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View Poll Results: Is Philadelphia more urban than Chicago?
More urban 46 24.60%
Less urban 100 53.48%
About the same/don't know/don't care 41 21.93%
Voters: 187. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-10-2015, 08:49 AM
 
Location: The City
21,959 posts, read 30,853,672 times
Reputation: 7495

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Last time we had a thread like this, it went on for dozens of pages.

I think the bottom line is that Philadelphia is overall (discounting blight) more uniformly densely built across its entire city limits.

Still, Chicago is 70% larger by land area. So an argument can be made that if you took out the much more suburban fringes of Chicago, Chicago would be more urban. Certainly Chicago has a more intensely developed core in and around the Loop than Center City is in Philadelphia.
mostly fair, not sure "intensely" is the correct description. I would just say larger scale and larger core. In some ways Philly may be more compact in the core actually.

On the whole they are similar, both demonstrate highly urban form in the American context with their pluses and minuses would say pretty close and one could make argument for either yet I don't think either is really much more urban then the next albeit different builds.
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Old 04-10-2015, 09:12 AM
 
1,353 posts, read 1,138,841 times
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The argument that Philly is more urban because it has rowhouses and narrower streets should hold true against a Philly vs New York, a Philly vs Paris, a Philly vs [insert city here] thread, too, then right? So Philly is just about the most urban city on the face of the planet!
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Old 04-10-2015, 09:12 AM
 
11,020 posts, read 21,599,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_curious_urbanist View Post
Based on news and Census estimates it seems that Philly is rapidly growing in population while Chicago is stagnant or still shrinking (city limits only). .
Philly grew by 27K while Chicago grew by 23K.

I would hardly say one is "growing rapidly" while the other is "shrinking".

I would say the footprint of Chicago with 25,000+ people per square mile through the central area and the northwest/north sides is larger than the footprint of Philly with the same level of density/urbanity.

Chicago's overall density gets dinged a lot by having massive O'hare in the city limits with 14 square miles and a few thousand people, the Wolf Lake area void of most any development with around 14 square miles and then the huge old industrial tracts along I-55, Midway Airport, the suburban type fringes of the city, etc.
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Old 04-10-2015, 09:13 AM
 
8,223 posts, read 4,422,019 times
Reputation: 2723
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtypirate View Post
I love philly about as much as the other philly posters on this forum, but I am confused on where you are getting this idea that it is "rapidly growing". That just isn't true.. In terms of urban. Yeah probably would give the edge to philly for the miles of row houses making up a majority of the city even though Chicago has a much bigger core of skyscrapers and highrises. It isnt like Philly didn't try to build freeways with the vine street expressway. I think Philly could learn something from Chicago in terms of making those types of areas look nice.
Just to be clear, Philly is growing again after decades of loosing population. But it's not "rapidly growing".
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Old 04-10-2015, 09:31 AM
 
11,020 posts, read 21,599,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
Lol, an urban prairie is when a lot of buildings have been demolished and green space takes over, like a ghost town feel. Very common in the badlands of Detroit, St. Louis and Chicago.

Philly does not have. There are plenty of abandoned rowhomes, but there are hardly any areas void of structures that aren't designated parks.
Chicago has some very very notorious areas like that, but honestly overall they're a very small % of the overall city's residential fabric. Places like Garfield Park, Washington Park, North Lawndale and Englewood are poster childs for abandonment and some urban prairies (nothing like Detroit really except a few specific blocks). People tend to focus on the extreme abandonment and kinda forget the entire northern part of the city fully intact, the areas south of around 79th Street and west of Western on the south side that are fully intact. That's a huge majority of the residential areas of the city. Some have a lot of crime, but at the same time as far as void of structures and vacant lots - very few.

The south side especially, from a crime vs abandonment factor, the thought that the south side is a dump is far from reality overall. You can find very real examples, but the south side is huge, and most of it looks fine, although the crime can be quite high.

