three freaking months of calendar year 2015, than the Bay Area has seen in three years. Miami Beach has sold that many $20mm homes in 6 months. London, clearly is par with New York, as is the other luxury locales I taught you about a page back. The real real estate market would probably describe their situation as a great depression if they only sold 3 20MM+ homes on average per year.
Ugh. Dire. And the Bay Area folks in here are stil trying to pretend the Bay Area is any sort of luxury destination.
Teach us more! I'm learning a lot.
Also, your list is all wrong, on so many levels.
For one, quick Google searches lead to higher numbers than you report (and your 2012 list is missing some and seems to include some from your 2014 list).
Secondly, Barry Lane is in Atherton, not SF. Also, there is no "Manzanita Way" in SF - that's in Woodside. I could probably go on.
You're right - more luxury real estate is bought and sold in Miami, New York, LA, and London. However, none of the other points brought up in this debate are false:
SF real estate is a relative mystery compared to these other markets. Sales are shrouded in mystery. Nobody knows who's buying, if a home is on the market or not, etc etc. This may sound like a stupid thing to you, but the length people go in the Bay Area to conceal their purchases is probably way more extreme on average than any other city in the country.
Part of this is the dynamic of the city, which is a constant clash between old money and new money, anarchists and capitalists, and an economy that itself is defined on M&A, a very secret, transactional aspect of business. Part of this is the fact that unlike Miami where everything is gated, nothing in SF is gated, and even in Pac Heights you could be living across the street from projects (due to mixed-income nature of city) and have homeless sleeping on the sidewalk in front of your house (let alone mobile anarchists or activists who oppose your corporation or whatever it is you're doing).
Finally, on a per square foot basis, Miami is much cheaper than San Francisco/Bay Area, despite that stupid list you keep bringing up. People in the area have *totally* different wants than people in South FL. People in South FL want big house on waterfront (despite hurricane risk...again, the State of FL banned the term "Climate Change", so that's what we're dealing with here). People in SF want a decent amount of space and a view, especially the latter (could come from elevation change versus high rise condo), but as crowded as the city is and as expensive as land is, you're simply not going to find many 10,000+sf homes, even in Pacific Heights. A mansion is 3,000 sf in SF. And in Marin and San Mateo, the really expensive stuff is moreso about the LAND than the home. Lots of buyers care little to have some 20,000 sf mcmansion, but they want beautiful land and a decent sized home (5-10,000 sf). You can grow grapes and/or have a yard, which is just a much bigger deal in the Bay Area than in South FL, because it's not as common.
So yea, "luxury" takes on a whole other meaning. The three other things not mentioned, as well, are Napa/Sonoma, CA Country, and Carmel. All of these have totally different appeals than South FL. But all three attract elite, royalty, and super rich from around the world. A mansion in Carmel is often going to be more modest than a mansion in Miami. For instance, a mere 5,803 sf home on 17 Mile Drive in Pebble Beach is listed for $10.0M. Built in 1965 and needs updating.
edit: just exploring, I see a 8,300 sf home built in 1981 for $22M listed (comes with 2.42 acres on 17 Mi Dr, which is the kicker) and 10,136 sf home built in 1961 listed for $23M (comes with 3.41 acres on 17 Mi Dr). Another 8k sf home listed for $23M (2.8 ac). Compared to what you get in Miami/Miami Beach for the same price, not as luxurious, but you get more land, more privacy, and probably more exclusivity.
Just a totally different market than South FL. But trying to explain other parts of the world to someone who lives in Miami and understands only all things Miami/Latin America is like talking to a wall.
Last edited by anonelitist; 03-31-2015 at 03:25 PM..
Doesn't that confirm what I said? That the Bay Area's ultra luxury market is paltry? And large sales are exceedingly rare, and happen once every decade or so? Want to know why? It's just not fabulous enough to have a steady stream of luxury home sales.
It doesn't appeal to the people on this map:
(Hence San Francisco ranking #19 on most important cities to the global rich while Miami ranked #6 )
hahahaha you keep getting owned and just wont quit. Gold star for effort.
oh, and Miami is clearly verrrrrrrrrrry important to Venezuelan drug lords.
