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View Poll Results: What major city in America would you say embody what people would view or describe as "American
New York City 35 16.20%
Miami 1 0.46%
Chicago 108 50.00%
Los Angeles 6 2.78%
Dallas 16 7.41%
Washington D.C. 12 5.56%
Atlanta 8 3.70%
Phoenix 6 2.78%
Seattle 1 0.46%
Philadelphia 23 10.65%
Voters: 216. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-26-2016, 08:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
That's really not true in the least.

Again, as others have noted, you're cherry-picking a couple of similarities and extrapolating to an entire region. Why would an accent be referred to as "Delaware Valley English," if it's not distinctive to the Delaware Valley?

In fact, Slate, in an article from 2014, referred to Pennsylvania generally as "the most linguistically rich state in the country" for the distinctiveness of its several regional accents: Pennsylvania dialects: From Pittsburghese to Philadelphia speak, the Keystone state is fascinating.

There's a reason why, as someone who grew up in Southeastern PA and have lived outside of the region for some time now and have a solid basis of comparison in terms of regional linguistics, that I can spot a Philly/South Jersey accent from a mile away.

For example, when I moved to Boston area, I remember watching the local weather, listening to the meteoroligst talk (Danielle Vollmar of WCVB), thinking that she had to be from the Philly area. Just out of curiosity, I quickly Googled, and sure enough, she's a Lansdale, PA native.

The point is--by trying to generalize overall accent features, particularly when you're talking about this very theoretically, you're missing a lot of nuances of dialects (local vernacular, for one) that can only truly be captured by one's ear, as opposed to a purely academic description.
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait

How can you say it is not true that the DV English extends into other states and then contradict yourself by including Jersey in the other part of your post?

The "Philly" accent is a term that refers to Mid Atlantic English which includes the Philly metro, SEPA, South Jersey, NE Maryland, and Northern Delaware. That is more than one state.
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Old 07-26-2016, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,612 posts, read 24,802,203 times
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Why do we call it "New York City English" when a "New York City" accent can be heard outside of the city limits?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_English

This is getting sad.

Last edited by BajanYankee; 07-26-2016 at 08:41 AM..
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Old 07-26-2016, 08:41 AM
 
1,225 posts, read 1,505,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Oh because when they hear a Philadelphian say "awll" for oil and "taw-uhk" for talk and "farr" for fire they're going to guess only the North? Most likely they will think "wtf is this weird thing". You act like those NYisms are the only thing that sets Philly apart. They're gonna hear the long O sound and think NOT New York so what is your point? That's why the Philly accent has a more spread out true American sound because it has features of ALL regions really.

Bajan, what are the Midland features of Chicago? It has no goat/goose fronting, no short a split system / nasal short a system, glide deletion before L or R, or any Midland short vowels. So I am trying to figure out what Midland features Chicago has in its accent.

Besides, you know what accent has its own bubble? St. Louis. It is one of the Inland North dialects that actually is within its own island and is separate from other Inland North and Midland accents. So Philly merely being a bubble within the Midland accent means nothing. Pittsburgh is another bubble within the Midland category and is still Midland. The fact is Philly and the South Jersey/Baltimore area are one greater bubble of the DV English and still with Midland parameters which is why they are called Atlantic Midland. This same category includes General American. Hate to break it to you. Chicago is firmly within Northern accent parameters and this isn't only Labov saying that.
"Oil" as "awl" and talk as "taw-uhk" "fire" as "farr".
Wtf. No one talks like that. Here are actual Philly accent speakers saying words like "oil" and "talk"



You are not a linguist and you know nothing about the Philly accent. Also if you ask anyone not familiar with the deeper stratification of accents (the average ears) they will say the Philly person sounds like he is from the "Northeast" or east coast (which people are pertaining to the coastal northeast when they that) and for Chicago they will draw blank or say "Midwest". I won't even address the rest of your nonsense.
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Old 07-26-2016, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
No it sounds like it fits into the Great Lakes which includes part of the Northeast.
So in other words it sounds like...

Lansing
Grand Rapids
Cedar Rapids
Akron
Flint
Wilkes-Barre
Scranton

etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
On the other hand, Great Lakes English is spoken in the whole of ONE state in the Midwest and that is Michigan. All other Midwest states that feature it have it in one small corner of their state. It is spoken in a small portion of Illinois, one city in Missouri, a tiny corner of Indiana, a small sliver of Eastern Wisconsin, and the Lake Erie area of Ohio. It is also spoken in a lot of New York State, Northern Pennsylvania except Erie, and reaches far into the limits of New England. Nice try though.
You do realize that that's getting close to a majority of people in the Midwest, right?

