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I don't find U City and Center City to be "seamless" the way that Center City is seamless with neighborhoods to the immediate south (nor do I find CC's connections to neighborhoods going north all that "seamless" either - it's really CC + South Philly that is the seamless transition). There are lots of vacant lots, shoddy buildings, a river, and a transit hub with however many lanes of rail and elevated roadway separating Center City's core with the walkable part of University City a mile away. It would be akin to the stuff Philly and other posters criticize Chicago of having around its downtown that effectively walls off its downtown core with surrounding areas.
Shoddy buildings and empty lots between Center City and University City? Uhhhh... where? These two areas are becoming pretty seamless and built up.
Philly definitely has one of the most seamless downtowns in the U.S. It's probably second to NYC in terms of transitioning from CBD to neighborhoods. SF and Boston and DC aren't quite as good.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,281,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut
Shoddy buildings and empty lots between Center City and University City? Uhhhh... where? These two areas are becoming pretty seamless and built up.
SINCE WE ARE POSTING PICTURES PROVING POINTS..
I surely do understand. Defending Philly Center City .... by someone claiming it is not seamless to University City.
But not so much a need for many Philly backers? Needing to want to ADD University City to officially Downtown Philly?
When it is declared here... I could say Chicago should add Lincoln Park (Gold Coast) neighborhood? Which has additional Residential High-Rises, up along Chicago's Lakeshore. From official Downtown limits? It too is seamless.
The thing is.... Philly has...many blocks of merely Row home neighborhoods between City Hall and University City. But Near North Downtown Chicago and The Gold Coast area? Is seamless Skyscrapers and High-Rises. Most Residential. If Philly can include ALL these Row Home neighborhoods? As Center City already? They want to add this University City area? Chicago may as well add ?... All Near South to the University of Chicago Too?
I personally believe Downtown Chicago SHOULD INCLUDE THE GOLD COAST TO LINCOLN PARK IT'S SEAMLESS.... Picture proves it below.
THAT WOULD THEN CALL ALL IN THIS PICTURE DOWNTOWN CHICAGO. INSTEAD, you have too draw a line across the center of the picture, and ALL THIS SIDE OF THE BEACH ON THE LEFT, near the BIG JOHN HANCOCK ( triangular dark building) in the Picture, to the Bottom of this picture..... is not currently OFFICIAL Downtown Chicago. It sure is Seamless.
SINCE WE ARE POSTING PICTURES PROVING POINTS..
I surely do understand. Defending Philly Center City .... by someone claiming it is not seamless to University City.
But not so much a need for many Philly backers? Needing to want to ADD University City to officially Downtown Philly?
When it is declared here... I could say Chicago should add Lincoln Park (Gold Coast) neighborhood? Which has additional Residential High-Rises, up along Chicago's Lakeshore. From official Downtown limits? It too is seamless.
The thing is.... Philly has...many blocks of merely Row home neighborhoods between City Hall and University City. But Near North Downtown Chicago and The Gold Coast area? Is seamless Skyscrapers and High-Rises. Most Residential. If Philly can include ALL these Row Home neighborhoods? As Center City already? They want to add this University City area? Chicago may as well add ?... All Near South to the University of Chicago Too?
I personally believe Downtown Chicago SHOULD INCLUDE THE GOLD COAST TO LINCOLN PARK IT'S SEAMLESS.... Picture proves it below.
THAT WOULD THEN CALL ALL IN THIS PICTURE DOWNTOWN CHICAGO. INSTEAD, you have too draw a line across the center of the picture, and ALL THIS SIDE OF THE BEACH ON THE LEFT, near the BIG JOHN HANCOCK ( triangular dark building) in the Picture, to the Bottom of this picture..... is not currently OFFICIAL Downtown Chicago. It sure is Seamless.
SINCE WE ARE POSTING PICTURES PROVING POINTS..
I surely do understand. Defending Philly Center City .... by someone claiming it is not seamless to University City.
