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Old 04-14-2015, 06:40 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
5,286 posts, read 4,163,750 times
Reputation: 4349

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDPMiami View Post
It's the metro area that counts. Not city limits. Look at Miami for example, standing at 400,000 because of such small city limits, far smaller than Jacksonville but ultimately the biggest metro in the state. And that includes standalone cities like Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach.

Houston's limits are so arbitrarily large, that who cares? If Dallas redrew it's boundaries to include Fort Worth, would that change anything on the ground? The answer is no unless you're a city employee.
The flaw in this logic is that you're still treating Fort Worth as if it's some common suburb, which it isn't. Dallas could not simply "redraw its boundaries" to include an entirely separate major city that's 30 miles away from its own core.

If the OP had asked "which is the first metro" then you might have a valid argument, but instead he's asked which is the first city. And so far the only argument you have for Dallas is the fact that its more popular.

 
Old 04-14-2015, 06:45 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
5,286 posts, read 4,163,750 times
Reputation: 4349
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDPMiami View Post
It's officially not part of Detroit's metro, but only the combined statistical area. It's a rather confusing distinction but it's there.
So who made the decision that MSAs count but not CSAs? Sounds rather "arbitrary" to me.
 
Old 04-14-2015, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Miami Beach, FL/Tokyo, Japan
1,699 posts, read 1,599,418 times
Reputation: 722
Quote:
Originally Posted by mega man View Post
If the OP had asked "which is the first metro" then you might have a valid argument, but instead he's asked which is the first city. And so far the only argument you have for Dallas is the fact that its more popular.
To me, it's clear that the 'area' is what counts. Otherwise, Miami would not be the primary city in Florida, if you just included the small city limits, and everyone knows that's ridiculous. The core city draws and feeds off her metro area. For example Galveston benefits from being in Houston's metro area, all those filled parking spots in the summer are from people living in Houston.

And everything counts to make it the second city, popularity, size, amenities. I contend that since Dallas-Fort Worth is part of an larger metro area it has a bit more of everything (except a Port ofc).

Now don't take this as me bashing Houston. I lived there for an year. And if given a choice again to live in either Houston or Dallas, it would be Houston without hesitation. I love the ocean, the climate, and just about most things of Houston over Dallas.
 
Old 04-14-2015, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Miami Beach, FL/Tokyo, Japan
1,699 posts, read 1,599,418 times
Reputation: 722
Quote:
Originally Posted by mega man View Post
So who made the decision that MSAs count but not CSAs? Sounds rather "arbitrary" to me.
If you go back to that post, you see that I qualified "if you want to consider Ann Arbor separate or not".

But MSA are a bit more important since they are based off commuting patterns first and foremost.
 
Old 04-14-2015, 07:12 AM
 
29,946 posts, read 27,406,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDPMiami View Post
But MSA are a bit more important since they are based off commuting patterns first and foremost.
So are CSAs; they just have a lower commuter threshold (15% compared to 25% for MSAs).
 
Old 04-14-2015, 07:45 AM
Status: "Get off my cloud !" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Beautiful Northwest Houston
5,103 posts, read 4,948,199 times
Reputation: 4176
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfoe View Post
Well from a pure history standpoint San Antonio is the historic city in Texas. But I think from a economically stand point Houston is the leader in Texas.
This is a good example of how people miss the point of this thread. San Antonio has the Alamo which is a more popular historical reference in most peoples minds . However the San Jacinto battleground was the more important historical event. Without the victory at San Jacinto the romance of the Alamo would have been lost to history because I doubt the Mexicans would have held those defenders in such high regard and the building itself may not have survived. The first time the battle cry "Remember the Alamo" was heard was at San Jacinto

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDPMiami View Post
City limits are arbitrary political lines on a map. Houston's metro includes separate cities like Galveston and Sugarland. However they're part of Houston's statistical area.

Likewise, Fort Worth is part of Dallas'.

