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View Poll Results: What is the Midwest's second city/metropolis?
Greater Detroit 65 41.67%
Greater Minneapolis/Saint Paul 91 58.33%
Voters: 156. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-21-2015, 06:20 PM
 
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The Twin Cities metro, while not as large as the metro area of Detroit, is the 2nd best/most important city in the Midwest at this point. Detroit has simply become too dangerous this past decade, and too much of the city is run down to be considered "above" the Twin Cities.

I'm from Toronto and have visited Detroit several times since the recession (I'm a Lions fan). It's just gotten so bad there, albeit better than it was 4-5 years ago. I know this may not be PC, but it's a sad reality. As a young white man, I truly felt like almost half of the city proper of Detroit was "off limits" for me after dark. The looks and vibe I got from many of the African American locals just made the city feel a lot smaller than it really was -- like it was cut off from the world. I never felt that way from any other city.

 
Old 05-21-2015, 08:38 PM
 
8,662 posts, read 6,336,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey joe-joe View Post
The Twin Cities metro, while not as large as the metro area of Detroit, is the 2nd best/most important city in the Midwest at this point. Detroit has simply become too dangerous this past decade, and too much of the city is run down to be considered "above" the Twin Cities.

I'm from Toronto and have visited Detroit several times since the recession (I'm a Lions fan). It's just gotten so bad there, albeit better than it was 4-5 years ago. I know this may not be PC, but it's a sad reality. As a young white man, I truly felt like almost half of the city proper of Detroit was "off limits" for me after dark. The looks and vibe I got from many of the African American locals just made the city feel a lot smaller than it really was -- like it was cut off from the world. I never felt that way from any other city.
Lol....you are late to the party. I have already stated that such was the sentiment of many whites....and you just cosigned it. Minneapolis is the second city from the white perspective (but not exclusively) because most whites see no value in the black population that is beneficial to them in anyway and since much of the Detroit area and is suburbs are hyper segregated.....whites do not feel they have urban access...and that is what whites desire these days....urbanity....but white urbanity. Detroit offers little of that....lol. For black people though, if you are going to be marketable in a professional sense, you HAVE to interact and find value in the white community, plus, you interact and find value in the black community as well. Thus, we partake in the WHOLE area....where as many whites have no need or desire for the black community....and many are scared to death of it anyway. So are far as they are concerned you can just minus the majority of the black population and the geographic area that they occupy....and when you add things up after that......Detroit takes a second place to Minneapolis, but only as the result of underestimating, undervaluing and marginalizing the black community.
 
Old 05-21-2015, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Detroit
3,626 posts, read 4,346,455 times
Reputation: 2513
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogead View Post
It is not the fault of those who live in Detroit that the city has fallen to the level it has. If you want to argue that the degree to which we as a nation have allowed one of our great cities to deteriorate represents a systemic racism, I'm in agreement. If you want to say that the disparaging attitudes and statements which are often directed at Detroit reflect that institutionalized racism, I'm with you.

If you want to argue that Detroit maintains the "#2 in The Midwest" position based upon a larger CSA or MSA population, fair enough. Likewise, if you feel that Detroit is #2 based upon the amount of trade with Canada, the city's historic role in manufacturing, CSA-level GDP, or even Detroit's history as a Black mecca; those are all reasonable criteria to consider.
This is one of the biggest problems I have. America literally just sat there and let one of it's largest cities go downhill for decades. I mean I understand the US is in just as much trouble it's damn self but wow. I'll give America credit for one thing, the auto bailout, other than that it has done absolutely nothing for Detroit. Up until recently and I do mean VERY recently, Detroit was basically in a state of emergency, literally out of control as far as basic city services that every American should have, extremely poor response times, many fire hydrants not working, many streetlights not working, ect. When is enough, enough? Now Detroit is starting to come back on it's own, when it does fully come back it's thanks to the people who invested and saw potential and almost no thanks to our great country.

Quote:
The Twin Cities metro, while not as large as the metro area of Detroit, is the 2nd best/most important city in the Midwest at this point. Detroit has simply become too dangerous this past decade, and too much of the city is run down to be considered "above" the Twin Cities.

I'm from Toronto and have visited Detroit several times since the recession (I'm a Lions fan). It's just gotten so bad there, albeit better than it was 4-5 years ago. I know this may not be PC, but it's a sad reality. As a young white man, I truly felt like almost half of the city proper of Detroit was "off limits" for me after dark. The looks and vibe I got from many of the African American locals just made the city feel a lot smaller than it really was -- like it was cut off from the world. I never felt that way from any other city.
Metro Detroit is far from dangerous or rundown. It's actually home to some of the safest and wealthiest communities. Also, can you explain how it seemed cut off from the rest of the world? that statement made me laugh a little but I would like a better understanding of this. Everyone I know lives there lives like most do in any other city.
 
