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Much in the way the Ivy League are the "Elite Eight colleges" being all from the NE.
San Francisco, DC, LA, Pittsburgh, and St. Louis should be the other five that are in that same top tier.
Then you have solid second-tier orchestras such as Minneapolis, Detroit, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Seattle, Atlanta, New Jersey, Baltimore, Buffalo, San Diego, Denver, and Dallas. Much like many groups there is a perceived hiearchy.
It is of course, a highly subjective assessment, but I think there are several qualities which are shared by top orchestras: touring activity, particularly to the most sophisticated world centers of classical music--such as London, NY, Vienna, and Berlin; recording activity and the positive critical response to those recordings; the prominence of the current music director; and an international pool of candidates for open positions. These are all important factors because the orchestral musicians are the core of any great orchestra, and those musicians are justifiably proud of their accomplishments. Those instrumentalists know that working with a talented conductor and gifted orchestral mates can help them hone their skills. They also relish the opportunity to showcase their personal and collective talents via touring and recording.
I would argue that there are eight elite orchestras in The US right now: the orchestras of Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Chicago, Minneapolis, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. By "elite", I mean that these orchestras are at a technical level which can match the four most prominent European orchestras (Vienna Philharmonic, Berlin Philharmonic, Amsterdam Concertgebouw, London Symphony). The primary distinctions among those twelve orchestras are not based upon technical ability, but rather upon the stylistic differences imbued by their respective music directors.
To round-out an American top ten, I think Pittsburgh and St Louis are just out of that elite category. You then a have a group of very good orchestras that have achieved some level of national prominence, and some international renown: Metropolitan Opera, Baltimore, Washington, Cincinnati, Detroit, St Paul, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, and Seattle.
Going beyond those twenty ensembles, you're talking about orchestras that are best described as being regionally prominent.
I'm also wondering, this time regarding Canada: How do the symphony orchestras of Montreal (my home town) and Toronto line up with the Big Five or the other good American symphony orchestras? I'd imagine that Montreal would have been on a higher level than Toronto at least in the not too distant past.
I'm also wondering, this time regarding Canada: How do the symphony orchestras of Montreal (my home town) and Toronto line up with the Big Five or the other good American symphony orchestras? I'd imagine that Montreal would have been on a higher level than Toronto at least in the not too distant past.
Montreal was definitely world class when Dutoit was there. They recorded extensively for Decca, and were often referred to as the best "French" orchestra in the world (France itself has had numerous great instrumental soloists, but arguably, not a world class orchestra). It is definitely Canada's top orchestra. I think the current music director, Kent Nagano, has certainly maintained a high level of performance--probably would rank in the 9-10 spot if it were an American orchestra.
The Toronto Symphony had some good years under Andrew Davis (he's still conductor laureate), but even at its best, would probably only fit in near the bottom of the American top twenty.
Montreal was definitely world class when Dutoit was there. They recorded extensively for Decca, and were often referred to as the best "French" orchestra in the world (France itself has had numerous great instrumental soloists, but arguably, not a world class orchestra). It is definitely Canada's top orchestra. I think the current music director, Kent Nagano, has certainly maintained a high level of performance--probably would rank in the 9-10 spot if it were an American orchestra.
The Toronto Symphony had some good years under Andrew Davis (he's still conductor laureate), but even at its best, would probably only fit in near the bottom of the American top twenty.
So you'd rank Montreal around Pittsburgh or St. Louis rather than Cleveland, Boston, NY, etc., and Toronto around something like Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, or Seattle?
So you'd rank Montreal around Pittsburgh or St. Louis rather than Cleveland, Boston, NY, etc., and Toronto around something like Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, or Seattle?
That would certainly be my opinion. I've heard both orchestras live within the last five years.
I still have several of the OSM recordings with Charles Dutoit--he was there for twenty-five years--and many of those performances (particularly Ravel and Stravinsky) seem near-perfect to me. Fifteen years ago, they were undoubtedly among the world's best. Dutoit left Montreal in 2002 amid a lot of bitter discord between himself, the musicians, and the union. I do think the orchestra suffered a slight setback as a result.
That would certainly be my opinion. I've heard both orchestras live within the last five years.
I still have several of the OSM recordings with Charles Dutoit--he was there for twenty-five years--and many of those performances (particularly Ravel and Stravinsky) seem near-perfect to me. Fifteen years ago, they were undoubtedly among the world's best. Dutoit left Montreal in 2002 amid a lot of bitter discord between himself, the musicians, and the union. I do think the orchestra suffered a slight setback as a result.
The bottom line with Montreal is that it would always have been near but not at the Big Five if Montreal were in the US?!
Montreal was definitely world class when Dutoit was there. They recorded extensively for Decca, and were often referred to as the best "French" orchestra in the world (France itself has had numerous great instrumental soloists, but arguably, not a world class orchestra). It is definitely Canada's top orchestra. I think the current music director, Kent Nagano, has certainly maintained a high level of performance--probably would rank in the 9-10 spot if it were an American orchestra.
The Toronto Symphony had some good years under Andrew Davis (he's still conductor laureate), but even at its best, would probably only fit in near the bottom of the American top twenty.
Interestingly Yannick Nezet-Seguin, current music dir. of the Phila. Orch., is still the artistic director of the Montreal's other orchestra. He's from Montreal so I don't think he will give up that post.
That would certainly be my opinion. I've heard both orchestras live within the last five years.
I still have several of the OSM recordings with Charles Dutoit--he was there for twenty-five years--and many of those performances (particularly Ravel and Stravinsky) seem near-perfect to me. Fifteen years ago, they were undoubtedly among the world's best. Dutoit left Montreal in 2002 amid a lot of bitter discord between himself, the musicians, and the union. I do think the orchestra suffered a slight setback as a result.
Well, you may know that he became the "substitute" music director in Phila. after Christoph Eschenbach's contract was not renewed. He helped "bridge the gap" between Eschenbach and Nezet-Seguin and helped the orchestra overcome the regrettable bankruptcy period which ended in 2012. He didn't get enough credit for doing what he did, IMO.
The bottom line with Montreal is that it would always have been near but not at the Big Five if Montreal were in the US?!
Again, these are just personal opinions. There really isn't a "Big Five" in The US anymore. There hasn't been for a few decades. It's not a term that classical music critics or classical music fans tend to use. Another group of orchestras, numbering from 2-5 depending upon one's opinion, have achieved artistic parity with those traditional top five orchestras. It's even been suggested that a couple of those five have dropped out of the elite level, at least for a couple of seasons here and there.
As for Montreal, I would suggest that, during the latter portion of Dutoit's tenure (basically, the 1990s), it was an elite world orchestra--possibly a top ten in the world, and perhaps better than a couple of those traditional "Big Five". Today, I think they fall into a group just short of that level.
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