For one, quick Google searches lead to higher numbers than you report (and your 2012 list is missing some and seems to include some from your 2014 list).
Secondly, Barry Lane is in Atherton, not SF. Also, there is no "Manzanita Way" in SF - that's in Woodside. I could probably go on.
You're right - more luxury real estate is bought and sold in Miami, New York, LA, and London. However, none of the other points brought up in this debate are false:
SF real estate is a relative mystery compared to these other markets. Sales are shrouded in mystery. Nobody knows who's buying, if a home is on the market or not, etc etc. This may sound like a stupid thing to you, but the length people go in the Bay Area to conceal their purchases is probably way more extreme on average than any other city in the country.
Part of this is the dynamic of the city, which is a constant clash between old money and new money, anarchists and capitalists, and an economy that itself is defined on M&A, a very secret, transactional aspect of business. Part of this is the fact that unlike Miami where everything is gated, nothing in SF is gated, and even in Pac Heights you could be living across the street from projects (due to mixed-income nature of city) and have homeless sleeping on the sidewalk in front of your house (let alone mobile anarchists or activists who oppose your corporation or whatever it is you're doing).
Finally, on a per square foot basis, Miami is much cheaper than San Francisco/Bay Area, despite that stupid list you keep bringing up. People in the area have *totally* different wants than people in South FL. People in South FL want big house on waterfront (despite hurricane risk...again, the State of FL banned the term "Climate Change", so that's what we're dealing with here). People in SF want a decent amount of space and a view, especially the latter (could come from elevation change versus high rise condo), but as crowded as the city is and as expensive as land is, you're simply not going to find many 10,000+sf homes, even in Pacific Heights. A mansion is 3,000 sf in SF. And in Marin and San Mateo, the really expensive stuff is moreso about the LAND than the home. Lots of buyers care little to have some 20,000 sf mcmansion, but they want beautiful land and a decent sized home (5-10,000 sf). You can grow grapes and/or have a yard, which is just a much bigger deal in the Bay Area than in South FL, because it's not as common.
So yea, "luxury" takes on a whole other meaning. The three other things not mentioned, as well, are Napa/Sonoma, CA Country, and Carmel. All of these have totally different appeals than South FL. But all three attract elite, royalty, and super rich from around the world. A mansion in Carmel is often going to be more modest than a mansion in Miami. For instance, a mere 5,803 sf home on 17 Mile Drive in Pebble Beach is listed for $10.0M. Built in 1965 and needs updating.
edit: just exploring, I see a 8,300 sf home built in 1981 for $22M listed (comes with 2.42 acres on 17 Mi Dr, which is the kicker) and 10,136 sf home built in 1961 listed for $23M (comes with 3.41 acres on 17 Mi Dr). Another 8k sf home listed for $23M (2.8 ac). Compared to what you get in Miami/Miami Beach for the same price, not as luxurious, but you get more land, more privacy, and probably more exclusivity.
Just a totally different market than South FL. But trying to explain other parts of the world to someone who lives in Miami and understands only all things Miami/Latin America is like talking to a wall.
Hahahahahahahahahha.
My list stings so bad that you're nitpicking on the misplaced locales. I corrected it for you, boo.**I replaced San Francisco with Atherton and Woodside but the facts still remain. In any case, what you're telling me is the Bay Area is the only place in the world with these "secret" deals. Oh, stop it. There are no such thing as secret deals. Every single real estate transaction eventually hits public record.
I know you're trying to convince yourself of these things to save your argument and your deep homerism of your city but just stop for a minute, breathe, and pretend you were some foreign (hell, even domestic) billionaire who has and only wants the finest things in life. You want somewhere exciting, glamorous and teetering with luxury amenities. Also, you like being around your other peers who are buying homes. Are you honestly telling me you'd pass up NYC, Miami Beach, London, Beverly Hills, Paris, South of France and buy a home in the the dull Bay Area, of all places? Stop lying to yourself.