In your mind, I think you believe people only associate the Lower Midwest with the "Midwest," but that's far from true.

And I never said the Inland North was exclusive to the Midwest. In fact, I said that its broad reach is what makes it less unique than the Delaware Valley accent.
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Old 07-26-2016, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nephi215 View Post
You are not a linguist and you know nothing about the Philly accent. Also if you ask anyone not familiar with the deeper stratification of accents (the average ears) they will say the Philly person sounds like he is from the "Northeast" or east coast (which people are pertaining to the coastal northeast when they that) and for Chicago they will draw blank or say "Midwest". I won't even address the rest of your nonsense.
He is a linguist to the extent that he's read articles that you, I or anyone else could read by going on the internet.

The accent argument is stupid because neither city has that distinctive an accent. And this argument that people are going to think "Northern" when they hear someone from Michigan is silly. That might be the case for someone from the deepest of the Deep South, but that person would probably consider any non-Southern American accent "Yankee."

I would say the fascination with being "Northern," along with a desire to make the Upper Midwest this entirely different entity from the rest of the Midwest, borders on the obsessive (or at least it does for one particular poster).
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Old 07-26-2016, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
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How timely: An earful of that unmistakable Philly accent - Videos - CBS News
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Old 07-26-2016, 10:37 AM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,311,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
He is a linguist to the extent that he's read articles that you, I or anyone else could read by going on the internet.

The accent argument is stupid because neither city has that distinctive an accent. And this argument that people are going to think "Northern" when they hear someone from Michigan is silly. That might be the case for someone from the deepest of the Deep South, but that person would probably consider any non-Southern American accent "Yankee."

I would say the fascination with being "Northern," along with a desire to make the Upper Midwest this entirely different entity from the rest of the Midwest, borders on the obsessive (or at least it does for one particular poster).
Yes... this Accent argument has gone on waaay too far. When anyone argues/discusses.... what makes a city more FULLY linked as a AMERICAN and far less European in layout, design and especially Architecture? They are not thinking on accent or connections to other regions.

I gave my reasons Chicago works for the title. I am not alone. Hopefully others have reasons to add to the thread on..... anything other the accents and Linquist points on regional accents and connections. That's for another thread to start.
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:12 AM
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Location: Western Massachusetts
45,740 posts, read 39,635,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
No it sounds like it fits into the Great Lakes which includes part of the Northeast. In fact a good chunk of it. The true Midwest accent is Midland which is what is spoken in the majority of Illinois, Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Indiana, and Ohio.

On the other hand, Great Lakes English is spoken in the whole of ONE state in the Midwest and that is Michigan. All other Midwest states that feature it have it in one small corner of their state. It is spoken in a small portion of Illinois, one city in Missouri, a tiny corner of Indiana, a small sliver of Eastern Wisconsin, and the Lake Erie area of Ohio. It is also spoken in a lot of New York State, Northern Pennsylvania except Erie, and reaches far into the limits of New England. Nice try though.
As Bajan said, the Great Lakes Region contains the majority of Midwesterners or close to it. This author estimates 42%, but includes NY and PA. Subtracting those gets you 41%. There's no reason why the Midland is more true to the Midwest than the Great Lakes, other than arbitrary preference:

The Corner Side Yard: Repost: The Five Midwests, Part II
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nephi215 View Post
"Oil" as "awl" and talk as "taw-uhk" "fire" as "farr".
Wtf. No one talks like that. Here are actual Philly accent speakers saying words like "oil" and "talk"



You are not a linguist and you know nothing about the Philly accent. Also if you ask anyone not familiar with the deeper stratification of accents (the average ears) they will say the Philly person sounds like he is from the "Northeast" or east coast (which people are pertaining to the coastal northeast when they that) and for Chicago they will draw blank or say "Midwest". I won't even address the rest of your nonsense.
Did you even watch your own video. Chris Matthews says "awll" for oil.
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:44 AM
 
Location: NC/IL/MI
3,625 posts, read 6,946,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Where is the Mayberry in Chicago????
I wish chicago was more like Mayberry
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