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View Poll Results: Your favorite of the three?
Atlanta 46 38.33%
Miami 31 25.83%
Mexico City 43 35.83%
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-01-2015, 11:19 AM
 
Location: In the heights
20,197 posts, read 21,793,720 times
Reputation: 10258

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Here are the silly Atlanta arguments:

Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
You backed yourself into a corner.I did not simply post a picture of a temple.You ignore that I gave locations of communities and even pointed out that some of those communities have over 20% Asian.Something you have yet show any community with signficant numbers instead playing real innocent like you cant recognize that within the metro there are communities with high populations of Asians even though you insist on only looking at the entire metro because you know you have no leg to stand on.

Its so ridiculous that your pride won't allow you to admit you are wrong.

What are you talking about?I already said yes I have.I have been to Toronto,Montreal,San Francisco,NYC,etc.

I tell you want Give me at least 2 communities within the metro Miami-Dade area with at least 10% Asian and I will shut up about it.Some of these following cities have more Asians than Miami has African Americans but apparently the African American population in Miami is visible and nobody is denying that.
Duluth-22.3%Asian
Suwanee-18.3%Asian
Johns Creek-23.4%
Doraville-17.7%
Milton-10.4%

Here is this for you:
Homestead-1.2%Asian(I guess the Thai all live near the random buddhist temple)
Homestead (city) QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau
Again, obviously missing the forest for the trees. Obviously not understanding or willfully ignoring scale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
Oh, it most certainly does. Which was the point I was making: Take away the special case of what happened with Cubans and Haitians, and Miami has a foreign born population in line with other cities of similar size.

Again, I don't want to take anything away from Miami with those two groups. They are a big part of what defines Miami and is definitely a bonus for that city. What I have a problem with is people twisting that to mean that Miami got that way because it somehow better globally connected. No, it just happens to be the largest American city closest to those cities.
Kind of a bunk comparison--so get rid of the two largest components of the foreign-born population and then it's in line with other large American cities? Why does the comparison warrant a special case where Miami/South Florida gets rid of its two largest foreign populations but without the other places being compared doing the same? Isn't the idea that South Florida is, after getting rid of the two largest populations, then comparable a pretty good sign that South Florida is a lot more diverse and cosmopolitan?


Now, here are the actual really good arguments for Atlanta:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
I think a major criticism of Miami that isn't bought up is the fact that it's economy is vastly working class. It's a beach and resort city first and foremost so it gets that really high tourist numbers, but as far as white collar jobs, it struggles. It doesn't have a full complete economy, though it's economy is still better than Mexico City's because it's located in a developed country, but let's be honest....the only thing that matters in Miami is the coast line and anything within a mile of it.

I think if Miami really wants to succeed as a full and complete city 20 years down the road, it really needs to try to lure more elite industries. I mean, I guess Miami is satisfied with being a beach resort city, but if it really wants that young, intelligent energy that other coastal cities enjoy, it really has to lure some corporations in the city and diversify it's economy a little.

I kind of feel like Miami is one of those cities where you see in those dystopian movies that all of the rich and wealthy live in the sky while the poor live on the ground. The sky would refer to the condos. It's like a bubble that exists. When most think of Miami, it's Miami beach or Downtown Miami or Ft. Lauderdale. Outside of that bubble, there's nothing but poverty, strife, crime, among it's immigrant working class.

These may be the reasons why Miami may have fell behind on this poll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
Yes, it really is.

Especially considering the fact that with Miami's supposedly amazingly superior international connections & flights, international tourism numbers & investment, cute 'North American' offices for various Latin American Banks & corporations, a larger population and absolutely Atlanta-killing numbers of foreign born residents that little 'ole Atlanta still not only has a higher GDP, but also a higher quality of life and educational attainment. Not to mention tens of millions of square feet more office space, white collar jobs and a major corporate presence. It isn't even close.