Old 05-22-2015, 06:23 AM
 
8,662 posts, read 6,336,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
This is one of the biggest problems I have. America literally just sat there and let one of it's largest cities go downhill for decades. I mean I understand the US is in just as much trouble it's damn self but wow. I'll give America credit for one thing, the auto bailout, other than that it has done absolutely nothing for Detroit. Up until recently and I do mean VERY recently, Detroit was basically in a state of emergency, literally out of control as far as basic city services that every American should have, extremely poor response times, many fire hydrants not working, many streetlights not working, ect. When is enough, enough? Now Detroit is starting to come back on it's own, when it does fully come back it's thanks to the people who invested and saw potential and almost no thanks to our great country.


Metro Detroit is far from dangerous or rundown. It's actually home to some of the safest and wealthiest communities. Also, can you explain how it seemed cut off from the rest of the world? that statement made me laugh a little but I would like a better understanding of this. Everyone I know lives there lives like most do in any other city.
Here is the thing with me. There is nothing different about Detroit now.....than 30 or 40 years ago when all the companies and whites were divesting from the city. The reason then was said to be because of crime, poor schools, corruption, etc. Well, from my knowledge none of that has changed, but notwithstanding, Detroit is turning around because business are starting to reinvest in the billions and whites are returning to the city to live. If there return is the catalyst for the turn around, it was also the catalyst for its decline, because that is the demographic that gave rise to the city in the first place.

It's all a self fulfilling prophecy.
 
Old 05-22-2015, 02:24 PM
 
52,622 posts, read 75,426,573 times
Reputation: 11627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Lol....you are late to the party. I have already stated that such was the sentiment of many whites....and you just cosigned it. Minneapolis is the second city from the white perspective (but not exclusively) because most whites see no value in the black population that is beneficial to them in anyway and since much of the Detroit area and is suburbs are hyper segregated.....whites do not feel they have urban access...and that is what whites desire these days....urbanity....but white urbanity. Detroit offers little of that....lol. For black people though, if you are going to be marketable in a professional sense, you HAVE to interact and find value in the white community, plus, you interact and find value in the black community as well. Thus, we partake in the WHOLE area....where as many whites have no need or desire for the black community....and many are scared to death of it anyway. So are far as they are concerned you can just minus the majority of the black population and the geographic area that they occupy....and when you add things up after that......Detroit takes a second place to Minneapolis, but only as the result of underestimating, undervaluing and marginalizing the black community.
Isn't that what Royal Oak is for, when you look demographics? I don't know if it would be viewed as being urban enough though.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4872...RA!2e0!6m1!1e1
 
Old 05-22-2015, 05:28 PM
 
8,662 posts, read 6,336,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Isn't that what Royal Oak is for, when you look demographics? I don't know if it would be viewed as being urban enough though.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4872...RA!2e0!6m1!1e1
Yeah....but few know about Royal Oak if they are not from MI. I think they want it in the city proper though, like in other major cities
 
Old 05-22-2015, 05:41 PM
 
52,622 posts, read 75,426,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Yeah....but few know about Royal Oak if they are not from MI. I think they want it in the city proper though, like in other major cities
That's true and I should have thrown an lol in that post. I guess Downtown or around Wayne Stateay be the best bet in that regard.
 
Old 05-22-2015, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Detroit
3,626 posts, read 4,346,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
That's true and I should have thrown an lol in that post. I guess Downtown or around Wayne Stateay be the best bet in that regard.
Yeah people are just starting to catch the drift of the greater downtown Detroit area. It's funny when I was a kid it was mostly blacks around there outside of businesses hours. Now it's very diverse if not mostly whites on any given day, night, weekend, or weekday. I'm actually pretty happy about it. As I walk around the greater downtown area and see people of all races ice skating at Campus Martius or chilling on the little beach in the summer, or at the riverwalk bike riding, dog walking, reading books, eating, taking selfies, ect. Even young suburban teens asking me where any parties are lol I say "wow, the 8 mile race barrier is finally coming down". As people start to feel more and more comfortable with living, working, and playing with eachother I think Detroit can have many strong diverse city neighborhoods. Royal Oak, Birmingham, ect is getting it's ass kicked by greater downtown Detroit right now due to the fact that the number of people avoiding Detroit are shrinking dramatically as they are starting to realize there is no experience elsewhere in Michigan quite like it.
 
Old 05-23-2015, 04:35 AM
 
8,662 posts, read 6,336,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
Yeah people are just starting to catch the drift of the greater downtown Detroit area. It's funny when I was a kid it was mostly blacks around there outside of businesses hours. Now it's very diverse if not mostly whites on any given day, night, weekend, or weekday. I'm actually pretty happy about it. As I walk around the greater downtown area and see people of all races ice skating at Campus Martius or chilling on the little beach in the summer, or at the riverwalk bike riding, dog walking, reading books, eating, taking selfies, ect. Even young suburban teens asking me where any parties are lol I say "wow, the 8 mile race barrier is finally coming down". As people start to feel more and more comfortable with living, working, and playing with eachother I think Detroit can have many strong diverse city neighborhoods. Royal Oak, Birmingham, ect is getting it's ass kicked by greater downtown Detroit right now due to the fact that the number of people avoiding Detroit are shrinking dramatically as they are starting to realize there is no experience elsewhere in Michigan quite like it.
The phenomenon of Detroit's "comeback" is a double edge sword for me. On one hand, I am passionate about the comeback of Detroit and on the other hand, I have always been passionate about the plight of African Americans. Hence, the comeback of Detroit, as it is unfolding, is unmistakably the result of white investment and white interest returning to the city. It's sad to me that the optics imply that "blacks failed", because as things got "blacker" things got worse and now that there is a white mayor and whites returning to the city, Detroit is coming back. The subconscious and subliminal impact of these optics plays into long existing stereotypes and perceptions about black people, that have really become self fulfilling prophecies, which does not help our struggles and rise to economic equality.