But not so much a need for many Philly backers? Needing to want to ADD University City to officially Downtown Philly?
When it is declared here... I could say Chicago should add Lincoln Park (Gold Coast) neighborhood? Which has additional Residential High-Rises, up along Chicago's Lakeshore. From official Downtown limits? It too is seamless.
The thing is.... Philly has...many blocks of merely Row home neighborhoods between City Hall and University City. But Near North Downtown Chicago and The Gold Coast area? Is seamless Skyscrapers and High-Rises. Most Residential. If Philly can include ALL these Row Home neighborhoods? As Center City already? They want to add this University City area? Chicago may as well add ?... All Near South to the University of Chicago Too?
I personally believe Downtown Chicago SHOULD INCLUDE THE GOLD COAST TO LINCOLN PARK IT'S SEAMLESS.... Picture proves it below.
THAT WOULD THEN CALL ALL IN THIS PICTURE DOWNTOWN CHICAGO. INSTEAD, you have too draw a line across the center of the picture, and ALL THIS SIDE OF THE BEACH ON THE LEFT, near the BIG JOHN HANCOCK ( triangular dark building) in the Picture, to the Bottom of this picture..... is not currently OFFICIAL Downtown Chicago. It sure is Seamless.
Even without University City, Philly's downtown is still more populated than downtown Chicago. I have already proven this. So ultimately it's a losing argument to say that downtown Chicago is more populated than downtown Philly. Everyone that tried to prove me on this subject has failed.
1) A river, thankfully narrow with riverwalks and pretty bridges, but the roads are very wide and the space a vast amount of concrete before a pedestrian catches shade, windbreaks, or places to go
2) On the E side there is definitely a 2-4 block buffer zone of a higher amount of decrepit buildings and vintage 60s/70s urban renewal mess/design (PECO building for one)
3) On the W side there is a hulking union station that is an island to itself for pedestrians and is more enjoyable to get to underground, and across the street is a post office. Additionally, there are blocks of surface lots, parking garages, and contained buildings (Cira Center for one), as well as a dearth of options (which is likely due to lack of pedestrians/apartments immediately there for good reason)
3a) Not to mention college playing fields bifurcated by elevated rail lines
3b) All connected by wide, barren roads without landscaping
4) Followed by a university campus or two or three and dorm towers
4a) Sprinkled in with some hospitals
THEN you get back to areas that are less institutional
I mean anyone can get on Google and check this out. For those saying University City is a seamless transition, OR the transition from CC to the neighborhoods on the Northside, is deluding themselves or being misleading. The Northside has some rough spots, bad sidewalks, wide roads, a highway to cross over (that should be capped like it is in Old City/Society Hill), surface lots and urban prairie areas, and then crime infested areas beyond that. Seamless? No.
The reason Philly gets nods for its "seamless transition" is because it is an elongated downtown with its best neighborhoods immediately to the south, so there is a ~2 mile "edge" of downtown that CAN seamlessly transition to the largely yuppie neighborhoods to the south.
But I wouldn't call that transition any more seamless than the transition of New York's business districts to its residential areas and I wouldn't call it any more seamless than San Francisco's neighborhoods into its business district with the exception of SOMA, which is sprouting up a lot more development than U City or Philly's northside right now and is already a better transition.
SINCE WE ARE POSTING PICTURES PROVING POINTS..
I surely do understand. Defending Philly Center City .... by someone claiming it is not seamless to University City.
But not so much a need for many Philly backers? Needing to want to ADD University City to officially Downtown Philly?
When it is declared here... I could say Chicago should add Lincoln Park (Gold Coast) neighborhood? Which has additional Residential High-Rises, up along Chicago's Lakeshore. From official Downtown limits? It too is seamless.