There is a huge disconnect here, and the reality is very blurred coming from the Miami camp.
The above make sense as these are obviously things that go to Atlanta over Miami. There's little to argue here. Atlanta is simply better for a lot of people when it comes to living and it needs nothing to do with having a nominally larger Asian community or a larger foreign-born population or more deeply entrenched connections to the rest of the world. Atlanta is simply put the more economically diverse and stronger of the two (Atlanta and Miami).

 
Old 06-01-2015, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Miami Beach, FL/Tokyo, Japan
1,699 posts, read 1,483,692 times
Reputation: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
The above make sense as these are obviously things that go to Atlanta over Miami. There's little to argue here. Atlanta is simply better for a lot of people when it comes to living and it needs nothing to do with having a nominally larger Asian community or a larger foreign-born population or more deeply entrenched connections to the rest of the world. Atlanta is simply put the more economically diverse and stronger of the two (Atlanta and Miami).
And notice how I nor any Miami poster on this thread challenged those statements. Because it's true, Atlanta has more of a middle class than we do. We're a city with a lot of wealthy and working class who serve them (waiters, maids, valet, drivers, bouncers) but our middle class white collar jobs are small. I keep saying, you make it somewhere else and move here (like I did, and most people do) or you're a very savvy businessman.

Anyways I want to highlight your post to drive the point home between honest posters and boosters. I'd say Miami posters are far away from boosters, just defending what is false and conceding what is true. Where Atlanta posters are taking this to extremes.
 
Old 06-01-2015, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,874,835 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDPMiami View Post
Let's take a look at what I said:



And that was my first post, later after Atlanta boosters began screaming about your handful of Asians:



I didn't say Atlanta had no global connections just that you're not globally connected to any one region outside of the USA. The sanctions on Russia actually hurt Miami real estate prices as a lot of Russian investors stopped buying. Events in Latin America, especially in countries like Cuba, Haiti, Venezuela, and Brazil are prime pieces of news in Miami when they'd be buried on some back page anywhere else. Are you telling me there is any region outside of the USA that affects Atlanta's day in day out lives? Or do you have just a bunch of Asian foot spas and Ghanese cabbies?
Utterly ridiculous.LOL.Do you not see that is EXACTLY what you said!
Onc again you bring up Atlanta's "handful" of Asians yet several times I have asked several of you to list as least two communities in Miami's metro with Asian population of least 10% even though Atlanta has several of them over 20%.STILL WAITING!
 
Old 06-01-2015, 01:34 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,798 posts, read 11,743,302 times
Reputation: 5394
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Here are the silly Atlanta arguments:





Kind of a bunk comparison--so get rid of the two largest components of the foreign-born population and then it's in line with other large American cities? Why does the comparison warrant a special case where Miami/South Florida gets rid of its two largest foreign populations but without the other places being compared doing the same? Isn't the idea that South Florida is, after getting rid of the two largest populations, then comparable a pretty good sign that South Florida is a lot more diverse and cosmopolitan?


Ok, let's break down the argument in more simplistic terms.

Someone stated that Miami is more "globally connected" because of it's high foreign born population. I made the point that it's only as high as it is because of the Cuban and Haitian immigrants that moved there because they could no longer live their own country, not because of anything particularly special about Miami.

I really don't need anyone's validation for what I write, but I don't like a mischaracterization of what I write.
 
Old 06-01-2015, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,479 posts, read 7,732,352 times
Reputation: 7299
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post


Ok, let's break down the argument in more simplistic terms.

Someone stated that Miami is more "globally connected" because of it's high foreign born population. I made the point that it's only as high as it is because of the Cuban and Haitian immigrants that moved there because they could no longer live their own country, not because of anything particularly special about Miami.

I really don't need anyone's validation for what I write, but I don't like a mischaracterization of what I write.
The reason you're not getting it is because if we subtract 900,000 Cuban + Haitian borns from Miami's total foreign born numbers, then you have to subtract them from Miami's total MSA population as well since we are "taking them out" of the equation altogether.

In that sense, Miami area would have a population of 4.7 million with 1.376 million foreign born (both 2012 numbers), that is just a shade shy of 30% and well within the San Francisco Bay Area and New York range as far as foreign born percentages go. It goes well past 35% when you take out ALL Cubans and Haitians (and not just the foreign born ones).