I lived in Houston, never lived in Dallas. I've been to Dallas maybe twice. However as an outsider (non-Texan) I can say is

Dallas
Dallas
Dallas

Is the city that comes to mind when you think of Texas. Not Houston. Dallas is Texas' first city. Houston is not terribly far behind, but it is definitely behind.
You are talking about name recognition here which is not the essence of the OP. This name recognition has come from mostly pop cultural and fictional icons and has little if no bearing on the true socio-economic import of the two Metro's. This is about gravitas not a High School popularity contest

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDPMiami View Post
Ok, and Dallas still comes out higher (List of United States urban areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

1)New York-Newark (18.3 million)
2)Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim (12.2 million)
3)Chicago (8.6 million)
4)Miami (5.5 million)
5)Philadelphia (5.4 million)
6)Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington (5.1 million)
7)Houston (5 million)



The metros of both contain multiple cities. Isn't Galveston a city? Isn't Sugarland a city?



Correction, I've been to Dallas twice. And to Fort Worth, once.
These population figures you keep eluding to are insignificant in relative terms . Houston has more visitors, a higher international business and political profile, a bigger economy, and greater historical value.

Like several posters earlier have stated Greater Houston has a considerably larger economy than D&FW combined. The population difference does make DFW a larger media market which seems to be your sole criteria in your choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDPMiami View Post
To me, it's clear that the 'area' is what counts. Otherwise, Miami would not be the primary city in Florida, if you just included the small city limits, and everyone knows that's ridiculous. The core city draws and feeds off her metro area. For example Galveston benefits from being in Houston's metro area, all those filled parking spots in the summer are from people living in Houston.

And everything counts to make it the second city, popularity, size, amenities. I contend that since Dallas-Fort Worth is part of an larger metro area it has a bit more of everything (except a Port ofc).

Now don't take this as me bashing Houston. I lived there for an year. And if given a choice again to live in either Houston or Dallas, it would be Houston without hesitation. I love the ocean, the climate, and just about most things of Houston over Dallas.
It's clear you are using popular references as your sole criteria for your choice, but even with that in mind "Houston does not have a problem", "for the Eagle has landed". In other words when the manned space program gets back on track you will again have more popular references for Houston. I guess the more you hear the name Houston on TV the more credit you will give it, oh well..

BTW Houston has the 4th largest economy in the country DFW is 6th !

http://usmayors.org/metroeconomies/2014/06/report.pdf
 
Old 04-14-2015, 07:56 AM
 
Location: The Dirty South.
1,573 posts, read 1,430,903 times
Reputation: 1097
San Antonio has been around much longer than Houston and Dallas. A lot of events important to Texas happened there not just the Alamo. If I remember correctly Texas got its name from there. Where's TexasReb when you need him lol.

Last edited by mrfoe; 04-14-2015 at 08:05 AM..
 
Old 04-14-2015, 07:59 AM
 
Location: The Dirty South.
1,573 posts, read 1,430,903 times
Reputation: 1097
I wonder if a San Antonio vs Houston which is a better city poll. I wonder who would win. I know Houston is bashed a lot on here.
 
Old 04-14-2015, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Miami Beach, FL/Tokyo, Japan
1,699 posts, read 1,599,418 times
Reputation: 722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lance View Post

You are talking about name recognition here which is not the essence of the OP.
How do you know, do you read her mind?

One of her criteria is 'cool' what is 'cool' other than name recognition and media popularity? Also being a prominent city is largely about image. If people think of you as the biggest shot on the block, they treat you as the biggest shot on the block, and you are the biggest shot on the block.
 
Old 04-14-2015, 08:55 AM
 
29,946 posts, read 27,406,003 times
Reputation: 18529
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDPMiami View Post
How do you know, do you read her mind?

One of her criteria is 'cool' what is 'cool' other than name recognition and media popularity? Also being a prominent city is largely about image. If people think of you as the biggest shot on the block, they treat you as the biggest shot on the block, and you are the biggest shot on the block.
That doesn't necessarily reflect reality though. Even so, "cool" is but one criteria. I understand the argument for Dallas to an extent since it is the largest anchor city in the state's largest metro area, but I think some may be making too much of the "cool" factor, which is subjective anyway. Heck, Austin is really the cool kid on the block anyway--at least for right now.
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