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Old 05-27-2015, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,764 posts, read 12,741,891 times
Reputation: 5440

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[quote=msamhunter;39771736][quote=jbcmh81;39766279][quote=urbanologist;39762385]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post

Neither city is blowing the other put of the water and each is trying to make up some of its short comings. Cbus is investingore in the core while Indy is investing more in its outer hoods where it can. Downtown Indy is still better while cbus immediate hoods still better. You tend to act hurt when someone doesn't proclaim cbus to be the ultimate everything. It's 3rd fiddle in its own state and with good reason, it lacks the bones of the other 2 and every metric you propose is based off of personal opinion of the individual so no right or wrong answer. GDP is a quantifiable metric. It is what it is but this convo has veered all the way left of that.
Columbus isn't the ultimate in everything and has a lot of flaws, but when comparing downtowns TODAY, I'm not sure there's really all that much difference anymore. As far as density goes, it's measurably different in Columbus than Indianapolis. That's not speculation or homerism, it's a fact. It's also now more dense than Cincinnati and closing the gap pretty quickly vs. Cleveland.
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Old 05-27-2015, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
8,259 posts, read 13,526,401 times
Reputation: 5812
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Columbus isn't the ultimate in everything and has a lot of flaws, but when comparing downtowns TODAY, I'm not sure there's really all that much difference anymore.
Based on what? Use specific examples from both cities.
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Old 05-27-2015, 09:53 AM
 
1,480 posts, read 1,287,072 times
Reputation: 1486
[quote=jbcmh81;39778160][quote=msamhunter;39771736][quote=jbcmh81;39766279]
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanologist View Post

Columbus isn't the ultimate in everything and has a lot of flaws, but when comparing downtowns TODAY, I'm not sure there's really all that much difference anymore. As far as density goes, it's measurably different in Columbus than Indianapolis. That's not speculation or homerism, it's a fact. It's also now more dense than Cincinnati and closing the gap pretty quickly vs. Cleveland.
If it isn't homerism then what is it? Columbus has Indy beat in the education sector and no one argues that point. Columbus has a better core and developed neighborhoods ... no argument. Indy has its flaws however when someone points Columbus flaw you make up justifications. Bottom line is Indy's GDP is higher so get over it.
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Old 05-27-2015, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,764 posts, read 12,741,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Toast View Post
Based on what? Use specific examples from both cities.
We've been talking about examples for pages now.
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Old 05-27-2015, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,764 posts, read 12,741,891 times
Reputation: 5440
[quote=Dyadic;39778804][quote=jbcmh81;39778160][quote=msamhunter;39771736]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post

If it isn't homerism then what is it? Columbus has Indy beat in the education sector and no one argues that point. Columbus has a better core and developed neighborhoods ... no argument. Indy has its flaws however when someone points Columbus flaw you make up justifications. Bottom line is Indy's GDP is higher so get over it.
I have said Indy's downtown was better for a long time. I'm just not sure if that's still an easy argument.

I also never denied the GDP was higher, so there's nothing to get over.

I'm also wondering why/how none of the Indy posters are engaging in homerism.
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Old 05-27-2015, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
6,205 posts, read 8,352,813 times
Reputation: 4622
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post

I have said Indy's downtown was better for a long time. I'm just not sure if that's still an easy argument.

I also never denied the GDP was higher, so there's nothing to get over.

I'm also wondering why/how none of the Indy posters are engaging in homerism.
Please fix your quotes, there are 3 names you're attempting to quote in your links and it's coming back as you quoting yourself.
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Old 05-27-2015, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
8,259 posts, read 13,526,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
We've been talking about examples for pages now.
I've seen your commentary so far. If I thought it satisfied my question, I would not have asked.

Nothing you have said would back up your claim that downtown Columbus has caught up with downtown Indianapolis. Please don't deflect again, I don't want to have to show you again what you said so far. Essentially, your reasons so far are that "conventions are dumb" with "Wholesale District looks like any other downtown" sprinkled with some "office buildings don't cut it and it is possible I don't know what I am talking about." At least you nailed it with that last one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Maybe 10 years ago? Today, I wouldn't be so sure about that.



The actual difference between Downtown Columbus and Indy is pretty quickly closing, so that advantage is going away, if it truly even exists anymore. There is a reason Columbus is a top 15 fastest-growing city and Indy is well... not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
You know what I think of when I think of conventions? Old guys in Des Moines selling bathroom products. Something to hang your hat on, I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
?? The other side of 70 from what?? It's IN Downtown. There is no highway between it and the rest of the neighborhood. It's directly across from the convention center and is just south of the Short North. It's all grouped together, making it a continuous urban area that Indy simply does not have.