So he's right, point is bunk because your idea was that Miami will fall to other cities you listed (and one of them was Atlanta, when Miami had three times the percentages and nearly double the actual population in raw numbers when subtracting those groups relative to Atlanta's total), when in regards to percentages that is just not the case.

Either way, it is a more international city than Atlanta. I think that is all the Miami people are even trying to say, don't know why on Earth there's been a discussion about it for over 300 posts but whatever.

Last edited by Facts Kill Rhetoric; 06-01-2015 at 02:25 PM..
 
Old 06-01-2015, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,874,835 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Here are the silly Atlanta arguments:



Again, obviously missing the forest for the trees. Obviously not understanding or willfully ignoring scale.



Kind of a bunk comparison--so get rid of the two largest components of the foreign-born population and then it's in line with other large American cities? Why does the comparison warrant a special case where Miami/South Florida gets rid of its two largest foreign populations but without the other places being compared doing the same? Isn't the idea that South Florida is, after getting rid of the two largest populations, then comparable a pretty good sign that South Florida is a lot more diverse and cosmopolitan?


Now, here are the actual really good arguments for Atlanta:





The above make sense as these are obviously things that go to Atlanta over Miami. There's little to argue here. Atlanta is simply better for a lot of people when it comes to living and it needs nothing to do with having a nominally larger Asian community or a larger foreign-born population or more deeply entrenched connections to the rest of the world. Atlanta is simply put the more economically diverse and stronger of the two (Atlanta and Miami).
A blind person can see you and your Miami posters are being totally biased.
Im not missing anything.
We are discussing how cnnected these cities are to the world.You guys have shot down the buisness connection,the flight connections and now whole communities where the Asian population is over 20% as if thats all insignificant.

IM about to put an end to this and show you how BIASED you are:

Several of you for Miami have brought up certain communities like::
*Jamaicans which make up roughly the same percentage of Indians in Atlanta.
*Brazilians are far less in number in Miami than there are Koreans in Atlanta.
*The largest Russian community has 3.9%(Sunny Isles)while the Miami metro is less than 1%.The Nigerian community in Atlanta is about the same.

So I gave you examples of Atlanta Asian communities where its higher in the region than any of these communities and even though you all downpayed that I then gave select communities(like some of you did) where the populations was well over 20% and you still said it was small potatoes.
BAM!!!JUST SIT DOWN IN A CORNER BECAUSE YOU KNOW YALL ARE SO DISHONEST.

Last edited by afonega1; 06-01-2015 at 02:38 PM..
 
Old 06-01-2015, 02:13 PM
 
Location: In the heights
20,197 posts, read 21,793,720 times
Reputation: 10258
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post


Ok, let's break down the argument in more simplistic terms.

Someone stated that Miami is more "globally connected" because of it's high foreign born population. I made the point that it's only as high as it is because of the Cuban and Haitian immigrants that moved there because they could no longer live their own country, not because of anything particularly special about Miami.

I really don't need anyone's validation for what I write, but I don't like a mischaracterization of what I write.
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
A blind person can see you and your Miami posters are being totally biased.
Im not missing anything.
We are discussing how cnnected these cities are to the world.You guys have shot down the buisness connection,the flight connections and now whole communities where the Asian population is over 20% as if thats all insignificant.

IM about to put an end to this and show you how BIASED you are:

Several of you for Miami have brought up certain communities like::
*Jamaicans which make up roughly the same percentage of Indians in Atlanta.
*Brazilians are far less in number in Miami than there are Koreans in Atlanta.
*The largest Russian community has 3.9%(Sunny Isles)while the Miami metro is less than 1%

So I gave you examples of Atlanta Asian communities where its higher in the region than any of these communities and even though you all downpayed that I then gave select communities(like some of you did) where the populations was well over 20% and you still said it was small potatoes.
BAM!!!JUST SIT DOWN IN A CORNER BECAUSE YOU KNOW YALL ARE SO DISHONEST.
The blind wouldn't really be seeing much of anything actually.

