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Yes because apparently some users here feel the need to attack other users with baseless debates and stir up arguments due to inaccurate statements and stereotypes. Example; Saying that Orlando is only "Disney World", Saying that Miami is only "South Beach", Saying that DC is "part of NYC", etc...
When you have a poster that spouts International tourist numbers as the sole definition of what city has more international recognition then they will get called on it.
A city that has the highest percentage of foreign born residents from countries that are a stones throw away across the Caribbean and he disregards that a significant number of those passengers are VFR needs to take off the rose colored glasses. He instead says prove it.
It doesn't need to be proven, it's a fact that a city with so many immigrants from countries in the same sphere will have a sizable number of VFR (passengers visiting friends and relatives).
Now I'm not saying Miami would lose over half it's numbers if VFR was removed, but it is very substantial.
VFR passengers don't travel to countries for the same reasons as traditional tourists. But they are added in the count never the less as they should, but to boast that because those numbers of total passengers traveling through Miami's customs somehow equates to the demand tourists have of wanting to visit Miami and therefore makes the city have a higher international recognition is Ludacris.
Though he is the biggest Miami booster on this board I shouldn't be surprised.
isnt it basically economically unfeasible for a Japan to MIA flight
Asia is basically out for MIA for the most part due to length of flight
based on my experience there are a lot more Asian traveling to SF and a lot more Europeans and S Americans in Miami - always seems that way to me - did notice quite a few more Japaneese than I remebered in Miami two weeks ago, asians are small there but Europeans felt much larger
both are well traveled to, if anything MIA feels like the more international airport to me actually, albeit many probably heading to S Beach
It's economically feasible because the amount of traffic projected doesn't justify the distance, but there are other far flung locations (from Tokyo) where the traffic does justify flying such a long route. If you look at Narita and Haneda's routes, you get Toronto, London, NYC, Atlanta, Mexico City, etc. which aren't really that much greater distances from Tokyo. However, there's simply not enough traffic or enough of an airport hub at Miami for this to be justified. However, this could change and I believe Miami International Airport has been actively trying to court airlines for an East Asia route with the idea of "if you build it, they will come".
You can't compare South America to Asia. Asia is WAY more prominent in world affairs than South America could ever dream of. With the exception of Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires most other cities in South America are nearly irrelevant in the global economy. So enjoy your flights to Latin America cities that barely nobody outside the region knows or even cares about.
For reference there are six Asian cities that are Alpha+ (all served from SFO), In Europe only London ranks higher Alpha++ and Paris is the only other European city that ranks Alpha+ this according to the GaWC. How pathetic that only one Latin American city is Alpha (Sao Paulo) and another (Buenos Aires) is Alpha-.That's only two Alpha cities in the entire SA and CA region. As for Beta cities, One Beta+ (Santiago) and one Beta (Rio De Janeiro). After that it's not worth discussing. So your air service to many third world cities in the Caribbean, Central and South America that few outside the region know about somehow trumps trans-Pacific flights to the most relevant cities on Earth for global recognition?? LMAO!!
As for Europe, your city is much closer so it's logistically more feasible for air service from Europe than a city on the opposite coast that's a much longer flight and more expensive for a carrier to operate for logistic reasons, BUT at least we have adequate European service. It's just over 11 hours from SFO to London which is the closest European destination at 5,367 miles compared to Miami which is 4,160 and we have direct service to nine European cities. How many cities in Asia are served from Miami? Oh that's right Doha, which is far less of importance than Dubai. Emirates which is hub to an Alpha+ city (Dubai) chose Orlando over Miami so how is that for global recognition/importance? LOL!! If you look at the overall picture of global relevance that should include the entire globe San Francisco is more internationally relevant and connected. Ask any Asian overseas about Miami and all they will reference is the NBA team The Heat and that's if they are into basketball. Show them a picture of Miami Beach and they will assume it's Hawaii.