The Wholesale District looks pretty much like any other nondescript downtown area, except with a mall.

I'm thinking you need to rethink what urban vibrancy means. A mall and some office buildings doesn't cut it, because WD looks like any part of a downtown in the Midwest. Columbus has areas that look just like that too. Luckily, that's not all it has.

I'm thinking you are perhaps not that aware of what's going on in Columbus, and perhaps I'm not that aware of what's going on in Indy... but come on. Indy is not some urban mecca. It's density can't even hold a candle to Columbus, let alone Milwaukee.
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Old 05-27-2015, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Earth
2,549 posts, read 3,112,295 times
Reputation: 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
No, but even Austin isn't growing like it once did. Huge population booms like that have expiration dates. And to be fair, I'm not saying that Indy's growth is bad, because it's not, especially for the Midwest, but for whatever reason, I don't think it's truly capitalizing on its strengths. Being a sports capital or whatever only gets you so far, and I think Indianapolis does a really bad job at fixing the livability stuff like crime, walkability, transit and infrastructure. Granted, Columbus does a crappy job on transit too, but it does a lot of the small stuff right, and I think that matters much more than being known for one thing.
Between 2010 and 2014 Austin's population has jumped from 912,791 to 790,390 at a +15.49% clip. I don't see that as a sign of slowing growth. Well, any city could have a slow down period but we are talking about right now. Indy could do a better job on crime but it's not the city with all the protesters out in the street like you see in Cleveland right now. As for walkability downtown Columbus doesn't have anything of quality to match Indy's Cultural Trail which connects all it's neighborhoods going above the typical ordinary boring concrete sidewalk design.


Quote:
No, its design and implementation makes it suburban.
Suburban how? Circle Centre has street level businesses and entrances along it's perimeter with connecting skywalks to other buildings in a urban setting. That's not something your going to find in the city's burbs. Going past the sidewalks you are surrounded by streets not huge asphalt surface parking covering several acres that you typically find with an enclosed mall located in the suburbs. You do know th some of the oldest enclosed malls in the country are actually located in some downtowns of other cities existing well before any of the enclosed mall designs reached the burbs so you are incorrect. If it were located in the suburbs surrounded by huge acreage of surface parking then yes but it is not.

Quote:
?? The other side of 70 from what?? It's IN Downtown. There is no highway between it and the rest of the neighborhood. It's directly across from the convention center and is just south of the Short North. It's all grouped together, making it a continuous urban area that Indy simply does not have.

The Wholesale District looks pretty much like any other nondescript downtown area, except with a mall.
I'm thinking of the Brewery District. The Wholesale District is more established with older buildings especially along the dense Meridian Street corridor. The Arena District is newer, isolated and seems disconnected from the rest of downtown compared to the Wholesale District. It's not as if you have City Center a block over for retail which it lacks.

Quote:
I'm thinking you need to rethink what urban vibrancy means. A mall and some office buildings doesn't cut it, because WD looks like any part of a downtown in the Midwest. Columbus has areas that look just like that too. Luckily, that's not all it has.
The Wholesale District is something the Arena District can aspire to become.


Quote:
I'm thinking you are perhaps not that aware of what's going on in Columbus, and perhaps I'm not that aware of what's going on in Indy... but come on. Indy is not some urban mecca. It's density can't even hold a candle to Columbus, let alone Milwaukee.
Neither city is New Olreans or Boston but it's good to see competition between the two to become better urban cities.
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Old 05-27-2015, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Earth
2,549 posts, read 3,112,295 times
Reputation: 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyadic View Post

If it isn't homerism then what is it? Columbus has Indy beat in the education sector and no one argues that point. Columbus has a better core and developed neighborhoods ... no argument. Indy has its flaws however when someone points Columbus flaw you make up justifications. Bottom line is Indy's GDP is higher so get over it.
This quote actually came from jbcmh81 on page 8. I don't like to use the word 'homerism'. Yes, Indy's GDP is higher I absolutely agree.
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Old 05-27-2015, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,764 posts, read 12,741,891 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Toast View Post
I've seen your commentary so far. If I thought it satisfied my question, I would not have asked.

Nothing you have said would back up your claim that downtown Columbus has caught up with downtown Indianapolis. Please don't deflect again, I don't want to have to show you again what you said so far. Essentially, your reasons so far are that "conventions are dumb" with "Wholesale District looks like any other downtown" sprinkled with some "office buildings don't cut it and it is possible I don't know what I am talking about." At least you nailed it with that last one.
First of all, which downtown is "better" is going to be subjective no matter what, but perhaps we should come up with some criteria for what may constitute better in this case. Population, density, # of amenities, parks, total downtown malls? I don't know.

Second, way to take those lines out of context. A real burn, that was.
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