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View Poll Results: What major city in America would you say embody what people would view or describe as "American
New York City 35 16.20%
Miami 1 0.46%
Chicago 108 50.00%
Los Angeles 6 2.78%
Dallas 16 7.41%
Washington D.C. 12 5.56%
Atlanta 8 3.70%
Phoenix 6 2.78%
Seattle 1 0.46%
Philadelphia 23 10.65%
Voters: 216. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-22-2016, 09:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
He said he sounds more NYish than he did Chicago. Not that he sounds like a full-blown New Yorker.

Chicago Bobby mentions in the video that he's Italian-American. Perhaps there are some linguistic similarities between Italian communities in different cities across the country. At any rate, most posters in the Chicago forum noted that most White people in Chicago don't sound like him.
Link to thread?

I don't hear any Italian in his accent. Such an influence would indicate tensed short I vowels, broad A's, RP short e vowels, rounded O vowels, and very closed mouth U vowels.

English spoken with an Italian inflection sounds a lot more like this

https://youtu.be/2-Rjpf55jlk

At any rate, I wish people could explain what "NYish" means cuz it sure seems that Chicago Bobby has every Chicago feature in the book. Whoever says that White Chicagoans don't have those features needs to explain what it is about his accent that isn't Chicago. If anything I can point out more NON New York characteristics.
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Old 07-22-2016, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Link to thread?
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
First off, not everyone from Chicago sounds like the first guy. In fact, there's tons and tons of people who don't sound like that. It exists, but it's pretty overdone in reality by people not from here, majorly because of the SNL skits in the 80s. The accent isn't fake, but if you expect to hear everyone sound like that when you visit, you may be in for a little surprise IMO. It's kind of like how everyone thinks that everybody from Minnesota has a "Minnesota accent" and is surprised when I don't have one, and when I tell them that it's only a northern thing.
Why is the Chicago "Blaccent" More Southern than Boston/NYC/Philly's?
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Old 07-22-2016, 10:07 AM
 
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You realize that marothisu was saying that while there aren't a lot of people who sound like him that he still never said anything about it sounding not regional? Seems only Kamms had the idea that it wasn't Chicago. It also depends where he lives. If he lives on the North side there is a good chance he has never heard a Chicago accent due to the fact Midland dialects dominate that area due to transplants.
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Old 07-22-2016, 10:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
The mere presence of Northern Cities Vowel Shift means that Chicago does not have a chance at sounding General American. Philly's vowels are within the General American spectrum whereas Chicago invents new ones. Philly is also within Midland accent territory meaning it does approximate General American more.



You realize you only posted one actual Philly accent right? And Steve Martorano has an ethnolect used by South Philly Italians (meaning not most people in Philly). That is quite a dishonest way to prove a point. Most people in Philly don't have the ethnolect. Does Chris Matthews sound that way? No. Neither does Jim Cramer or even Tina Fey using her exaggerated Philly accent.





Does that sound General American to you? Heck it sounds like a Minnesota thing at times (I guess if you consider Minnesota General American that's on you though I don't know why). I guess the simple fact that a nationally recognized TV show made fun of how Chicagoans speak should be a dead giveaway that they speak extremely distinctive. Has anyone done that for Philly? No because to most ears a Philadelphia accent is not distinctive.

Something more General American:





Compare that to Philly:





Also, Philly doesn't have a ton of non Anglo influence on its accent. Most of it is from the English West Country and also Scotland. Chicago on the other hand has a more varied origin due to the fact many Whites in Chicago have more recent ties to the old country. So as far "European" influence outside of the British Isles, Chicago wins. Therefore making it more removed from General American.
The Chicago "accent" sounds general American. The Philly accent is thicker and more prevalent. Aso posting accent videos that are dedicated accent videos are dishonest because they are often forced and not speaking in their regular way of speaking. That's why all of my examples are people speaking naturally without them being purposely accent videos. Second, the Chicago "Bobby accent" video is fraudulent. It sounds nothing like a real Chicagoan accent and you won't be able to post another Chicago "accent" video who also talks like that naturally again. I'm mean this is the same Chicago Bobby guy talking again in another one of his videos which sounds pretty different speaking when he is speaking naturally.