The thing is.... Philly has...many blocks of merely Row home neighborhoods between City Hall and University City. But Near North Downtown Chicago and The Gold Coast area? Is seamless Skyscrapers and High-Rises. Most Residential. If Philly can include ALL these Row Home neighborhoods? As Center City already? They want to add this University City area? Chicago may as well add ?... All Near South to the University of Chicago Too?
I personally believe Downtown Chicago SHOULD INCLUDE THE GOLD COAST TO LINCOLN PARK IT'S SEAMLESS.... Picture proves it below.
THAT WOULD THEN CALL ALL IN THIS PICTURE DOWNTOWN CHICAGO. INSTEAD, you have too draw a line across the center of the picture, and ALL THIS SIDE OF THE BEACH ON THE LEFT, near the BIG JOHN HANCOCK ( triangular dark building) in the Picture, to the Bottom of this picture..... is not currently OFFICIAL Downtown Chicago. It sure is Seamless.
1st, you're preaching to the choir. I'm in the boat that Chicago has the second largest US downtown. I would even put San Francisco ahead of Philly, and put Philly at #4.
However, rowhome neighborhoods between Center City and University City? What? There are none. The only one block I can think of is the 2100 block of Walnut. I wouldn't call one block a hindrance between the seamless transition of Center City and University City however.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,281,063 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly
Even without University City, Philly's downtown is still more populated than downtown Chicago. I have already proven this. So ultimately it's a losing argument to say that downtown Chicago is more populated than downtown Philly. Everyone that tried to prove me on this subject has failed.
I gave points to validate Chicago's QUICK CATCH-UP in 30 years to Philly's DOWNTOWN RESIDENCE NUMBERS? Which still has added many to its numbers. The %s increases.... proved it. I pointed out how ...IF CHICAGO MERELY ADDED? THE GOLD COAST, SHOWED IN MY LAST PICTURE, AND PREVIOUS ONES? Its numbers would increase considerably too. IT SURE LOOKS LIKE IT SHOULD?
On the other hand... Philly has MANY BLOCKS OF MERELY ROW HOME AND COLONIAL HISTORIC AREAS? AS PART OF ITS DOWNTOWN. THEY REALLY DO NOT LOOK LIKE PART OF A DOWNTOWN. NYC HAS NEIGHBORHOODS BETWEEN MID-TOWN AND the ORIGINAL DOWNTOWN..... LOWER MANHTTAN? Because, the Concept of a Downtown today is a seamless area.
Philly had the area between the Rivers as Center-City Downtown, for nearly 200 years? The Row home areas were not merely included because University City became warranted to part of downtown now?
It is what it is... from statistics on growth, and %s? To Pictures and History of the Different cities in MANY MANY WAYS. One is More European in original design of housing? One is truly American in design and housing?
It's less denying the claim of your numbers? Then to put things in perspective... BECAUSE OF SOME.... EARLY IN THE THREAD? COMMENTED IN POSTS IT WAS ....ALL... A SIGN, AND BECAUSE OF CHICAGO'S DECLINE IN PROMINANCE TO IMPORTANCE?? RATHER THEN PHILLY'S REVIVAL AND GENTRIFICATION ALONE. I found it warranted.....to go into DEFENSIVE MODE AND OTHERS??? CHICAGO DID NOT DECLINE.
I never denied your numbers. But did show how they can be skewed and differences in %s of growth to how Chicago, easily could increase its numbers, and NO ONE COULD DENY THE AREA IT ADDS.... AS NOT LOOKING LIKE IT BELONGS?
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,281,063 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut
1st, you're preaching to the choir. I'm in the boat that Chicago has the second largest US downtown. I would even put San Francisco ahead of Philly, and put Philly at #4.
However, rowhome neighborhoods between Center City and University City? What? There are none. The only one block I can think of is the 2100 block of Walnut. I wouldn't call one block a hindrance between the seamless transition of Center City and University City however.
Correction.... I said Between CITY HALL AND UNIVERSITY CITY... The many blocks of row home neighborhoods.
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