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Old 04-24-2015, 08:14 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
45,751 posts, read 39,675,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Not really. Midtown Manhattan has very little residential construction, and almost no conversions. Core Midtown probably hasn't grown much in a century (I would guess population decline). The only new residential you see going up in the commercial core are super-luxury $10 million-$100 million condos for global bazillionaires (432 Park and the like).
Unless you have a very constrained definition in Midtown, that's not true. Parts have seen large residential growth. The census tract north of Times Square has seen fast growth: 46th to 50th street between 6th and 8th avenues grew by 50% between 2000 to 2010. Rest of Midtown is a mixed picture, but the most office only has haven't seen much residential growth:

Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com

I think it's a safe bet that more live in Midtown than 50 years ago.

Quote:
And the richest, most desirable neighborhoods in Manhattan aren't growing either. The growth in Manhattan is almost entirely in the least expensive parts of Manhattan. The population growth and residential development is almost all in Hudson Yards, Hells Kitchen, Harlem, and the like.
That's not quite the pattern. Tribeca has seen fast growth and its among the most expensive parts of Manhattan, the difference is there were places for residential conversion. See the map. You should post sources to back up your statements...
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,623 posts, read 24,826,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtypirate View Post
I am still pretty certain that Walkscore gives the entire "greater center city" area a 90 or above score.
Walkscore gives Downtown Los Angeles a 93. That means DTLA is more walkable than Downtown Philadelphia. L.A. wins!
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:21 AM
 
9,701 posts, read 6,683,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Unless you have a very constrained definition in Midtown, that's not true. Parts have seen large residential growth. The census tract north of Times Square has seen fast growth: 46th to 50th street between 6th and 8th avenues grew by 50% between 2000 to 2010. Rest of Midtown is a mixed picture, but the most office only has haven't seen much residential growth:
But these are tiny numbers, and outdated by this point. In 2000 one could still build regular luxury buildings in the Midtown core. Not anymore, really. I would wager that more people lived in Midtown prior to its emergence as the dominant core in the postwar era. The postwar 6th Avenue and 3rd Avenue towers replaced residential tenements in the shadow of the old 6th Ave/3rd Ave. elevated lines. The Park Ave. towers replaced older prewar residential buildings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
That's not quite the pattern. Tribeca has seen fast growth and its among the most expensive parts of Manhattan, the difference is there were places for residential conversion. See the map. You should post sources to back up your statements...
Tribeca had lots of land available from the urban renewal era, especially due north of the WTC. That land is now developed. Like with SoHo and Greenwich Village, its population growth will soon stop, because the land is all built on now, and any conversions will be for massive superluxury lofts. Landmarking, NIMBYs and land costs will keep non superluxury housing at bay.
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Old 04-24-2015, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,702 posts, read 11,355,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Exactly. This thread is silly.

I am a big Philly fan, but if the premise were true, it would be a bad thing, moreso than a good thing. A healthy downtown is expanding more with commercial growth, not residential growth. Strong residential growth means that housing is a more valuable function than office or hotel space, which is an unhealthy sign for a central business district.

In order to understand the relative health of a city, downtown is the last place to look. You need to look at the neighborhoods.
You're thinking from an American point of view. Cities like NYC, Philly, San Francisco, Chicago, Boston, etc. with the top rated downtowns in the country have healthy commercial, hotel, retail and residential markets. All cities in the US are exploding in residential growth downtown. Look at cities like LA and Seattle and Houston and DC who are building a ton of housing downtown to try to emulate the model that these other cities have.

I think most realistic Philadelphians would tell you that Philly could absolutely have a stronger economy and commercial development. I think most of the slow growth in this area has to do with archaic business and wage taxes. However, Philly is certainly building a lot of non residential now as well including the tallest building in the US outside of NYC and Chicago.

Comcast Innovation and Technology Center - 59 floors - 1,121 feet - office space and Four Seasons hotel
http://corporate.comcast.com/images/...-blog-hero.jpg

FMC Tower at Cira Centre South - 49 floors - 730 feet - office space and AKA extended stay hotel
https://philadelphiaheights.files.wo...06/fmc_011.jpg

SLS International - 47 floors - 590 feet - half hotel, half condos
http://media.philly.com/images/20131217_dran_768.jpg

W & Element by Westin - 52 floors - 582 feet - two hotels
http://planphilly.com/uploads/media_...752.1327.s.jpg

700 Schuylkill - 23 floors - 375 feet - office/research space - will eventually be a four building complex
http://planphilly.com/uploads/media_....752.472.s.png

Penn Center for Advanced Cellular Therapeutics - 19 floors - 302 feet - office/research/medical
http://www.facilities.upenn.edu/site...?itok=A3VE7SfX

Buerger Center for Advanced Pediatric Care - 14 floors - 292 feet
http://www.multivu.com/assets/62177/...r-original.jpg

2400 Market - 20 floors - office/hotel and residential space
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...a6cd1020f763e1

Penn Medicine at Washington Square - 18 floors - 260 feet - office
http://www.pennmedicine.org/washingt...-1391-full.jpg

3737 Market - 13 floors - 221 feet - office
http://media.bizj.us/view/img/370151...0-960-40-0.jpg

Hudson Hotel - 13 floors - hotel
http://media.philly.com/images/rende...forstor600.jpg

