Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Comparing Detroit metro vs. Minneapolis/St. Paul metro is a lot like comparing Burger King vs. Wendy's. It's hard to make a real evaluation for supremacy.
Comparing Detroit metro vs. Minneapolis/St. Paul metro is a lot like comparing Burger King vs. Wendy's. It's hard to make a real evaluation for supremacy.
I disagree with both of these. I think you can compare Detroit and the Twin Cities. They are both Midwestern cities. One has clearly been managed better than the other on a number of factors. I also think you can side by side compare Burger King and Wendy's Slightly different products, same industry. One has clearly been managed better than the other on a number of factors.
I disagree with both of these. I think you can compare Detroit and the Twin Cities. They are both Midwestern cities. One has clearly been managed better than the other on a number of factors. I also think you can side by side compare Burger King and Wendy's Slightly different products, same industry. One has clearly been managed better than the other on a number of factors.
Greater Detroit versus Greater Minneapolis/Saint Paul, which one is soundly the Midwest's second place in the hierarchy?
Factor into it every facet about a city/metropolis. We'll dissect this down to its bare bones as a topic if we need to.
- Importance: things like Gross Domestic Product, Fortune 500/1000, Market Capitalization, Total Personal Income, the correlative per capita measurements, major industries, shipping and/or trade or commerce, market value (abundance in market specific amenities (I.E.; Apple Store, Tesla Showrooms, professional sports teams, luxury hotel brands).
- The ability of the city to have "good to great neighborhoods" and the metropolis to have "good to great suburbs." Their own pertinent styles in architecture, urban form, plant life, urban parks, mass transit, taxi fleets, accessibility to the most relevant points in the region. Now...economically the Detroit area has been taking a hit for the last 30 years....which has led to the fragmenting of the SE Michigan region into separate areas that are counted separate from Detroit....but which would be part of any similar sized city that had a stronger core that pulled in commuters from further out counties.
- Institutions of education: First primary education, on a metropolitan area wide scale of K-12. Then higher educational facilities such as colleges and universities, specific graduate level schools, so on.
- Institutions of culture: Public library systems, museums, art galleries, amphitheaters, concert halls and/or venues, specified green-space for large scale events, cultural centers, historic sites and/or properties.
- The dichotomy of food and/or culinary offerings. A strong sense of regional cuisine, something largely either popular or invented in the region that is not so easily found elsewhere in the country. Has to be local culture (I.E.; Detroit's hot-dogs, pizzas, sandwiches -- its own style). Then a plethora of food choices from around the world. Then a range of offerings ranging from outdoor food establishments (carts or trucks or vendors) to the multitude of price ranging restaurants "cheap eats" to "fine dining." Then also some examples of culinary fusion, if that is available in these regions.
An addition could be beverage things and/or shisha/hookah bars. For beverage related things think of something that may come from the area, whether it is beer, wine, whiskey or whatever else.
- Network: A city's user friendliness, in my personal opinion, is well connected to how easily people from any and/or all backgrounds can establish a foothold in a place on their stay there. Things like neighborhood integration, neighborhood cohesion, labeled and marked districts, helpful street signs, consulates, visitors centers, helpful residents and/or abundance of travel agencies, customer service, so on.
- Airline coverage/airport accessibility: Another dichotomy where first look at the places you can go to at the regional level, then the national level, then the continental level, then finally the global level. Which airlines have prominent hubs, which airlines have a presence, and number of commercial airports available in the region.
- Job market/industries: This is a two-part question. First is the job market. The relative health of the job market, the availability of positions, the industries that are expanding the most, wage appreciation, so on. Then industry, which industries have crucial presence in the area, which ones impact the area most, which ones have beneficial worldwide influence. Also which city is the bigger business hub? With conventions, more properties with conference rooms, business travelers, so on.
- The abundance of things to do within the areas' vicinity. Natural or recreational offerings. Lakes, rivers, forests, waterfalls, so on. State parks. National parks. Area parks. Fun places to go out and explore.
- Location: relative to other places in the country. So how accessible is the place. Can it become a hub of its region with this location? Which other cities would fall "under influence" for these two cities?
- Cosmopolitanism: there was a thread asking about which is more cosmopolitan between Nashville and San Antonio. Honestly had to crack up at that, LOL. Neither. However these two cities are actually quite large and draw an immigrant pool from various places around the world. Detroit is huge in the Arab world here in the United States and from my understanding Minneapolis is THE primary destination point for the Hmong and Somali people. Which place is more cosmopolitan (or diverse or international)?
- Regulations: State tax structure, state business tax structure, security, policing, patrolling (neighborhood committees), so on.
- Retail: Availability of any and all possible brands for clothing, electronics, shoes, food, furniture, and/or all other categories for shoppers.
- Infrastructure: Mass transit by rail, mass transit by bus, bike lanes and/or trails, walkability factors, convenience for automobile users in regards to roads, parking, so on.
- Availability in entertainment: nightlife bars, nightlife clubs, nightlife lounges, happy hour bars, rave halls, music venues, live performances, street performances, so on.
- Culture: Local character and personality such as accents, customs, beliefs, religious institutions that prevail most prominently in the area, political beliefs, cultural influences from outside the area and inside the area. Culture and what it is geared towards (intelligence, work ethic, hard work, so on).
Anything else, just tack it on and include it in the thread. Compare them at everything, we're looking to see which one is the Midwest's all around second metropolis/city after Chicago.