You wouldn't, and I would not blame you at all. You would go where everyone else goes. The best places:
^^^Why do you post and write exactly like SDPMiami? And you joined in Mar 2015. And SDPMiami called you a "good guy". And SDPMiami claimed "mods can check IPs, we aren't same person" when I called you out (as if anyone is going to go through the trouble because they care so much and as if there aren't ways around using different IPs, especially for someone who supposedly is a coder for iOS off-site).
You are the same person. Shall I post a screenshot of the rep you game me and the comment that came with that a couple weeks back? You/SDPMiami have to be about the most extreme posters on here at this point - with a purpose to get a rise out of people. not sure how I buy it.
My list stings so bad that you're nitpicking on the misplaced locales. I corrected it for you, boo.**I replaced San Francisco with Atherton and Woodside but the facts still remain. In any case, what you're telling me is the Bay Area is the only place in the world with these "secret" deals. Oh, stop it. There are no such thing as secret deals. Every single real estate transaction eventually hits public record.
I know you're trying to convince yourself of these things to save your argument and your deep homerism of your city but just stop for a minute, breathe, and pretend you were some foreign (hell, even domestic) billionaire who has and only wants the finest things in life. You want somewhere exciting, glamorous and teetering with luxury amenities. Also, you like being around your other peers who are buying homes. Are you honestly telling me you'd pass up NYC, Miami Beach, London, Beverly Hills, Paris, South of France and buy a home in the the dull Bay Area, of all places? Stop lying to yourself.
You wouldn't, and I would not blame you at all. You would go where everyone else goes. The best places:
Billionaires 2015
San Francisco Bay 71
State of Florida 42
Ultra High Net Worth Individuals, $30M+, 2015
San Francisco Bay 5,400
State of Florida.4,600
I find it so funny that you try sooooo hard to downplay the fact that the Bay Area has more superrich people, by a very, very wide margin over not only Miami but the entire state of Florida.
LOL. In comparison, New York has sold 5x as many 20mm home sales in the three freaking months of calendar year 2015, than the Bay Area has seen in three years. Miami Beach has sold that many $20mm homes in 6 months. London, clearly is par with New York, as is the other luxury locales I taught you about a page back. The real real estate market would probably describe their situation as a great depression if they only sold 3 20MM+ homes on average per year.
Ugh. Dire. And the Bay Area folks in here are stil trying to pretend the Bay Area is any sort of luxury destination.
If your premise is that Miami has more $20M+ home sold than SF. No one would argue with you.
But then you made the leap to say that rich people don't like SF. Which is just plain stupid. A premise that has been thoroughly debunked with facts.
I got to hand it to you. Usually posters would just quietly slip away when all the facts on the ground is against him. But you, you just seem oblivious.
.
If your premise is that Miami has more $20M+ home sold than SF. No one would argue with you.
But then you made the leap to say that rich people don't like SF. Which is just plain stupid. A premise that has been thoroughly debunked with facts.
I got to hand it to you. Usually posters would just quietly slip away when all the facts on the ground is against him. But you, you just seem oblivious.
.
This
strangely correlates to this:
Listings of homes priced $10 million and above
Manhattan: 612
The Hamptons: 253
Miami-Dade: 239
Los Angeles County: 177
Greenwich:45
Aspen: 42
Naples: 37
Palm Beach: 28
Dallas: 20
Westchester County: 19
Honolulu: 19
Marin County: 17
Santa Clara County: 16
Atherton: 12
Brooklyn: 10
La Jolla: 10
San Francisco: 9
Santa Barbara: 9
Atlanta: 9
Newport Beach: 6
Houston: 6
Washington, DC: 6
Which also correlated to the Knight Frank study.
Hmmmm....... New York? Check! Miami? Check! London? Check! LA? Check! South of France? Check, please!
If your premise is that Miami has more $20M+ home sold than SF. No one would argue with you.
But then you made the leap to say that rich people don't like SF. Which is just plain stupid. A premise that has been thoroughly debunked with facts.
I got to hand it to you. Usually posters would just quietly slip away when all the facts on the ground is against him. But you, you just seem oblivious.
.
He wants us all to believe that some despotic oil tycoons and drug dealers are more important than the unstoppable list of local gazillionaires who basically drive the global economy at this time.
#fail
He already admitted that Miami is a city of secondary homes, and I find that so fitting.
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