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Old 05-28-2015, 10:13 PM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,316,760 times
Reputation: 1483

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut View Post
That's simply how Center City is defined. Spring Garden to South Street, River to River. I simply added University City as a part of Philadelphia's "Downtown" as well.
Fitler Square - yes there are rowhome sections but also downtown like highrise sections. This is the northern part of Fitler Square. Downtown? No?
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ph...!6m1!1e1?hl=en
Washington Square - this isn't Downtown? The majority of the neighborhood is very Downtown like.
This is Washington Square:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ph...!6m1!1e1?hl=en
As is this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9491...!6m1!1e1?hl=en
And this:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ph...!6m1!1e1?hl=en
And this:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ph...!6m1!1e1?hl=en
And this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9487...!6m1!1e1?hl=en
And this:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ph...!6m1!1e1?hl=en
Society Hill - mostly historically certified buildings which cannot be demolished and were built long before the highrise was even invented. A lot of Philadelphia's top historical sites are within this neighborhood.
This isn't downtown? This is Society Hill:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ph...!6m1!1e1?hl=en
And this:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ph...!6m1!1e1?hl=en
And this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9421...!6m1!1e1?hl=en
And this?:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9416...!6m1!1e1?hl=en
Callowhill - You wouldn't consider as a part of Downtown? It's definitely just an underdeveloped section of Downtown. Being industrial once upon a time does not automatically exclude it from the Downtown definition. A lot of the old industrial and manufacturing buildings have been or are being converted to residential and modern business and tech uses. A lot of new construction in the pipes for this section of the city as well. So, very underdeveloped part of Downtown? Yes, I agree. Not a part of Downtown at all? Disagree.
This isn't downtown?
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ph...!6m1!1e1?hl=en
Nor this?
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9588...!6m1!1e1?hl=en
And this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9603...!6m1!1e1?hl=en
And this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9591...!6m1!1e1?hl=en
And this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9586...!6m1!1e1?hl=en

All in all, there are different sections of each Center City neighborhood, but how could one divide one half of the neighborhood and say "Yes this is downtown, but that part of the neighborhood isn't."?
Well ALL of my post of within DOWNTOWN Philly. Were by Goggles boundaries within I clicked on for examples.

You take the continuous parts that in each era are worthy. That is why few decades ago Near North that includes North Michigan Ave. Was added to Downtown. The newer high-end Shopping street developed and major Hotels were built there. River North was the more recent addition.

Before it was abandoned warehouses and more lost vitality then anything else. What happened is it filled with Lofts in the old industrial buildings. Then new High-Rises too and some high-end Townhouse developments that look like Boston. It THEN was added. But for the US census of 2-miles from City Hall. It is included anyway.

This is Google 360°streetviews I chose Streets WITHIN THE BOUNDRIES

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ce...36e1d13cf7c05b

CHECK OUR WHERE WASHINGTON SQUARE IS WHERE SOCIETY HILL IS . IT IS CENTER CITY. THAT IS ALL CONCIDERED DOWNTOWN. ⤵

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ce...36e1d13cf7c05b

DO YOU KNOW YOUR CITY?????

Society Hill is NORTH OF SOUTH STREET the southern boundary of DOWNTOWN CENTER CITY PHILLY

Last edited by steeps; 05-28-2015 at 10:34 PM..
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Old 05-28-2015, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,702 posts, read 11,364,462 times
Reputation: 3539
Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
Ok HERE WE GO AGAIN......

San Francisco ROWS are NOTHING LIKE PHILLY'S This Goggle 360°streetview are APARTMENT BUILDINGS NOT HOMES.

Thanks for not refuting that Chicago's Gold Coast is worthy of being officially Downtown.
I did NOT SAY ANYTHING AGAINST ROW HOMES. You have to ADMIT. The 360°streetviews I used. ARE VERY PLEASANT. YES ?

ALL.... find these Colonial and similar to them l Row communities of Center City Philly, I POSTED VERY PLEASANT. Others another story sorry. They are examples that show a LOT of GREEN and TREES. That add to its pleasant quaint feel.

But not every Philly resident in block after block of plain tight Rows on alleyway streets are with trees as this. Many were not built even with them seen as worthy the masses. Build the cheapest housing possible was for them.

