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View Poll Results: What city is most poised to become another powerhouse of the South
Richmond, Va 27 9.96%
New Orleans, LA 24 8.86%
Nashville, TN 107 39.48%
Jacksonville, FL 14 5.17%
Louisville, KY 10 3.69%
Raleigh, NC 71 26.20%
Birmingham, AL 16 5.90%
Memphis, TN 2 0.74%
Voters: 271. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-16-2015, 02:54 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,895,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJayCB View Post
Raleigh and Nashville shouldn't be on the list. The Research Triangle and Nashville metros are already up there with Northern Virginia (If you include it in the South), Charlotte, Atlanta, Orlando, Austin, Dallas/Ft. Worth, etc. Even if they're a little smaller, they're definitely already up there.

Anyway, I'd probably pick Jacksonville. I'm sure it'll attract many transplants, if it hasn't already. Probably tons of retirees and folks escaping the cold in the Northeast. The glory days of Richmond seem to lie in the past, but I wish for the best because it's a fantastic city. The rest, I'm not really sure. Birmingham has been scarred by a horrific history that isn't anywhere near progressive, and I even saw a borderline white supremacist billboard outside the city driving in from Atlanta. Memphis has terrible crime, from what I've heard. New Orleans, too. As for Louisville, I have no idea.
Raleigh and Nashville have nowhere near the economic prowess of Atlanta and Dallas.Nor is it on the level of Northern Virginia.

Crime is an issue in those cities you mentioned but its not what has kept those cities back.It's the poor race relations as well as chronic poverty and corruption.
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Old 04-16-2015, 03:31 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,895,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
So besides your inexplicable hate for anything NC-related, how is Nashville "major league" and Raleigh not? And please, let's try not to go down the "Raleigh is boring, bland, blah blah blah" road...something substantive would be helpful here.
Well he kinda has a point.Raleigh can't support other professional sports than the Hurricanes.
Its been studied.

The Raleigh market has just enough personal income to support the Carolina Hurricanes, but the Triangle should forget about luring any other major professional sports teams to the area anytime soon.

Raleigh has only:
• 6 percent of the $86.7 billion in available personal income needed to support a Major League Baseball team,
• 14 percent of the $37.3 billion in available personal income needed to support a team from either the National Football League or the National Basketball Association, and
• 38 percent of the $13.9 billion in available personal income needed to support a Major League Soccer team.
DURHAM NOT A FACTOR

The bizjournals study covers the 81 markets in the United States and Canada with TPI in excess of $25 billion, as well as Green Bay, Wis., the only market below that threshold to have a major league team.
For the U.S. markets, bizjournals looked at the federally defined metropolitan statistical areas. The federal government separates the Triangle into two different MSAs: Raleigh-Cary and Durham. The Durham MSA, which includes Chapel Hill, fell below the $25 billion threshold. As such the Durham MSA was not counted in the bizjournals’ calculations.
“That doesn't make a whole lot of sense in your case, I know, but the flip side is even worse,” Thomas said in reply to an e-mail inquiry. “If I had used consolidated metros or economic regions, then I would have ended up with such things as Washington and Baltimore combined, which makes even less sense.”
Even if Durham had been factored in, it likely would not have made a difference in the conclusion that the Triangle doesn’t have the income base to support another top-level professional team, Thomas said.
“Previous rankings of mine that combined Raleigh and Durham showed that your area, in general, had an insufficient base for additional pro teams, which correlates with the latest study.”
CHARLOTTE OVEREXTENDED

The only other North Carolina city with top-level professional sports, Charlotte, was deemed as being overextended by its two teams – the NFL’s Carolina Panthers and the NBA’s Charlotte Bobcats. With total personal income of $66.31 billion, Charlotte fell $7.41 billion short of the TPI projected as needed to support an NFL team and an NBA team in the same market.

That was a report from 2009 but here is the current status of a newer report and its basically the same.
Raleigh-Durham is almost dead last.Well after Nashvlle and New Orleans for getting a Football and Baseball team.
It's does slightly better but still at the bottom as a city with the least ability to garner a professional NBA team.Again below Nashville.