Even after rejiggering the numbers by getting rid of the two largest immigration groups (with the argument that these people left because they can no longer live in their own countries--pretty much a bunk argument because economic migrants are pretty much the vast bulk of US immigrants and have been since the beginning and would be applicable to almost all immigration groups in any city), you still have South Florida up ahead on this metric.

You're also playing with pretty unreasonable math in saying 20% of anything--20% of the metro or 20% of a small legal municipality? Again, bunk math. It doesn't matter because these specific immigration numbers mean fairly little in terms of the vastly larger immigration populations from elsewhere and the tallying of all the raw numbers in sum. It simply doesn't fit the kind of emphasis you're placing.

Now if you wanted to argue solely on global 500 companies or the like, then sure, that can obviously be in Atlanta's favor--so why not actually just argue along the lines which are actually solidly in Atlanta's favor? It doesn't really make much sense that you're throwing a conniption fit over something so obviously born out in the data and on the ground level.
 
Old 06-01-2015, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,874,835 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red John View Post
The reason you're not getting it is because if we subtract 900,000 Cuban + Haitian borns from Miami's total foreign born numbers, then you have to subtract them from Miami's total MSA population as well since we are "taking them out" of the equation.

In that sense, Miami area would have a population of 4.7 million with 1.3 million foreign born, that is just a shade shy of 30% and well within the San Francisco Bay Area and New York range as far as foreign born percentages go. It goes well past 30% when you take out ALL Cubans and Haitians (and not just the foreign born ones).

So he's right, point is bunk because your idea was that Miami will fall to other cities you listed (and one of them was Atlanta, when Miami had three times the percentages and nearly double the population when subtracting those groups relative to Atlanta's total), when in regards to percentages that is just not the case.

Either way, it is a more international city than Atlanta.
You tried changing it because you were loosing the discussion and deflecting before you posted more irrelevant stuff you had already posted several times before.
 
Old 06-01-2015, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,874,835 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
The blind wouldn't really be seeing much of anything actually.

Even after rejiggering the numbers by getting rid of the two largest immigration groups (with the argument that these people left because they can no longer live in their own countries--pretty much a bunk argument because economic migrants are pretty much the vast bulk of US immigrants and have been since the beginning and would be applicable to almost all immigration groups in any city), you still have South Florida up ahead on this metric.

You're also playing with pretty unreasonable math in saying 20% of anything--20% of the metro or 20% of a small legal municipality? Again, bunk math. It doesn't matter because these specific immigration numbers mean fairly little in terms of the vastly larger immigration populations from elsewhere and the tallying of all the raw numbers in sum. It simply doesn't fit the kind of emphasis you're placing.

Now if you wanted to argue solely on global 500 companies or the like, then sure, that can obviously be in Atlanta's favor--so why not actually just argue along the lines which are actually solidly in Atlanta's favor? It doesn't really make much sense that you're throwing a conniption fit over something so obviously born out in the data and on the ground level.
Funny how that was not "bunk math" when you guys bring up Jamaican,Russian,Brazilian populations etc,.Those are large immigrating communities also.So its okay for Miami but not Atlanta to use?Tell me how its different?
 
Old 06-01-2015, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,874,835 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDPMiami View Post
And notice how I nor any Miami poster on this thread challenged those statements. Because it's true, Atlanta has more of a middle class than we do. We're a city with a lot of wealthy and working class who serve them (waiters, maids, valet, drivers, bouncers) but our middle class white collar jobs are small. I keep saying, you make it somewhere else and move here (like I did, and most people do) or you're a very savvy businessman.

Anyways I want to highlight your post to drive the point home between honest posters and boosters. I'd say Miami posters are far away from boosters, just defending what is false and conceding what is true. Where Atlanta posters are taking this to extremes.
Dude from the beginning you made several false remarks about Atlanta starting with it being a population of 4 million and it went on from there.You know you guys have no leg to stand on.
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