Its not even a close comparison. The greater Detroit area is an international area. There is over 10 million people within a 100 mile radius of Detroit....compared to less than half that many in the same footprint centered in the twin cities.
Minneapolis is really not in the same league as Detroit....when you are talking "The greater area".
Its not even a close comparison. The greater Detroit area is an international area. There is over 10 million people within a 100 mile radius of Detroit....compared to less than half that many in the same footprint centered in the twin cities.
Minneapolis is really not in the same league as Detroit....when you are talking "The greater area".
??? But like 3 million of those people live in Cleveland, Toledo, and Ontario? People who live in Cleveland are not part of Greater Detroit.
Try a 40-mile radius. Detroit has about 5 million people, or about 4.5 million without Ann Arbor and Windsor; Minneapolis has about 3 million.
Population wise the city is about the same as Minneapolis and St Paul combined and its CSA has a million more people. plus its just a more popular city in general, many great faces, companies, innovations, etc come from the area.
Its not even a close comparison. The greater Detroit area is an international area. There is over 10 million people within a 100 mile radius of Detroit....compared to less than half that many in the same footprint centered in the twin cities.
Minneapolis is really not in the same league as Detroit....when you are talking "The greater area".
Yeah I agree with this. That's like saying Philly is in a different league from Houston because there's 20 million people (or however many) within 100 miles but only 8 million within 100 miles of Houston (again, just estimating).
I don't think you can say either is "soundly" the second place Midwestern city. But I still think MSP is the new second city, even if it's not as large as Detroit's metro or nationally important as Detroit once was. Outside of Detroit/the general region, most people think of Detroit as a has-been, dying, bankrupt city. Outside of MSP/the general region, people view it as (1) another Denver, Seattle, etc. - an economically thriving place, or (2) frozen wasteland/Fargo. I struggle to see how Detroit can currently hold title to the Midwest's second city given its decaying state.
This isn't meant to hate on Detroit. I want to see all these stupid auto-manufacturing plants built in rural southern counties move into Detroit city limits to re-establish the city as the manufacturing capitol of the US.
You last few poster do not know what you are talking about. I just threw the 100 mile radius out there because it reflects that Detroit sits at the center of a Great Lakes Megalopolis. The CSA of Detroit, excluding Windsor Ontario, which is closer to Detroit proper than most of Detroit's suburbs, contains 5.3 million people. The footprint of that 5.3 million people is contained within 5,800 square miles. Remember that. Now, Minneapolis MSA (not the CSA) has only 3.5 million people...BUT in 8,100 square miles. The CSA of Minneapolis is only 3.7 million people. If if add in the population of Windsor, Ontario and its suburbs, the Detroit area is up to ~ 5.7 million people....which is 2 million more people in a land area that will still be SMALLER than the footprint of the MSA of Minneapolis MSA. In other words, the footprint of Detroit CSA, even including Windsor, Ontario, is still smaller than the footprint of the MSA of Minneapolis. Why? I will explain later. It all has to do with commuter rates.
Again....Minneapolis is NOT in the same league/tier with Detroit area in terms of population. It's just not. Due to its hard economic times.....it may be in the same league in regards to GDP output of the areas....but definitely not in terms of population. What people need to understand, more than anything else, is that these footprints or square miles used to count the areas population, is based on commuting rates. Detroit does not rank high because it's core was gutted (divested from) and the economy has been poor to such a degree that it had an impact on where people commute and at what percentage (rates). Plus, add to that a terrible regional transportation system and you have the perfect storm to create anemic commuter rates between the far out areas and Detroit's core counties. Anemic commuter interchange rates reduces the footprint of MSA and CSA areas.... and hence reduces the population.
If Detroit was booming economically and the core offered the vast majority of employment opportunities, entertainment and culture, like in many other MSA's.....Detroit's MSA would be over 5 million people just from the change in where people commuted to. Detroit is a special case because of its poor economy and racial segregation resulting in the core losing the magnetism to attract commuters from afar. Detroit is really in the league of Atlanta, Houston, Miami and such.....because it has just as many people or close to as many people in the same size footprint used to define those areas. Those areas are heavy commuter areas with good economies, roads and weather that allows people to live 50 miles away to commute to the core counties and hence get counted as part of their MSA.
This is a pet peeve of mine. People have to keep in mind that these population counts are formula based and are really not designed for use by the average person. In other words, when I am in an area, what it has to offer me, I do not judge by commuter rates or borders. For me, and It's different for everyone, a 50 minute drive or less is my daily stomping ground. Whatever places are within a 50 minute drive, one way, I consider to be in my daily reach of access. What does it matter if the area is not "officially" part of your MSA? Coming from Detroit's West side I can be in Ann Arbor in less than 40....so Ann Arbor is in my stomping ground. Hell....I can actually get to Toledo, Ohio in 50 minutes, as well as Flint, Windsor Ontario and the like. I am talking to you as an ex Detroiter who has made these trips. I lived in Minneapolis too. It's no comparison.
You people are making comparison ON PAPER.....but in reality....there is no comparison. It's like two teams that match up against each other good on paper......but when they play one team gets blown out. Minneapolis gets blown out in terms of population.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 05-14-2015 at 07:04 AM..
Minneapolis, Des Moines, Iowa City, Omaha-Lincoln, Kansas City, Sioux Falls, Rapid City, Grand Island, Fargo, Columbia (MO), Springfield (MO).
What is this random hodge podge of cities?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Slightly different products, same industry. One has clearly been managed better than the other on a number of factors.