Chicago CSA vs San Francisco CSA (living, state, better, rates)

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by dalparadise

Tech" now drives and defines how media, service industry, retail, entertainment, financial, management, government, manufacturing and many more businesses operate, innovate and grow. Everything from the most simple one-on-one business model like a taxi service, to huge corporate industrial endeavors like auto manufacturing has been dominated and revolutionized by technology developed in the Bay Area over the past decade or so.

Hence, the Bay Area is taking over the world one industry at a time.

The people in this thread are somewhat slow to remember just how much "tech" touches their lives.

[jessemh431]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Hence, the Bay Area is taking over the world one industry at a time.

The people in this thread are somewhat slow to remember just how much "tech" touches their lives.

Wow. You really do think SF is the greatest place on Earth. Talk about delusional. Wow.

[dalparadise]

Originally Posted by jessemh431

Tech has definitely permeated into many other industries now, but it can't last forever. The industry is growing rapidly, which is great, but when stock markets soar, you can expect a crash some day. Tech in the Bay today has diversified itself, but so much of the Bay is reliant on tech that it possibly could be a near disaster. All the venture capital and financial markets in the Bay are heavily reliant on tech. The property values have skyrocketed thanks to tech. Public transit is trying to get better, though it's happening slowly. But if it continues to expand and then one day a lot of people are out of jobs, the cost to run a large transit system with low ridership is devastating.

So no, I don't expect anything horrific to happen soon, but one day when tech just as little as levels off in growth and stagnates, there will be consequences to relying so heavily on it. An industry can't grow exponentially forever and ever and ever. Even then, it won't be Detroit. But it will be bad.

You missed my point. There's no such thing as "Tech" anymore. It's just "business" now.

The largest company in San Francisco is a customer relationship management company. That's a very basic business operational function. They grew because they figured out how to capitalize on cloud computing. Their service is actually based in a model that is hundreds of years old. It is enabled and enhanced by "Tech" but is not part of the "Tech" industry.

[anonelitist]

SF is far more reliant on tech than most cities are reliant on any particular industry, notwithstanding, I think Houston is more reliant on energy and New York *possibly* more reliant on finance, though that may not be true anymore. Miami is more reliant on real estate/foreign capital. Biotech as a sector is not as large as general technology, so I can't say Boston is more reliant on that sector.

But if we want to talk diversified economies, the Bay Area economy and that of San Francisco in particular (versus a San Jose, which IS a one trick pony) is so large that even though it's so focused on tech, it is a world leader in other sectors, as well.

Not even diving into how tech is itself rapidly diversifying (you have chip manufacturers down in the Valley, you have social media, you have hardware firms, software firms, companies like Uber and websites like Yelp, you have Pandora, you have Cisco, etc etc). The way tech is financed is quite different from before, as well. Not to mention larger firms like Google, Apple, and Facebook are essentially conglomerates at this point, with real estate, finance, research, manufacturing, and other arms of their business. Google manufactures cars now. I mean seriously, they are one of about a dozen "tech" firms that really do it all.


But beside all that, the Bay Area is:

the #2 or #3 financial center in this country and one of the largest in the world, particularly focused in San Francisco itself

the #2 biotech center in the world after Boston and it's pretty close (biotech is not tied to tech and goes through its own cycles); pretty large healthcare center as well with Kaiser HQ'd there and UCSF amongst others

a large energy center with large energy companies taking lots of space; ranging from O&G like Chevron to NRG literally just inking a 52K sf lease in the financial district to PG&E's HQ to a global leader in cleantech/greentech (which is an industry-wide partnership between tech/energy/biotech/manufacturing)

One of the largest ports in the US, for both containers and oil distribution (Richmond/Martinez is one of the country's hotspots for refineries, see energy above)

Definitely a top 3-5 American city for corporations/brands (too many brands to list, including several big ones in retail and HH products, and a large focus on foods)

Anchors one of the largest agricultural regions in the world, which is huge...the Bay Area is literally surrounded on all sides by many many hundreds of square miles of straight ag land, and wine is only a small part of it

Eds/Meds/Feds - 3 of the country's top research universities amongst others (including some of the country's top arts schools), major government center being the anchor of a large population center (this includes one of the top feds and the Ninth Circuit, in a show of political/financial power), and obviously big hospitals/research hospitals like UCSF, CPMC, Stanford, and Kaiser

Even entertainment! - Pixar, Lucasfilm, Dreamworks Animation, etc


I think there's so much focus on tech that people fail to realize that yes, a bust in tech devastates the region for a few years and the country, as well, but the Bay Area is a national/world leader across a variety of industries. There's no other way it pushes sooooo far above its weight.

Most cities in this country would enjoy having as much of all of these industries as the Bay Area enjoys.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by jessemh431

Wow. You really do think SF is the greatest place on Earth.

