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View Poll Results: Which city is more fun and better to live in? Chicago, Illinois or New York City, New York?
Chicago, Illinois 35 37.63%
New York City, New York 58 62.37%
Voters: 93. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 04-24-2015, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,691 posts, read 86,882,510 times
Reputation: 29355

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
It's 36k a year, not 50k.
The guy said "everybody with a normal job" can afford $3-4K month rent. That's up to 48K/yr. No, someone with a "normal job" doesn't make enough to pay $3-4K/mo in rent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
36k would be completely affordable for a normal job in Manhattan.
A "normal job in Manhattan" isn't a "normal job" anywhere else in America except a very few other select, highly specialized employment nodes. Those jobs are only available to a very thin slice of the workforce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
A normal job in Manhattan pays over 100k, and if a young person with no obligations chooses to live in Manhattan and live in a fancy apartment, then it seems totally doable to me.

But most people don't do that. Most workers don't live in Manhattan, and, of those that do, and who aren't rich, they have roommates. Manhattan actually has a lower proportion of income paid to rent than many counties in the U.S. I think it has a lower income-to-rent ratio than most places.
So in summary, you can afford to live in Manhattan -- if you're rich and have no other obligations or if you take on roommates. Now there's something nobody would have guessed until now.
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Old 04-24-2015, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Miami Beach, FL/Tokyo, Japan
1,699 posts, read 1,482,534 times
Reputation: 699
When I said "normal" job I made sure to exclude blue collar jobs, school teachers, etc. I don't consider those "normal" but whatever, I see my comment is rejected so I amend it, "Upper Middle Class" I think most people can be happy with that.
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Old 04-24-2015, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,691 posts, read 86,882,510 times
Reputation: 29355
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDPMiami View Post
When I said "normal" job I made sure to exclude blue collar jobs, school teachers, etc. I don't consider those "normal" but whatever, I see my comment is rejected so I amend it, "Upper Middle Class" I think most people can be happy with that.
So basically, normal jobs that normal people do every day by the scores of millions and that the rest of us depend on for our basic quality of life aren't "normal." Gotcha.

Nice attitude.

Like a high school friend of mine who's a building contractor says... "if it weren't for blue-collar workers, where would white collar workers work?"
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Old 04-24-2015, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Miami Beach, FL/Tokyo, Japan
1,699 posts, read 1,482,534 times
Reputation: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by UAE50 View Post
City-proper wise, Miami has the % highest renters. Metro wise, Los Angeles has the highest.
I wonder why. Maybe all the immigrants we get.

I'm in the hobby of buying condos and flipping them in terms of short term investments. The area of interest in Miami is near the old arena, near OT, which used to be the most dangerous area of Miami and is still a big, dangerous ghetto. Condos there go for about 200k for less than 1000 sqft and 2 bedrooms. And you still live in a ghetto. But with all the billions of dollars in the pipeline this neighborhood will gentrify, and will equalize with the neighborhoods on the bay, where these same condos go for half a million - 700k.



You won't find these exact prices on Zillow, you need a 2k USD subscription for this program. Anyways, that's why Miami properties are depressed, we have so many ghettos we're getting rid of slowly. NYC already did that more or less.

Anyways, I need to go. My gf/fiancee happens to live on Jupiter (not Jupiter Island, however her parents do). Good night.
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:05 PM
 
9,701 posts, read 6,686,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
The guy said "everybody with a normal job" can afford $3-4K month rent. That's up to 48K/yr. No, someone with a "normal job" doesn't make enough to pay $3-4K/mo in rent.
We are talking Manhattan. In Manhattan, yes, that is "normal" (and that is putting aside the obvious point that many people don't have incomes that match up with their housing costs; they get assistance from parents, have inheritances, etc.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
A "normal job in Manhattan" isn't a "normal job" anywhere else in America except a very few other select, highly specialized employment nodes. Those jobs are only available to a very thin slice of the workforce.
Again, Manhattan. Yes, that is "normal" in Manhattan context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
So in summary, you can afford to live in Manhattan -- if you're rich and have no other obligations or if you take on roommates. Now there's something nobody would have guessed until now.
No, you just classify middle class people as "rich". You are claiming that people making 62k a year are "rich", which is laughable. Middle class people can very easily live in Manhattan, and in fact they do. In fact many poor live in Manhattan, but they are all very highly subsidized and pay basically nothing in housing costs.
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,691 posts, read 86,882,510 times
Reputation: 29355
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
We are talking Manhattan. In Manhattan, yes, that is "normal" (and that is putting aside the obvious point that many people don't have incomes that match up with their housing costs; they get assistance from parents, have inheritances, etc.).
Right. And Manhattan is far from "normal."


Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Again, Manhattan. Yes, that is "normal" in Manhattan context.
So in the context of a wealthy bubble, it's normal. It's still a wealthy bubble. I'm sure someone living in Monaco who only has 7 figures in his bank account doesn't feel rich "in that context." To the rest of the world, he's still rich.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
No, you just classify middle class people as "rich". You are claiming that people making 62k a year are "rich", which is laughable.
I defy you to quote where I have ever said that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Middle class people can very easily live in Manhattan, and in fact they do. In fact many poor live in Manhattan, but they are all very highly subsidized and pay basically nothing in housing costs.
OK, so the rich with no obligations, the non-rich who take on roommates, and those who have access to other people's resources (subsidized housing, rent control, trust fund kids, etc.) can afford to live there. Your reply gives me a whole new perspective on what constitutes "normal."

If nothing else it's putting truth to the old trope that New Yorkers think the world ends at the Hudson.
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Dallas
282 posts, read 257,447 times
Reputation: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDPMiami View Post
When I said "normal" job I made sure to exclude blue collar jobs, school teachers, etc. I don't consider those "normal" but whatever, I see my comment is rejected so I amend it, "Upper Middle Class" I think most people can be happy with that.
Most white collar professionals still couldn't qualify for a $4,000 per month apartment. I know people in Miami are more reckless with their money, but in New York they have the 40x rule in which you can't qualify for an apartment unless it falls within 40x of your gross income.

Quote:
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, only 6.03 percent of individuals had incomes of $100,000 or more in 2010.
I'm going to guess that less than 3% of American workers earn over $160,000. You have to have a top 3% job or have dual white collar workers in the household to afford an $4k apartment.

Last edited by UAE50; 04-24-2015 at 05:04 PM..
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Old 04-25-2015, 09:30 AM
 
9,701 posts, read 6,686,232 times
Reputation: 9781
Quote:
Originally Posted by UAE50 View Post
I'm going to guess that less than 3% of American workers earn over $160,000. You have to have a top 3% job or have dual white collar workers in the household to afford an $4k apartment.
Not necessarily. You're assuming that people are paying rents through their own household income. Sometimes that's true, sometimes it isn't.

I would say roughly half the people I knew paying high rent in their 20's were not paying out of their income. Plenty of parents help, some people have trust funds, some have inheritances, some have investments/savings. I knew a dancer making almost nothing who was renting a 5k loft in Brooklyn.

I could be making 30k yet very easily afford a 3k apartment if I have 300k invested in the markets. This type of scenario is quite common. The baby boomers are getting old, and their offspring are inheriting their wealth.
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Old 04-25-2015, 10:17 AM
 
2,601 posts, read 3,904,064 times
Reputation: 2275
Good Lord, if affordability is a concern, then New York is not the place to live. Maybe after some money is made, but if it's an issue, not to start out with.
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Old 04-25-2015, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Chicago
589 posts, read 584,261 times
Reputation: 445
This just seems like an excuse for another Chicago vs NYC thread
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