Areas of the west side of the city, while overall the smallest area of the city, show much more abandonment and empty lots because that's where the riots of 1968 swept through. Those areas around Garfield Park, etc. never recovered.
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Old 04-10-2015, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Center City, Philadelphia
4,561 posts, read 2,529,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonelitist View Post
The argument that Philly is more urban because it has rowhouses and narrower streets should hold true against a Philly vs New York, a Philly vs Paris, a Philly vs [insert city here] thread, too, then right? So Philly is just about the most urban city on the face of the planet!
what? Are you suggesting that most of Chicago looks anything like NYC or Paris?

Chicago Neighborhood away from the core: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ch...e0a6ad09c0c000

Philadelphian Neighborhood away from the core:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9154...3mNJPYgZ9g!2e0

Paris:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pa...0b82c3688c9460

NYC:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Br...765c7404007886

You tell me which one is the biggest outlier? Philly isn't close to the dense Parts of NYC or all of Paris. However it is closer to than Chicago is. Chicago has its own American style and form.
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Old 04-10-2015, 09:44 AM
 
Location: The City
21,959 posts, read 30,853,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtypirate View Post
what? Are you suggesting that most of Chicago looks anything like NYC or Paris?

Chicago Neighborhood away from the core: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ch...e0a6ad09c0c000

Philadelphian Neighborhood away from the core:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9154...3mNJPYgZ9g!2e0

Paris:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pa...0b82c3688c9460

NYC:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Br...765c7404007886

You tell me which one is the biggest outlier? Philly isn't close to the dense Parts of NYC or all of Paris. However it is closer to than Chicago is. Chicago has its own American style and form.
come on that Chicago image seems cherry picked


to elitist I am not sure anyone is purely saying the rowhouses are most urban but in this comparison a different construct. Of which I think an argument can be made here. To me they are both urban and think an argument could be made either way really
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Old 04-10-2015, 09:51 AM
 
11,020 posts, read 21,599,391 times
Reputation: 10654
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtypirate View Post
what? Are you suggesting that most of Chicago looks anything like NYC or Paris?

Chicago Neighborhood away from the core: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ch...e0a6ad09c0c000

Philadelphian Neighborhood away from the core:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9154...3mNJPYgZ9g!2e0

You tell me which one is the biggest outlier? Philly isn't close to the dense Parts of NYC or all of Paris. However it is closer to than Chicago is. Chicago has its own American style and form.
Well your Philadelphia example is 2.5 miles from downtown Philly and the Chicago example is 11.5 miles from downtown Chicago, so there's going to be a big difference there.

I mean if you want to go 2.5 miles from downtown Chicago you can easily have this:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=chica...12.22,,0,-5.85

Or if I go 11.5 miles in the opposite direction in Chicago I can have this:

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=r...132.18,,0,0.47

If I go 11.5 miles away from downtown Philly I can visit here

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=7707+...52.56,,0,-1.81

Or here

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=7707+...39.71,,0,-1.17


Anyone can find random examples of housing here and there. It does make a big difference if you're going 2.5 miles away from a large urban center or 11.5 miles away from a large urban center.
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Old 04-10-2015, 09:59 AM
 
2,601 posts, read 3,905,948 times
Reputation: 2275
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtypirate View Post
what? Are you suggesting that most of Chicago looks anything like NYC or Paris?

Chicago Neighborhood away from the core: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ch...e0a6ad09c0c000

Philadelphian Neighborhood away from the core:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9154...3mNJPYgZ9g!2e0

Paris:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pa...0b82c3688c9460

NYC:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Br...765c7404007886

You tell me which one is the biggest outlier? Philly isn't close to the dense Parts of NYC or all of Paris. However it is closer to than Chicago is. Chicago has its own American style and form.
I'd say your example is proof, that it's a good thing we can look for ourselves at Google Maps, and find our own examples.
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Old 04-10-2015, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Chicago
589 posts, read 584,678 times
Reputation: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtypirate View Post
Chicago Neighborhood away from the core: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ch...e0a6ad09c0c000

Philadelphian Neighborhood away from the core:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9154...3mNJPYgZ9g!2e0
Most ridicules thing I've seen on here in a while, sorry.
even if you travel 2.5 miles south in Chicago you would still get this
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8424..._hCt8K5Wuw!2e0
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