I do believe the City ALLOWED William Penn's original "Green City Plan". TO BE PERVERTED with SUBDIVIDING blocks even smaller.
William Penn
His ORIGINAL PLAN SAID....
Each quadrant WAS TO HAVE A public square with open green space, today known as Logan, Franklin, Washington, and Rittenhouse Squares. Evenly spaced lots allowed residents to have private outdoor space for gardens and retain a sense of country living within the city. Penn’s was a example, for planning in many early American cities. THE COLONIAL BLOCKS HAD THIS.

By the Mid-1800s to early 1900s Row Houses | Encyclopedia of Greater Philadelphia

As ambitious colonists began to break up the big city blocks of William Penn’s “greene country towne” with secondary streets, alleys, and courts, speculative developers and builders constructed rows of houses that matched varied budgets and taste.

The trend of speculative building meant street-front land was obtainable by builders or investors at an easier rate compared to other major cities. As a result, Philadelphia’s streets, alleys, and courts were lined with relatively homogenous structures of predictable form and design.

That is why THIS BECAME a average Block in PHILLY "FOR THE MASSES". LATE 1800s or early 1900s
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9879...XBi8D3B6MQ!2e0

While this became a average block in Chicago LATE 1800s "FOR THE AVERAGE MASSES" when new.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9013...al53gf_nEA!2e0

REDFIN real estate ...shows the 2nd Tan house on right in West Town Neighborhood. WAS BUILT IN 1889. It is currently for sale for $749,000. In a Gentrified area. THE STANDARD CHICAGO LOT, 25' X 125'. Notice the FRONTAGE. . https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/21.../home/14106255

By 1910 Chicago's Bungalow Belt began.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9065...QLJbl191tw!2e0

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/14.../home/13282086 BUILT 1915 Craftsman Bungalows for the masses

PHILLY WAS STILL DOING THOSE TIGHT ROWS THEN FOR MASSES. Some The higher Middle-class got some frontage and more decorative varieties.

I AGREE with this poster from another thread Is Philly more urban than Chicago?

I posted though here to reply to what OTHERS BROUGHT IN about PHILLY'S CLAIM of WHAT IT'S DOWNTOWN AREA IS? Some want to stretch it further. Some want University City added ALREADY.

If YOU wish to say my 360°s used are INACCURATE? For different neighborhoods that ARE CONSIDERED PHILLY'S DOWNTOWN. Surely say so.

I merely wish to make a further comparison to add to what others said. With... AGAIN, CHICAGO'S Downtown had NO WHOLE Neighborhoods, that are merely single family homes? It does have new High-End Townhouses in River North yes. And as "Marothisu" commented. Yes a few areas there.

My MAIN POINT IN THIS THREAD is TIME CHICAGO ADDS ITS "Gold Coast" officially as DOWNTOWN. Yes it is ALL RESIDENTIAL. BUT TOTALLY WORTHY TO BE PART.
Absolutely Downtown Chicago includes the Gold Coast. I would list the neighborhoods of Downtown Chicago as such:

Downtown Chicago
The Loop
New East Side
Magnificent Mile
Streeterville
River North
Gold Coast
West Loop
Fulton River District
Grant Park
Near South Side
South Loop


For Downtown Philadelphia, I would include Center City and University City.

Downtown Philadelphia
Penn Center
Rittenhouse Square
Logan Square
Fitler Square
Washington Square West
Market East
Chinatown
Old City
Society Hill
Museum District/Franklintown
Penn's Landing
The Loft District
Callowhill
University City
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Old 05-28-2015, 10:45 PM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,316,760 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut View Post
Absolutely Downtown Chicago includes the Gold Coast. I would list the neighborhoods of Downtown Chicago as such:

Downtown Chicago
The Loop
New East Side
Magnificent Mile
Streeterville
River North
Gold Coast NOT IN DOWNTOWN BUT FOR BIT OF SOUTHERN PORTION
West Loop
Fulton River NOT ALL DOWNTOWN BUT FOR THE SOUTHERN HALF SECTION
Grant Park
Near South Side NOT IN DOWNTOWN AT ALL YET
South Loop

For Downtown Philadelphia, I would include Center City and University City.