The continent of Asia has roughly 60% of the entire worlds population, the highest number of Alpha cities and an economy that's growing faster than any region on Earth. So until you get a few Asian cities on your resume this discussion is useless.
For a opposite coast city (San Francisco) that's at minimum 11 hours flight time from a continent to get nonstop foreign airline service from:
London (British, Virgin Atlantic)
Paris (Air France)
Dublin (Aer Lingus)
Frankfurt, Munich (Lufthansa)
Amsterdam (KLM)
Zurich (Swiss)
Istanbul (Turkish)
Copenhagen (SAS)
Is very good
Opposite coast service to Miami from the Far East:
Zero, Zip, Nada
Yawn. San Francisco is the secondary hub to Asia, and only East Asia. Population is irrelevant if they aren't flying to San Francisco and Miami's international traffic has been leaving SF in the dust. You can value China service more than SA service but the fact remains Miami is much more connected to SA and Europe than San Francisco is to Asia and its shows in traffic numbers and tourism. The reason Miami hasn't received Asia service yet is due to aircraft limitations (particularly Hong Kong (16 hours) has very high fares) yet SF cannot manage a 9 hour flight to South America. Just because San Francisco is more isolated and has longer flight times to anywhere due the Pacific does not make its service more impressive, if that were the case Dallas would be the most global city in the US. End of the day Miami is a much bigger gateway than San Francisco ever will be. Also international service doesn't mean they are actually visiting the city…. Bay Area (3 million) South Florida (5.7 million). Miami will be getting service to Africa and Asia soon, has recently got Doha and Istanbul. Doha is already daily after one year. Emirates will be here soon also but SF will not be getting any service to SA soon if it cannot manage Lima.
Yes because apparently some users here feel the need to attack other users with baseless debates and stir up arguments due to inaccurate statements and stereotypes. Example; Saying that Orlando is only "Disney World", Saying that Miami is only "South Beach", Saying that DC is "part of NYC", etc...
He does this in every thread when he's getting proven wrong so he just does a low blow to throw you off topic. Nothing new...... lol
Too bad those monuments don't bring up your tourist numbers. Seems like no one cares. I doubt anyone outside of the USA knows about the
Washington Monument and Lincoln Memorial. And I'm sure they confuse the white house with the capitol building all the time.
Lol, they are a highlight of any trip to DC. Was there a few weeks back myself. Will be back in September with my 3 pre-teen kids who are all looking forward to visiting these things they have heard so much about and seen so many times even all the way over here in Australia.
Lol, they are a highlight of any trip to DC. Was there a few weeks back myself. Will be back in September with my 3 pre-teen kids who are all looking forward to visiting these things they have heard so much about and seen so many times even all the way over here in Australia.
Yawn. San Francisco is the secondary hub to Asia, and only East Asia. Population is irrelevant if they aren't flying to San Francisco and Miami's international traffic has been leaving SF in the dust. You can value China service more than SA service but the fact remains Miami is much more connected to SA and Europe than San Francisco is to Asia and its shows in traffic numbers and tourism. The reason Miami hasn't received Asia service yet is due to aircraft limitations (particularly Hong Kong (16 hours) has very high fares) yet SF cannot manage a 9 hour flight to South America. Just because San Francisco is more isolated and has longer flight times to anywhere due the Pacific does not make its service more impressive, if that were the case Dallas would be the most global city in the US. End of the day Miami is a much bigger gateway than San Francisco ever will be. Also international service doesn't mean they are actually visiting the city…. Bay Area (3 million) South Florida (5.7 million). Miami will be getting service to Africa and Asia soon, has recently got Doha and Istanbul. Doha is already daily after one year. Emirates will be here soon also but SF will not be getting any service to SA soon if it cannot manage Lima.
JAL is a partner with AA and has had a plane in their fleet for a few years now that can make the NRT-MIA trip - the 787. JAL chose to deploy the plane to Boston back in 2012, which makes sense given the fact that the market to Asia from Boston is larger than South Florida to Asia. JAL also chose to send the plane to San Diego as well. So you are incorrect in saying airlines lack the proper aircraft to fly to MIA.