It's sad, but if Michigan is going to be competitive, it has to become more attractive to businesses and companies and hence Michigan cities has to offer the type of environments needed to attract and keep young talented workers in the knowledge based economy. The model that millennials are looking for is urban white vibrancy, not just in terms of entertainment districts, but in terms of neighborhoods as well. Such area are generally less than 20% black, as anything more than that becomes a deal breaker,unless there is a downward trend (other races are more tolerated). That is what Detroit needs to create to be competitive and grow once again and in turn that will allow local companies to compete for talent across the country, by offering prospects what I call "white urbanity"....like the north side of Chicago, for example. An area of Detroit primed for that, I think already, is the city of hamtramck. The question is, though, what does that mean for African Americans? If Detroits comeback looks to white and too successful in terms of nice white areas then leaving downtown an Midtown and riding into black poverty and misery....that could be combustible, especially in this age police shootings, riots and the like.

The thing is this, and this is unfortunate too. Things that are going on today has little to do with racism today, in terms of the unevenness of the "comeback" in regards to race, but rather, the legacy of racism from the past that has never been reconciled. I think people want to just get along and live and let live today....but we have all these accrued racial inequalities that is the legacy of a different kind of past. Bottom line, the way things are happening in Detroit is the best way for Detroit to comeback. You have to start in the core and work outward from there, and you have to bring in whites as investors, leaders, and new residents. If not, Detroit will never comeback.

Detroit also needs to create wealthy districts or areas like the Gold Coast or Magnificent Mile.....and some high rise apartment living along the riverfront.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; 05-23-2015 at 04:55 AM..
 
Old 05-23-2015, 06:55 AM
 
52,622 posts, read 75,426,573 times
Reputation: 11627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
The phenomenon of Detroit's "comeback" is a double edge sword for me. On one hand, I am passionate about the comeback of Detroit and on the other hand, I have always been passionate about the plight of African Americans. Hence, the comeback of Detroit, as it is unfolding, is unmistakably the result of white investment and white interest returning to the city. It's sad to me that the optics imply that "blacks failed", because as things got "blacker" things got worse and now that there is a white mayor and whites returning to the city, Detroit is coming back. The subconscious and subliminal impact of these optics plays into long existing stereotypes and perceptions about black people, that have really become self fulfilling prophecies, which does not help our struggles and rise to economic equality.

It's sad, but if Michigan is going to be competitive, it has to become more attractive to businesses and companies and hence Michigan cities has to offer the type of environments needed to attract and keep young talented workers in the knowledge based economy. The model that millennials are looking for is urban white vibrancy, not just in terms of entertainment districts, but in terms of neighborhoods as well. Such area are generally less than 20% black, as anything more than that becomes a deal breaker,unless there is a downward trend (other races are more tolerated). That is what Detroit needs to create to be competitive and grow once again and in turn that will allow local companies to compete for talent across the country, by offering prospects what I call "white urbanity"....like the north side of Chicago, for example. An area of Detroit primed for that, I think already, is the city of hamtramck. The question is, though, what does that mean for African Americans? If Detroits comeback looks to white and too successful in terms of nice white areas then leaving downtown an Midtown and riding into black poverty and misery....that could be combustible, especially in this age police shootings, riots and the like.

The thing is this, and this is unfortunate too. Things that are going on today has little to do with racism today, in terms of the unevenness of the "comeback" in regards to race, but rather, the legacy of racism from the past that has never been reconciled. I think people want to just get along and live and let live today....but we have all these accrued racial inequalities that is the legacy of a different kind of past. Bottom line, the way things are happening in Detroit is the best way for Detroit to comeback. You have to start in the core and work outward from there, and you have to bring in whites as investors, leaders, and new residents. If not, Detroit will never comeback.

Detroit also needs to create wealthy districts or areas like the Gold Coast or Magnificent Mile.....and some high rise apartment living along the riverfront.

I wonder if the Arab presence in Hamtramck would be an issue in regards to being that area of "White urbanity"?

Also, couldn't the area east of Downtown along the River fit or increase as the location for high rises and affluence?

On the other hand, I wonder if it is possible for Woodward Ave in northern Detroit get more investment from Black folks, given that there is a concentration of middle/upper middle class Black residents in and near that area?
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