Downtown Philadelphia
Penn Center
Rittenhouse Square
Logan Square
Fitler Square
Washington Square West
Market East
Chinatown
Old City
Society Hill
Museum District/Franklintown
Penn's Landing
The Loft District
Callowhill
University City. NOT OFFICAL CENTER CITY DOWNTOWN AT ALL YET
This is the OFFICIAL CITY OF CHICAGO CITY BOUNDARY. It as YET does not include the "Gold Coast" "Near South"

This OFFICIAL BOUNDARY.
City of Chicago :: Boundaries - Central Business District

THE GOLD COAST IS MOSTLY NOT INCLUDED NOR THE NEW SKYSCRAPER CONDO'S BY Soldier Field WORTHY FOR SURE. Or the Townhouses south of the Loop.

Fulton River District is EAST OF THE CHICAGO RIVER. Not official downtown ALL OF IT Southern HALF part YES IT IS WEST OF RIVER NORTH NOT THE LOOP.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fu...acd1552d2b5eb9

For the GOLD COAST Office downtown goes only to division.... and check Google map for Gold Coast FULL BOUNDARY ONLY THE SOURTHERN FEW BLOCKS ARE WHERE NORTH ST BEACH ENDS.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Go...968dd5839ffe4f

As for the NEAR SOUTH... Downtown on the South ends at ROOSEVELT RD. NEAR SOUTH BEGINS THERE .....NONE IN DOWNTOWN YET
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ne...2d24af7b319816

SO PLEASE SPARE ME

BUT NEAR SOUTH AND ALL ..... THE GOLD COAST SHOULD BE AND EVENTUALLY YES FULTON RIVER DISTRICT

You can include University Park all you want The City of Philadelphia has not yet. Nor the US census of 2-mile square from city hall.

Last edited by steeps; 05-28-2015 at 11:15 PM..
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Old 05-28-2015, 11:21 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,702 posts, read 11,364,462 times
Reputation: 3539
I can't tell if you're angry with me or not lol. I don't care what the City of Philadelphia considers as a part of Downtown. Most residents are including University City as a part of the Downtown now, and I think it should be.

This looks like a part of Downtown to me:





https://www.facebook.com/universitycity

Last edited by RightonWalnut; 05-28-2015 at 11:30 PM..
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Old 05-28-2015, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
2,390 posts, read 1,226,067 times
Reputation: 2512
Quote:
Originally Posted by MynameisSam View Post
There really isn't much difference to me in terms of amenities between the Philadelphia and Chicago. Chicago, being the larger city, just has more of them. They both are definitely in the tier below NYC though.

Philadelphia is grittier, but I would probably say Philadelphia has more character to it because its over 100 years older than Chicago and was settled before the automobile. Philadelphia has a very historic and colonial feel that is only matched by Boston. There are no Old City or Society Hill neighborhoods in Chicago. Old Town is the closest, and its largely underwhelming.

It really comes down to preference of being in Northeast vs. Midwest. Thats all. Philadelphia is inherently Northeast/East Coast and Chicago is inherently Midwest.

Suburban Philadelphia id probably rank ahead of Chicago on scenic beauty, green, parks, and historic charm especially.
This is a good analysis. One thing I've always loved about Philly is that even though it's gentrified a lot over the years, it still maintains that historic colonial, urban charm.
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Old 05-29-2015, 02:05 AM
 
400 posts, read 347,574 times
Reputation: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut View Post
I can't tell if you're angry with me or not lol. I don't care what the City of Philadelphia considers as a part of Downtown. Most residents are including University City as a part of the Downtown now, and I think it should be.

This looks like a part of Downtown to me:





https://www.facebook.com/universitycity
University City is pretty much a gentrified portion of West Philly. It's still technically West Philly but not really. It's still sketchy in certain areas.
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Old 05-29-2015, 04:09 AM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,316,760 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
This is a good analysis. One thing I've always loved about Philly is that even though it's gentrified a lot over the years, it still maintains that historic colonial, urban charm.
Yes those TRUE Colonial neighborhoods do and those parts of Center City that have gentrified. But Philly is a LOT Larger then that and away from Center City especially it is NOT COLONIAL.