Sports capacity ratings for five major professional sports - The Business Journals

Charlotte is not in this discussion but it says in the article that it is and overextended market.If Charlotte can barely hold on to its teams then it stands to reason Raleigh is not going to get one anytime soon.

For this reason I too think that Raleigh is very boring and bland albeit a great place to raise a family.
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Old 04-16-2015, 03:43 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,895,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvols View Post
Yeah....when you need to go anywhere in the world.

You fly non-stop to 54 airports from BNA...34 from Southwest alone. Most flyers are going domestic anyways. Of course if they need to go to Europe, ATL is where they will head...but you can get to most major US cities from Nashville.

And if the option is between flying Delta or Southwest, it's really not close. Delta is a terrible airline.
How you figure Delta is a terrible airline when it ranked #1 last year?
Sports capacity ratings for five major professional sports - The Business Journals

Also since Southwest bought out Airtran,it has a major presece in Atlanta also.

The routes to several African countries and Korea are also major routes.Not just Europe.Atlanta has one of the largest African born percentage in America and also one of the largest Korean populations.
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Old 04-16-2015, 03:51 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,895,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstick View Post
Nashville is clearly the winner here....Not even close with the other cities. Nashville is Major league, the others are not,,, even though a couple might have some major league teams repped. The least likely to get a major league team would be Birmingham, I could see Richmond or at least Hampton Roads get an NBA team.
I was torn between Nashville and New Orleans.New Orleans I always thought could have been where Atlanta is today.They have a port and its a well known city world wide BUT corruption destroyed that city,
However I do see a resurgence in how its finally growing and letting go of all that was holding it back before.

I think it actually is a close call because New Orleans is really getting much better.Still has a long way to go but so does Nashville.
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Old 04-16-2015, 04:48 AM
 
27,864 posts, read 24,945,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Well he kinda has a point.Raleigh can't support other professional sports than the Hurricanes.
Its been studied.

The Raleigh market has just enough personal income to support the Carolina Hurricanes, but the Triangle should forget about luring any other major professional sports teams to the area anytime soon.

Raleigh has only:
• 6 percent of the $86.7 billion in available personal income needed to support a Major League Baseball team,
• 14 percent of the $37.3 billion in available personal income needed to support a team from either the National Football League or the National Basketball Association, and
• 38 percent of the $13.9 billion in available personal income needed to support a Major League Soccer team.
DURHAM NOT A FACTOR

The bizjournals study covers the 81 markets in the United States and Canada with TPI in excess of $25 billion, as well as Green Bay, Wis., the only market below that threshold to have a major league team.
For the U.S. markets, bizjournals looked at the federally defined metropolitan statistical areas. The federal government separates the Triangle into two different MSAs: Raleigh-Cary and Durham. The Durham MSA, which includes Chapel Hill, fell below the $25 billion threshold. As such the Durham MSA was not counted in the bizjournals’ calculations.
“That doesn't make a whole lot of sense in your case, I know, but the flip side is even worse,” Thomas said in reply to an e-mail inquiry. “If I had used consolidated metros or economic regions, then I would have ended up with such things as Washington and Baltimore combined, which makes even less sense.”
Even if Durham had been factored in, it likely would not have made a difference in the conclusion that the Triangle doesn’t have the income base to support another top-level professional team, Thomas said.
“Previous rankings of mine that combined Raleigh and Durham showed that your area, in general, had an insufficient base for additional pro teams, which correlates with the latest study.”
CHARLOTTE OVEREXTENDED

The only other North Carolina city with top-level professional sports, Charlotte, was deemed as being overextended by its two teams – the NFL’s Carolina Panthers and the NBA’s Charlotte Bobcats. With total personal income of $66.31 billion, Charlotte fell $7.41 billion short of the TPI projected as needed to support an NFL team and an NBA team in the same market.