401 Race - 13 floors - hotel
http://www.phillyliving.com/images/b...11/401race.jpg

The Study at University City - 10 floors - hotel
http://photos.visitphilly.com/the-st...ring-800VP.jpg

That doesn't include some big commercial developments in the making like 1901 Arch, 618 Market, Cira II, Wexford Science and Technology University City site, 3400 Market, 3800 Market, Drexel Innovation Neighborhood, Penn's new Norma Foster designed tower and 3600 Civic Center Blvd.
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Old 04-24-2015, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,702 posts, read 11,355,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Walkscore gives Downtown Los Angeles a 93. That means DTLA is more walkable than Downtown Philadelphia. L.A. wins!
I agree that the boundaries put forth by the CCRA claiming that Center City is the second largest downtown is pretty bogus. Development wise, I would consider Manhattan, Chicago and San Francisco to be larger than Center City. I created a few maps a while back detailing what could be considered the "Downtown Area" for a lot of the larger US cities.

Manhattan
15.6 square miles
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...U.kA-WXt_zwrpY

Downtown Washington DC
4.68 square miles
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...U.kmCNtZsfUYqQ

Downtown Chicago
4.43 square miles
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...U.kf-9R6r_mzKo

Downtown Philadelphia
4.18 square miles
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...U.kygLBzfP-a0s

Downtown San Francisco
3.95 square miles
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...U.k8dtkyMe-bis
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Old 04-24-2015, 10:58 AM
 
9,588 posts, read 10,927,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut View Post
I agree that the boundaries put forth by the CCRA claiming that Center City is the second largest downtown is pretty bogus. Development wise, I would consider Manhattan, Chicago and San Francisco to be larger than Center City. I created a few maps a while back detailing what could be considered the "Downtown Area" for a lot of the larger US cities.

Manhattan
15.6 square miles
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...U.kA-WXt_zwrpY

Downtown Washington DC
4.68 square miles
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...U.kmCNtZsfUYqQ

Downtown Chicago
4.43 square miles
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...U.kf-9R6r_mzKo

Downtown Philadelphia
4.18 square miles
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...U.kygLBzfP-a0s

Downtown San Francisco
3.95 square miles
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...U.k8dtkyMe-bis
Why did you include U City for Philly, but didn't include Capital Riverfront, Union Market, and the Wharf/Waterfront Station for D.C.? The Wharf/Waterfront Station and Capital Riverfront touches the Federal Center which you included and Union Market touches NOMA which you included. Also, for NOMA, you cut off half the neighborhood.
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Old 04-24-2015, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,623 posts, read 24,826,243 times
Reputation: 11185
I also don't get why he didn't include Downtown Brooklyn/Ft. Greene, Williamsburg and Long Island City. Those areas should be considered "Downtown" NYC too.
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Old 04-24-2015, 11:04 AM
 
9,701 posts, read 6,683,467 times
Reputation: 9776
By the definition we're now using of Center City Philly, you could include like most of Brooklyn for NYC.
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Old 04-24-2015, 11:05 AM
 
9,588 posts, read 10,927,466 times
Reputation: 2119
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut View Post
I agree that the boundaries put forth by the CCRA claiming that Center City is the second largest downtown is pretty bogus. Development wise, I would consider Manhattan, Chicago and San Francisco to be larger than Center City. I created a few maps a while back detailing what could be considered the "Downtown Area" for a lot of the larger US cities.

Manhattan
15.6 square miles
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...U.kA-WXt_zwrpY

Downtown Washington DC
4.68 square miles
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...U.kmCNtZsfUYqQ

Downtown Chicago
4.43 square miles
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...U.kf-9R6r_mzKo

Downtown Philadelphia
4.18 square miles
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...U.kygLBzfP-a0s

Downtown San Francisco
3.95 square miles
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...U.k8dtkyMe-bis
Here is what you cut out of NOMA in D.C. for your map to the west:

http://www.elevationdcapts.com/
Union Place Readies for PUD Modification, Extension with Updated Designs - District Source
Station House
205-Unit Development Proposed for Self-Storage Warehouse in DC
Wilkes Company Plans 401-Unit Mixed-Use Development in NoMa
Massive Project in the Works for Central Armature Site in NoMa

Just to name a few.......
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Old 04-24-2015, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,702 posts, read 11,355,585 times
Reputation: 3539
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
Why did you include U City for Philly, but didn't include Capital Riverfront, Union Market, and the Wharf/Waterfront Station for D.C.? The Wharf/Waterfront Station and Capital Riverfront touches the Federal Center which you included and Union Market touches NOMA which you included. Also, for NOMA, you cut off half the neighborhood.
Can't include all of the city man, lol. What would Downtown DC look like to you? It's just a rough mock-up which I made. It doesn't mean this is the 100% definitive definition of Downtown DC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I also don't get why he didn't include Downtown Brooklyn/Ft. Greene, Williamsburg and Long Island City. Those areas should be considered "Downtown" NYC too.
Is this a joke? Probably because they're separated by the massive East River. I would consider these separate "Downtown Nodes," but they are definitely not a part of the cohesive Downtown of NYC.
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