U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-22-2015, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,702 posts, read 11,361,032 times
Reputation: 3539

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonelitist View Post
I don't find U City and Center City to be "seamless" the way that Center City is seamless with neighborhoods to the immediate south (nor do I find CC's connections to neighborhoods going north all that "seamless" either - it's really CC + South Philly that is the seamless transition). There are lots of vacant lots, shoddy buildings, a river, and a transit hub with however many lanes of rail and elevated roadway separating Center City's core with the walkable part of University City a mile away. It would be akin to the stuff Philly and other posters criticize Chicago of having around its downtown that effectively walls off its downtown core with surrounding areas.
Shoddy buildings and empty lots between Center City and University City? Uhhhh... where? These two areas are becoming pretty seamless and built up.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-22-2015, 07:38 PM
 
9,701 posts, read 6,686,232 times
Reputation: 9781
Philly definitely has one of the most seamless downtowns in the U.S. It's probably second to NYC in terms of transitioning from CBD to neighborhoods. SF and Boston and DC aren't quite as good.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-22-2015, 08:17 PM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,314,665 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut View Post
Shoddy buildings and empty lots between Center City and University City? Uhhhh... where? These two areas are becoming pretty seamless and built up.
SINCE WE ARE POSTING PICTURES PROVING POINTS..
I surely do understand. Defending Philly Center City .... by someone claiming it is not seamless to University City.

But not so much a need for many Philly backers? Needing to want to ADD University City to officially Downtown Philly?
When it is declared here... I could say Chicago should add Lincoln Park (Gold Coast) neighborhood? Which has additional Residential High-Rises, up along Chicago's Lakeshore. From official Downtown limits? It too is seamless.

The thing is.... Philly has...many blocks of merely Row home neighborhoods between City Hall and University City. But Near North Downtown Chicago and The Gold Coast area? Is seamless Skyscrapers and High-Rises. Most Residential. If Philly can include ALL these Row Home neighborhoods? As Center City already? They want to add this University City area? Chicago may as well add ?... All Near South to the University of Chicago Too?

I personally believe Downtown Chicago SHOULD INCLUDE THE GOLD COAST TO LINCOLN PARK IT'S SEAMLESS.... Picture proves it below.

THAT WOULD THEN CALL ALL IN THIS PICTURE DOWNTOWN CHICAGO. INSTEAD, you have too draw a line across the center of the picture, and ALL THIS SIDE OF THE BEACH ON THE LEFT, near the BIG JOHN HANCOCK ( triangular dark building) in the Picture, to the Bottom of this picture..... is not currently OFFICIAL Downtown Chicago. It sure is Seamless.

Attached Thumbnails
Philadelphia surpasses Chicago as the 2nd largest downtown in the US!-chicago-gold-coast-downtown_.jpg  

Last edited by steeps; 04-22-2015 at 08:42 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-22-2015, 08:23 PM
 
2,601 posts, read 3,904,920 times
Reputation: 2275
Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
SINCE WE ARE POSTING PICTURES PROVING POINTS..
I surely do understand. Defending Philly Center City .... by someone claiming it is not seamless to University City.

But not so much a need for many Philly backers? Needing to want to ADD University City to officially Downtown Philly?
When it is declared here... I could say Chicago should add Lincoln Park (Gold Coast) neighborhood? Which has additional Residential High-Rises, up along Chicago's Lakeshore. From official Downtown limits? It too is seamless.

The thing is.... Philly has...many blocks of merely Row home neighborhoods between City Hall and University City. But Near North Downtown Chicago and The Gold Coast area? Is seamless Skyscrapers and High-Rises. Most Residential. If Philly can include ALL these Row Home neighborhoods? As Center City already? They want to add this University City area? Chicago may as well add ?... All Near South to the University of Chicago Too?

I personally believe Downtown Chicago SHOULD INCLUDE THE GOLD COAST TO LINCOLN PARK IT'S SEAMLESS.... Picture proves it below.

THAT WOULD THEN CALL ALL IN THIS PICTURE DOWNTOWN CHICAGO. INSTEAD, you have too draw a line across the center of the picture, and ALL THIS SIDE OF THE BEACH ON THE LEFT, near the BIG JOHN HANCOCK ( triangular dark building) in the Picture, to the Bottom of this picture..... is not currently OFFICIAL Downtown Chicago. It sure is Seamless.