SFO has a solid network to Asia, so calling it a secondary hub is incorrect. United offers non-stop flights to Beijing, Chengdu, Hong Kong, Osaka, Seoul, Shanghai, Taipei, Tokyo - Narita and Tokyo - Haneda. Needless to say, SFO is their primary gateway to Asia. Name a major Asian airline, and they serve SFO.
Yawn. San Francisco is the secondary hub to Asia, and only East Asia. You can value China service more than SA service but the fact remains Miami is much more connected to SA and Europe than San Francisco is to Asia and its shows in traffic numbers and tourism. The reason Miami hasn't received Asia service yet is due to aircraft limitations (particularly Hong Kong (16 hours) has very high fares) yet SF cannot manage a 9 hour flight to South America. Just because San Francisco is more isolated and has longer flight times to anywhere due the Pacific does not make its service more impressive, if that were the case Dallas would be the most global city in the US. End of the day Miami is a much bigger global gateway than San Francisco ever will be. Also international service doesn't mean they are actually visiting the city…. Bay Area (3 million) South Florida (5.7 million).
Get your facts straight, Bay Area is 7.5 million
Dallas is a weak response. The lack of foreign carriers shows.
Since when is it only East Asia? The Bay Area has the largest Indian population on the West Coast and is second only to New York and maybe Chicago. Los Angeles and San Francisco both serve the same amount of cities to East Asia.
As I said your numbers are inflated by being in close proximity to countries that can operate regional jets internationally. That is why there are more destinations served overall from Miami to Latin/South America.
If The flight distances to Latin America from Miami were similar to San Francisco to the Far East you wouldn't see more than just a few locations served tops, and they would be just the major cities. You can't compare the ease of flight logistics from Latin America to Miami in the same sentence as the West Coast to the Far East which requires far more resources to operate. Miami is a gateway to Europe and Latin America. San Francisco is a gateway to Europe, Asia and Oceana. One of those continents having a population that dwarfs Latin America or Europe. Global means more than just Europe and South America.
The numbers are misleading/skewed for Miami IMO when you have many Latin American/Caribbean carriers that don't operate trans-Ocean flights with limited fleet sizes. They have no alternative but to make Miami it's port of entry due to location/lack of widebody fleet.
It cost a lot more for airlines to operate ultra long haul than it does three to four hour flights.
Whatever, I'm done with this thread.
Last edited by Fastphilly; 06-22-2015 at 10:06 PM..
Since when is it only East Asia? The Bay Area has the largest Indian population on the West Coast and is second only to New York and maybe Chicago. Los Angeles and San Francisco both serve the same amount of cities to East Asia.
As I said your numbers are inflated by being in close proximity to countries that can operate regional jets internationally. That is why there are more destinations served overall from Miami to Latin/South America.
If The flight distances to Latin America from Miami were similar to San Francisco to the Far East you wouldn't see more than just a few locations served tops, and they would be just the major cities. You can't compare the ease of flight logistics from Latin America to Miami in the same sentence as the West Coast to the Far East which requires far more resources to operate. Miami is a gateway to Europe and Latin America. San Francisco is a gateway to Europe, Asia and Oceana. One of those continents having a population that dwarfs Latin America or Europe. Global means more than just Europe and South America.
The numbers are misleading/skewed for Miami IMO when you have many Latin American/Caribbean carriers that don't operate trans-Ocean flights with limited fleet sizes. They have no alternative but to make Miami it's port of entry due to location/lack of widebody fleet.
It cost a lot more for airlines to operate ultra long haul than it does three to four hour flights.
Whatever, I'm done with this thread.
How would you explain Miami's European numbers though? How does Miami get so many European flights? There are other cities on the Eastcoast that don't get nearly as many Euro flights as Miami.
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