City planners left William Penn's Green Utopia city of regular Town Squares with every home having his green space for a garden as they began to break up the big city blocks of William Penn’s “greene country towne” with secondary streets, alleys, and courts,

Penn's original plan had
Each quadrant WAS TO HAVE A public square with open green space, today known as Logan, Franklin, Washington, and Rittenhouse Squares. Evenly spaced lots allowed residents to have private outdoor space for gardens and retain a sense of country living within the city

This resulted in the TRUE COLONIAL NEIGHBORHOODS ALL CAN LOVE. FULL OF GREEN TODAY.

But as developers split the street grid. Made alleyways for actual additional housing. The city became the MANY ,MANY, BLOCKS OF PLAIN ROWS GREEN SPACE FOR ALL WAS NOT THE NORM FOR THE MASSES.

The trend of speculative building meant street-front land was obtainable by builders or investors at an easier rate compared to other major cities. As a result, Philadelphia’s streets, alleys, and courts were lined with relatively homogenous structures of predictable form and design.
Row Houses | Encyclopedia of Greater Philadelphia

What Chicago did, as you should know. Chicago after the Great Fire. Took PHILLY'S MORE ORIGINAL STREET PLAN. WIDENED IT, KEPT A FULL ALLEYWAY SYSTEM THROUGHOUT, AND ALL HAD SOME FRONTAGE and some degree of yard. What also is nice is the POWER LINES AND POLES COULD BE IN THE ALLEYWAYS. NOT FRONTS OF HOMES.

The planners then NEVER Continued the grid and Alleys. Not allowing splitting and sub-dividing smaller streets for profit and making cheaper housing. As you know whether Greystone, Victorian, Cottage homes, 2-3 flats, to its Bungalow Belt. It was maintained. The Craftsman Bungalow Belt 1910-1940. Had all with FRONT LAWNS AND YARDS and most built or added garages later.

So besides one city is older a earlier start and one had a second chance to re-build. The results show today.

AGAIN compare the result of THE SUB-DIVIDED STREETS. FOR THE MASSES AFTER THE COLONIAL PERIOD.
In South Philly

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9327...PLYnM0AtoA!2e0

In North Philly

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9879...XBi8D3B6MQ!2e0

Chicago

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9013...JXi_8uL3EA!2e0
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Old 05-29-2015, 09:34 AM
 
8,226 posts, read 4,422,019 times
Reputation: 2723
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut View Post


Callowhill - You wouldn't consider as a part of Downtown? It's definitely just an underdeveloped section of Downtown. Being industrial once upon a time does not automatically exclude it from the Downtown definition. A lot of the old industrial and manufacturing buildings have been or are being converted to residential and modern business and tech uses. A lot of new construction in the pipes for this section of the city as well. So, very underdeveloped part of Downtown? Yes, I agree. Not a part of Downtown at all? Disagree.

This isn't downtown?
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ph...!6m1!1e1?hl=en

Nor this?
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9588...!6m1!1e1?hl=en

And this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9603...!6m1!1e1?hl=en

And this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9591...!6m1!1e1?hl=en

And this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9586...!6m1!1e1?hl=en


All in all, there are different sections of each Center City neighborhood, but how could one divide one half of the neighborhood and say "Yes this is downtown, but that part of the neighborhood isn't."?
Once the Reading Viaduct project gets off the ground(I think it will), Callowhill will change dramatically. Any discussion of Callowhill should include it in, IMO.
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Old 05-29-2015, 09:39 AM
 
8,226 posts, read 4,422,019 times
Reputation: 2723
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut View Post
I can't tell if you're angry with me or not lol. I don't care what the City of Philadelphia considers as a part of Downtown. Most residents are including University City as a part of the Downtown now, and I think it should be.

This looks like a part of Downtown to me:





https://www.facebook.com/universitycity
It would be even more obvious if you had more recent photos of UC including the new high rises and all the HUP and CHOP construction.
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Old 05-29-2015, 09:42 AM
 
8,226 posts, read 4,422,019 times
Reputation: 2723
Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
This is a good analysis. One thing I've always loved about Philly is that even though it's gentrified a lot over the years, it still maintains that historic colonial, urban charm.
A major reason for that is Philadelphia has never had a major physical catastrophe happen to it the way Chicago did.
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