Which proves my point that dedicated accent videos are often forced and exaggerated which leads to in inaccuracy.

Also there is not one exact Philly accent. Chris Matthews has a far Northeast Philly accent which sounds different from Jim Cramer who has a suburban Philly accent which technically is not even a Philly, Philly accent if that makes any sense.
Here is another Philly accent from Representative Bob Brady, who obviously Irish judging from his last name. He is from the river ward of Port Richmond, Philly


Mayfair lower Northeast accents


Again all of these people speak naturally without forcing anything.
Also what I'm not saying is that Chicago does not have an accent I'm just saying that it is very light which causes it to sound general American. The Philly accent sounds thicker and more exotic which in result deviates further away from the general American accent. For example, the three way pronunciation distinction of Marry, Mary and Merry is only featured in Philly, NYC, Boston and English speakers from outside of the U.S. Chicago on the other hand merge 2 of the the 3 or all 3 like the rest of the U.S..

Aslo your when it comes to your DA Bears example, Chicagoans all the time say that is an exaggerated and inaccurate parody of the way they speak which is why they hate it. Also with Chicago being populated with fellow Midwestern places like Iowa which is the quintessential general American accent speaking state.
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Old 07-22-2016, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
You realize that marothisu was saying that while there aren't a lot of people who sound like him that he still never said anything about it sounding not regional?
I didn't say anything about it sounding regional or not. I said that most posters said that that wasn't how most White people in Chicago sound. In other words, it is not representative of the way most people there speak. So I don't see how that's much different from you pointing out that most Philadelphians don't sound like Steve Martorano.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Seems only Kamms had the idea that it wasn't Chicago. It also depends where he lives. If he lives on the North side there is a good chance he has never heard a Chicago accent due to the fact Midland dialects dominate that area due to transplants.
About half of the residents of the 60622 zip code were born in Illinois. It seems you would have enough natives to have some meaningful exposure to a Chicago accent.
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Old 07-22-2016, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
You realize you only posted one actual Philly accent right? And Steve Martorano has an ethnolect used by South Philly Italians (meaning not most people in Philly). That is quite a dishonest way to prove a point.
It's not just South Philly Italians. I think that manner of speech is most strongly associated with South Philly because that was (is) the cultural heart of the city's Italian-American community. But that ethnolect is not limited to Italians in South Philadelphia.
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Old 07-22-2016, 10:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
It's not just South Philly Italians. I think that manner of speech is most strongly associated with South Philly because that was (is) the cultural heart of the city's Italian-American community. But that ethnolect is not limited to Italians in South Philadelphia.
If that is the case then why is non-rhoticity considered an Italian and Black thing in Philly?

South Philly's accent is honestly not much different than the rest of Delaware Valley English. Unless Blacks or Italians speak it. There are little to non-rhotic Irish people or Jews in Philly
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Old 07-22-2016, 10:44 AM
 
4,801 posts, read 3,438,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I didn't say anything about it sounding regional or not. I said that most posters said that that wasn't how most White people in Chicago sound. In other words, it is not representative of the way most people there speak. So I don't see how that's much different from you pointing out that most Philadelphians don't sound like Steve Martorano.
If we are gonna argue opinions of other people not in this thread I see no point. Linguistics prove that Chicago Bobby had a textbook Chicago accent whether some want to believe it or not.


Quote:
About half of the residents of the 60622 zip code were born in Illinois. It seems you would have enough natives to have some meaningful exposure to a Chicago accent.
Illinois or Chicago? English spoken in Chicago is very different than Illinois English (Midland). Also, 60622 is a tiiiiiiiiiiiiny portion of the North Side

Last edited by EddieOlSkool; 07-22-2016 at 11:08 AM..
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Old 07-22-2016, 11:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nephi215 View Post
The Chicago "accent" sounds general American.
Let's ignore linguistic studies to just prove a point! This is despite the fact that every linguist out there consistently says that Chicago English is a strong deviation from General American.