You forgot the picture.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-22-2015, 08:44 PM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,314,665 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by NowInWI View Post
You forgot the picture.
Hopefully that re-paste of the Picture and adding it as a attachment too. Worked
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-22-2015, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,386 posts, read 9,964,665 times
Reputation: 5230
Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
SINCE WE ARE POSTING PICTURES PROVING POINTS..
I surely do understand. Defending Philly Center City .... by someone claiming it is not seamless to University City.

But not so much a need for many Philly backers? Needing to want to ADD University City to officially Downtown Philly?
When it is declared here... I could say Chicago should add Lincoln Park (Gold Coast) neighborhood? Which has additional Residential High-Rises, up along Chicago's Lakeshore. From official Downtown limits? It too is seamless.

The thing is.... Philly has...many blocks of merely Row home neighborhoods between City Hall and University City. But Near North Downtown Chicago and The Gold Coast area? Is seamless Skyscrapers and High-Rises. Most Residential. If Philly can include ALL these Row Home neighborhoods? As Center City already? They want to add this University City area? Chicago may as well add ?... All Near South to the University of Chicago Too?

I personally believe Downtown Chicago SHOULD INCLUDE THE GOLD COAST TO LINCOLN PARK IT'S SEAMLESS.... Picture proves it below.

THAT WOULD THEN CALL ALL IN THIS PICTURE DOWNTOWN CHICAGO. INSTEAD, you have too draw a line across the center of the picture, and ALL THIS SIDE OF THE BEACH ON THE LEFT, near the BIG JOHN HANCOCK ( triangular dark building) in the Picture, to the Bottom of this picture..... is not currently OFFICIAL Downtown Chicago. It sure is Seamless.
Even without University City, Philly's downtown is still more populated than downtown Chicago. I have already proven this. So ultimately it's a losing argument to say that downtown Chicago is more populated than downtown Philly. Everyone that tried to prove me on this subject has failed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-22-2015, 09:00 PM
 
1,353 posts, read 1,137,967 times
Reputation: 790
That picture is taken from at least a mile away from an angle that hides from view:

http://goo.gl/maps/jE3NU

1) A river, thankfully narrow with riverwalks and pretty bridges, but the roads are very wide and the space a vast amount of concrete before a pedestrian catches shade, windbreaks, or places to go

2) On the E side there is definitely a 2-4 block buffer zone of a higher amount of decrepit buildings and vintage 60s/70s urban renewal mess/design (PECO building for one)

3) On the W side there is a hulking union station that is an island to itself for pedestrians and is more enjoyable to get to underground, and across the street is a post office. Additionally, there are blocks of surface lots, parking garages, and contained buildings (Cira Center for one), as well as a dearth of options (which is likely due to lack of pedestrians/apartments immediately there for good reason)

3a) Not to mention college playing fields bifurcated by elevated rail lines

3b) All connected by wide, barren roads without landscaping

4) Followed by a university campus or two or three and dorm towers

4a) Sprinkled in with some hospitals

THEN you get back to areas that are less institutional



I mean anyone can get on Google and check this out. For those saying University City is a seamless transition, OR the transition from CC to the neighborhoods on the Northside, is deluding themselves or being misleading. The Northside has some rough spots, bad sidewalks, wide roads, a highway to cross over (that should be capped like it is in Old City/Society Hill), surface lots and urban prairie areas, and then crime infested areas beyond that. Seamless? No.


The reason Philly gets nods for its "seamless transition" is because it is an elongated downtown with its best neighborhoods immediately to the south, so there is a ~2 mile "edge" of downtown that CAN seamlessly transition to the largely yuppie neighborhoods to the south.

But I wouldn't call that transition any more seamless than the transition of New York's business districts to its residential areas and I wouldn't call it any more seamless than San Francisco's neighborhoods into its business district with the exception of SOMA, which is sprouting up a lot more development than U City or Philly's northside right now and is already a better transition.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-22-2015, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,702 posts, read 11,361,032 times
Reputation: 3539
Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
SINCE WE ARE POSTING PICTURES PROVING POINTS..
I surely do understand. Defending Philly Center City .... by someone claiming it is not seamless to University City.