That was a report from 2009 but here is the current status of a newer report and its basically the same.
Raleigh-Durham is almost dead last.Well after Nashvlle and New Orleans for getting a Football and Baseball team.
It's does slightly better but still at the bottom as a city with the least ability to garner a professional NBA team.Again below Nashville.

Sports capacity ratings for five major professional sports - The Business Journals

Charlotte is not in this discussion but it says in the article that it is and overextended market.If Charlotte can barely hold on to its teams then it stands to reason Raleigh is not going to get one anytime soon.

For this reason I too think that Raleigh is very boring and bland albeit a great place to raise a family.
I thought his point went beyond major league professional sports; if that's all his point was about, then the Triangle being one of the nation's premier hotbeds for college athletics, especially basketball, is a huge factor here that can't be overstated.
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Old 04-16-2015, 05:36 AM
 
1,346 posts, read 1,164,029 times
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Oddly two of my picks aren't on the list.

I'd say Austin is poised to be the next TX giant, but I can see the argument for it having already arrived.

Charlotte should probably be on this list even though I personally don't like the way the parts of the city are oriented.

If we're talking just from the list it's easily Nashville or Raleigh. Probably Raleigh by a nose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockinmoz View Post
I don't know what's holding Richmond back, it should be a monster.
Richmond is...I don't know? It's so far under the radar still I think it has awhile. It'll probably beat out Louisville for all the people who are moving to Pittsburgh currently and will later become jaded with the burgh.

Not sure if the Tampa-St. Petersburg area has arrived, but look for this one to start making waves. Probably not as a hub though.

I'd put New Orleans as a wildcard. I think it'll continue as it has as a special destination city, but if they ever get their crime under control then all bets are off.

#1 Austin
#2 Raleigh/Nashville
#3 Charlotte
#4 Richmond
#5 Tampa?
#6 New Orleans
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:05 AM
 
371 posts, read 389,029 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Port Pitt Ash View Post
Oddly two of my picks aren't on the list.

I'd say Austin is poised to be the next TX giant, but I can see the argument for it having already arrived.

Charlotte should probably be on this list even though I personally don't like the way the parts of the city are oriented.

If we're talking just from the list it's easily Nashville or Raleigh. Probably Raleigh by a nose.



Richmond is...I don't know? It's so far under the radar still I think it has awhile. It'll probably beat out Louisville for all the people who are moving to Pittsburgh currently and will later become jaded with the burgh.

Not sure if the Tampa-St. Petersburg area has arrived, but look for this one to start making waves. Probably not as a hub though.

I'd put New Orleans as a wildcard. I think it'll continue as it has as a special destination city, but if they ever get their crime under control then all bets are off.

#1 Austin
#2 Raleigh/Nashville
#3 Charlotte
#4 Richmond
#5 Tampa?
#6 New Orleans
Could you explain your rationale behind Raleigh and Nashville at 2 in front of Charlotte? You've stated don't like Charlotte due to it's "orientation", but it's clearly a much larger economic engine than either Raleigh or Nashville, by quite a large margin.

The Charlotte MSA has roughly $40b more in GDP than both the Nashville CSA and the Raleigh Durham CSA. CLT is significantly more important than either RDU or BNA on both the domestic and international level. Of the 3, Charlotte is the only to offer legitimate rail mass transit (The Music City Star averages only 1225 riders per day compared to over 16,000 for LYNX) with another line currently under construction to push ridership figures above 25,000. Add to that the Street car line we open in a month. In terms of population, Charlotte is clearly larger than either two metros or CSA's by a fairly wide margin (500,000 more than Raleigh, close to 700,000 for Nashville) and all three are growing at roughly the same pace.

Culturally the argument can easily be made that Nashville is the most prominent of the 3, and both Raleigh and Nashville have the benefit of being state capitols with solid education institutions. But beyond that, I don't see what is driving your rationale, particularly in regards to a "HUB" designation.