Who the hell cares about being "great"-pfft.

Talk about delusional. Wow.

Trust me, rightbackatchya

An industry can't grow exponentially forever and ever and ever. Even then, it won't be Detroit. But it will be bad.

You still dont get what dalparadise said.

Its not tech as in computers and software, its about tech integration into other industries. The diversification of Google and Apple alone is breathtaking.

[Lets Eat Candy]

I think the problem the Bay Area has is that since it's so tech oriented - this requires a high degree of specialization that the population at large would not be able to enjoy from an employment standard. There's a reason why SFBA has such a high concentration of those with college degrees (which really are a bare minimum anywhere nowadays, but that's another story) and postgraduate degrees - the tech economy requires this kind of extreme specialization.

However, unlike LA or CHI or even NYC to a smaller extent, this has meant a neglect in more blue collar industries which are more available to not-so-wanting-to-go-to-college-crowd (and unlike elitists who believe otherwise, there is still a place in society for these people). The most blue collar area of the Bay is the East Bay, and even that's starting to lose its muster.

Now, if tech started to have more factory-type jobs available to those who do not have a degree, then it would be a great thing. We can start bringing manufacturing back to America, instead of having cheaply made Chinese cr*p.

I remember a few years ago that Tesla or someone was going to buy the NUMNI plant in Fremont, but whatever came of that? I know of a company opening a factory in Southern Orange County (I forget which one off the top of my head).

[jessemh431]

I remember reading something about Tesla in Reno?

Honestly, if Bay Area companies had a large push to bring back jobs to American soil, I would support the Bay Area to no end. But there's not. They continue to use slave labor. I know many industries do that so I'm not gonna hold it against them. But with how the Bay says they care about child labor and slave labor and sweatshops, they really are totally fine buying everything from China. They've given in to corporate America and are all about the most bang for their buck, even if it means having children in sweatshops in 3rd world countries build them. Meanwhile, they drink fair trade coffee and locally grown foods.

So, yes, if the Bay could support its own tech industry in the US, that would be huge. Build iPhones and computers in your own backyard. If that happened, that would be such a self-sustaining industry with the HQ right next to production lines. I would be delusional to not support such an industry.

And I get tech isn't just building computers and stuff anymore. But software development is used on those platforms. A lot of the technology being invented is for use on software and phones and computers. That's still "technology." But apps such as Lyft and Uber are being fought daily in courts. Recently there's talk of younger generations not being into Facebook. Who would've thought MySpace would be a gravesite of scene kids at this point? I don't feel like listing them all, but it is possible that the whole technology world will reach a plateau and that will hurt the economy. Venture capital requires innovation and such. What if that runs out one day?

[ParaguaneroSwag]

I'd say San Fran

[dalparadise]

Originally Posted by Lets Eat Candy

I think the problem the Bay Area has is that since it's so tech oriented - this requires a high degree of specialization that the population at large would not be able to enjoy from an employment standard. There's a reason why SFBA has such a high concentration of those with college degrees (which really are a bare minimum anywhere nowadays, but that's another story) and postgraduate degrees - the tech economy requires this kind of extreme specialization.

However, unlike LA or CHI or even NYC to a smaller extent, this has meant a neglect in more blue collar industries which are more available to not-so-wanting-to-go-to-college-crowd (and unlike elitists who believe otherwise, there is still a place in society for these people). The most blue collar area of the Bay is the East Bay, and even that's starting to lose its muster.

Now, if tech started to have more factory-type jobs available to those who do not have a degree, then it would be a great thing. We can start bringing manufacturing back to America, instead of having cheaply made Chinese cr*p.

I remember a few years ago that Tesla or someone was going to buy the NUMNI plant in Fremont, but whatever came of that? I know of a company opening a factory in Southern Orange County (I forget which one off the top of my head).

Good points that further my assertion that "Tech" as the defining entity is waning in the Bay Area, becoming simply "business".

Take Uber, for instance. Regardless of where you stand on their massive valuation and their politics, they are, by Jesse's definition, a Tech company (and rightly so). The fact that they do t consider their drivers to be "employees" does not diminish the fact that they provide jobs for thousands of blue-collar/non college-educated workers.

Their business model dates back to horse and buggy days. Tech merely revolutionized it. They may be susceptible to regulations or political climates now, but a downturn in the Tech industry will not effect them. And as for the regulations designed to cripple them stepping in, I think Google's driverless cars (perhaps Teslas by then) are waiting to automate their model, if necessary.

PS- Tesla is building a battery plant in Reno and cars in Fremont. And Apple is building a factory to produce MacBooks in Texas...likely with a fair trade coffee bar onsite.

[cheese plate]

These Cali transplants are hilarious!

It isn't your homeland; you do not need to endlessly justify your decision to move in front of total strangers.