Quote:
The Philly accent is thicker and more prevalent. Aso posting accent videos that are dedicated accent videos are dishonest because they are often forced and not speaking in their regular way of speaking. That's why all of my examples are people speaking naturally without them being purposely accent videos. Second, the Chicago "Bobby accent" video is fraudulent. It sounds nothing like a real Chicagoan accent and you won't be able to post another Chicago "accent" video who also talks like that naturally again. I'm mean this is the same Chicago Bobby guy talking again in another one of his videos which sounds pretty different speaking when he is speaking naturally.
He sounds exactly the same! Still has the exact same vowel pronunciation.

Also, what do you mean by "thicker". It deviates LESS from standard American so how is that thick? Whatever "distinct" features Philly has, Chicago has enough to match if not more.

Quote:
Which proves my point that dedicated accent videos are often forced and exaggerated which leads to in inaccuracy.
But you haven't shown this in any way.

Quote:
Also there is not one exact Philly accent. Chris Matthews has a far Northeast Philly accent which sounds different from Jim Cramer who has a suburban Philly accent which technically is not even a Philly, Philly accent if that makes any sense.
Here is another Philly accent from Representative Bob Brady, who obviously Irish judging from his last name. He is from the river ward of Port Richmond, Philly


Mayfair lower Northeast accents


Again all of these people speak naturally without forcing anything.
You've not Proven that making an accent video causes anyone to force anything. If that was the case, you'd have a lot of people in the videos sounding more distinct and the truth is most don't in practically all accent videos. You want me to post some Philly ones to show you?

Quote:
Also what I'm not saying is that Chicago does not have an accent I'm just saying that it is very light which causes it to sound general American. The Philly accent sounds thicker and more exotic which in result deviates further away from the general American accent. For example, the three way pronunciation distinction of Marry, Mary and Merry is only featured in Philly, NYC, Boston and English speakers from outside of the U.S. Chicago on the other hand merge 2 of the the 3 or all 3 like the rest of the U.S..
The Mary-merry-marry merger is all you go off of? How about the fact that in Chicago all short vowels are said in ways that are not said in most of the country? Philly short vowels are Standard American ones. That's a pretty big difference in affecting how someone speaks. How about the fact that Chicago has strong O and U backing that are only heard in small portions of the country? Literally the way we say our O and U sounds is isolated to a very small region.

Quote:
Aslo your when it comes to your DA Bears example, Chicagoans all the time say that is an exaggerated and inaccurate parody of the way they speak which is why they hate it. Also with Chicago being populated with fellow Midwestern places like Iowa which is the quintessential general American accent speaking state.
So? Pennsylvania invented the Midland accent. Iowa wouldn't even the speak it does if the Midland accent didn't spread West from the Mid-Atlantic. And you know why Chicagoans hate that skit? Because they mock us as if we speak with Wisconsin accents. It is not accurate. Doesn't mean Chicago accents aren't thick. If they weren't then nobody would see a reason to mock us.
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Old 07-22-2016, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,611 posts, read 24,793,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
If that is the case then why is non-rhoticity considered an Italian and Black thing in Philly?

South Philly's accent is honestly not much different than the rest of Delaware Valley English. Unless Blacks or Italians speak it. There are little to non-rhotic Irish people or Jews in Philly
I don't think you understood me. I bolded "South Philly Italians" to make the point that Martorano's manner of speech is characteristic of Italians in the entire Delaware Valley, not just South Philly. There is no "South Philly accent" just as there is no "Brooklyn accent." South Philadelphia simply has a lot of Italians so people associate South Philly with Italians. But in my experience, Italians born and raised in the Northeast or Delaware County sound like Italians raised in S. Philly.
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