What exactly leads you to the conclusion that Raleigh and or Nashville will both become a HUB for the south prior to Charlotte, or that Charlotte isn't already in that next tier with Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Orlando & Miami (arguably last with Orlando, followed by a decent gap to the big boys listed)?
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,895,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LosHogan View Post
Could you explain your rationale behind Raleigh and Nashville at 2 in front of Charlotte? You've stated don't like Charlotte due to it's "orientation", but it's clearly a much larger economic engine than either Raleigh or Nashville, by quite a large margin.

The Charlotte MSA has roughly $40b more in GDP than both the Nashville CSA and the Raleigh Durham CSA. CLT is significantly more important than either RDU or BNA on both the domestic and international level. Of the 3, Charlotte is the only to offer legitimate rail mass transit (The Music City Star averages only 1225 riders per day compared to over 16,000 for LYNX) with another line currently under construction to push ridership figures above 25,000. Add to that the Street car line we open in a month. In terms of population, Charlotte is clearly larger than either two metros or CSA's by a fairly wide margin (500,000 more than Raleigh, close to 700,000 for Nashville) and all three are growing at roughly the same pace.

Culturally the argument can easily be made that Nashville is the most prominent of the 3, and both Raleigh and Nashville have the benefit of being state capitols with solid education institutions. But beyond that, I don't see what is driving your rationale, particularly in regards to a "HUB" designation.

What exactly leads you to the conclusion that Raleigh and or Nashville will both become a HUB for the south prior to Charlotte, or that Charlotte isn't already in that next tier with Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Orlando & Miami (arguably last with Orlando, followed by a decent gap to the big boys listed)?
I agree with you that it makes no sense that Charlotte should be behind Nashville or Raleigh although I think its entirely possible that Raleigh will be on the level of Charlotte someday within the next 10-20 years.

Yet I disagree that Charlotte is nowhere on the level of Atlanta or especially Houston,
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:04 PM
 
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Downtown Raleigh is getting better, it comes across as rather quiet but it's not bland on Friday/Saturday nights. Tons of bars, trendy restaurants, music venues like Lincoln Theatre and Red Hat Amphitheater, some breweries, clubs around South Glenwood, etc. You can see downtown Raleigh is going down a path in the same neighborhood as Charlotte, Austin, and a few areas of Atlanta. Very trendy and modern, honestly quite preppy. The Wake County suburbs (North Raleigh, Cary, etc) are fine places to live, but of course they're typical suburban areas. We can't all live in Vegas or Manhattan, people. Still, I know a few younger folks who live in North Raleigh apartment complexes who drive downtown for entertainment, or maybe over to Chapel Hill. We're attracting the "yuppie" crowd here in Raleigh, don't come here and expect a dated/redneck city.

But anyway, the Research Triangle has far more in common with areas like Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, Austin, and Northern Virginia as opposed to Memphis, Birmingham, Richmond, Greenville (SC), Greensboro/Winston-Salem, etc. One direct flight leaves from RDU to London a day, that says a lot.
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJayCB View Post
Downtown Raleigh is getting better, it comes across as rather quiet but it's not bland on Friday/Saturday nights. Tons of bars, trendy restaurants, music venues like Lincoln Theatre and Red Hat Amphitheater, some breweries, clubs around South Glenwood, etc. You can see downtown Raleigh is going down a path in the same neighborhood as Charlotte, Austin, and a few areas of Atlanta. Very trendy and modern, honestly quite preppy. The Wake County suburbs (North Raleigh, Cary, etc) are fine places to live, but of course they're typical suburban areas. We can't all live in Vegas or Manhattan, people. Still, I know a few younger folks who live in North Raleigh apartment complexes who drive downtown for entertainment, or maybe over to Chapel Hill. We're attracting the "yuppie" crowd here in Raleigh, don't come here and expect a dated/redneck city.

But anyway, the Research Triangle has far more in common with areas like Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, Austin, and Northern Virginia as opposed to Memphis, Birmingham, Richmond, Greenville (SC), Greensboro/Winston-Salem, etc. One direct flight leaves from RDU to London a day, that says a lot.
Actually I think the Triangle is probably most similar to the Triad than any other metro. There's more than just breakneck growth and sprawl to consider here.
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