But not so much a need for many Philly backers? Needing to want to ADD University City to officially Downtown Philly?
When it is declared here... I could say Chicago should add Lincoln Park (Gold Coast) neighborhood? Which has additional Residential High-Rises, up along Chicago's Lakeshore. From official Downtown limits? It too is seamless.

The thing is.... Philly has...many blocks of merely Row home neighborhoods between City Hall and University City. But Near North Downtown Chicago and The Gold Coast area? Is seamless Skyscrapers and High-Rises. Most Residential. If Philly can include ALL these Row Home neighborhoods? As Center City already? They want to add this University City area? Chicago may as well add ?... All Near South to the University of Chicago Too?

I personally believe Downtown Chicago SHOULD INCLUDE THE GOLD COAST TO LINCOLN PARK IT'S SEAMLESS.... Picture proves it below.

THAT WOULD THEN CALL ALL IN THIS PICTURE DOWNTOWN CHICAGO. INSTEAD, you have too draw a line across the center of the picture, and ALL THIS SIDE OF THE BEACH ON THE LEFT, near the BIG JOHN HANCOCK ( triangular dark building) in the Picture, to the Bottom of this picture..... is not currently OFFICIAL Downtown Chicago. It sure is Seamless.
1st, you're preaching to the choir. I'm in the boat that Chicago has the second largest US downtown. I would even put San Francisco ahead of Philly, and put Philly at #4.

However, rowhome neighborhoods between Center City and University City? What? There are none. The only one block I can think of is the 2100 block of Walnut. I wouldn't call one block a hindrance between the seamless transition of Center City and University City however.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-22-2015, 09:37 PM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,314,665 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Even without University City, Philly's downtown is still more populated than downtown Chicago. I have already proven this. So ultimately it's a losing argument to say that downtown Chicago is more populated than downtown Philly. Everyone that tried to prove me on this subject has failed.
I gave points to validate Chicago's QUICK CATCH-UP in 30 years to Philly's DOWNTOWN RESIDENCE NUMBERS? Which still has added many to its numbers. The %s increases.... proved it. I pointed out how ...IF CHICAGO MERELY ADDED? THE GOLD COAST, SHOWED IN MY LAST PICTURE, AND PREVIOUS ONES? Its numbers would increase considerably too. IT SURE LOOKS LIKE IT SHOULD?

On the other hand... Philly has MANY BLOCKS OF MERELY ROW HOME AND COLONIAL HISTORIC AREAS? AS PART OF ITS DOWNTOWN. THEY REALLY DO NOT LOOK LIKE PART OF A DOWNTOWN. NYC HAS NEIGHBORHOODS BETWEEN MID-TOWN AND the ORIGINAL DOWNTOWN..... LOWER MANHTTAN? Because, the Concept of a Downtown today is a seamless area.
Philly had the area between the Rivers as Center-City Downtown, for nearly 200 years? The Row home areas were not merely included because University City became warranted to part of downtown now?

It is what it is... from statistics on growth, and %s? To Pictures and History of the Different cities in MANY MANY WAYS. One is More European in original design of housing? One is truly American in design and housing?

It's less denying the claim of your numbers? Then to put things in perspective... BECAUSE OF SOME.... EARLY IN THE THREAD? COMMENTED IN POSTS IT WAS ....ALL... A SIGN, AND BECAUSE OF CHICAGO'S DECLINE IN PROMINANCE TO IMPORTANCE?? RATHER THEN PHILLY'S REVIVAL AND GENTRIFICATION ALONE. I found it warranted.....to go into DEFENSIVE MODE AND OTHERS??? CHICAGO DID NOT DECLINE.

I never denied your numbers. But did show how they can be skewed and differences in %s of growth to how Chicago, easily could increase its numbers, and NO ONE COULD DENY THE AREA IT ADDS.... AS NOT LOOKING LIKE IT BELONGS?

Last edited by steeps; 04-22-2015 at 10:11 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-22-2015, 09:42 PM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,314,665 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut View Post
1st, you're preaching to the choir. I'm in the boat that Chicago has the second largest US downtown. I would even put San Francisco ahead of Philly, and put Philly at #4.

However, rowhome neighborhoods between Center City and University City? What? There are none. The only one block I can think of is the 2100 block of Walnut. I wouldn't call one block a hindrance between the seamless transition of Center City and University City however.
Correction.... I said Between CITY HALL AND UNIVERSITY CITY... The many blocks of row home neighborhoods.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top