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View Poll Results: Boston or Chicago
Boston 145 38.56%
Chicago 231 61.44%
Voters: 376. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-14-2009, 10:58 AM
 
5,347 posts, read 10,157,846 times
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Who cares what Dementor thinks? Why is the chicago crowd so confrontational about their city. Get over it. Everybody doesn't see and will never see the city in the exact same way. It's like you guys are waving a flag saying look at us, we are great too. It's becoming pitiful and laughable all at once.
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Old 04-14-2009, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Hell's Kitchen, NYC
2,271 posts, read 5,146,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC's Finest View Post
Who cares what Demen thinks tor? Why is the chicago crowd so confrontational about their city. Get over it. Everybody doesn't see and will never see the city in the exact same way. It's like you guys are waving a flag saying look at us, we are great too. It's becoming pitiful and laughable all at once.
Just about everyone on this forum is confrontational about their city...some cities just have more posters.

Ain't that the truth.

Refer to answer #1.
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Old 04-14-2009, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
5,525 posts, read 13,948,017 times
Reputation: 3908
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC's Finest View Post
Who cares what Dementor thinks? Why is the chicago crowd so confrontational about their city. Get over it. Everybody doesn't see and will never see the city in the exact same way. It's like you guys are waving a flag saying look at us, we are great too. It's becoming pitiful and laughable all at once.
OMG! Don't you realize you're questioning the whole rationale of the city vs. city forum?
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Old 04-14-2009, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Chicago - mudhole in the prairie...
1,624 posts, read 3,290,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukwoo View Post
Yeah, the only reason to get inflammatory is if you want to start a flame war. It lessens your credibility and crowds out reasonable debate. I'm waiting for the post where dementor goes all Godwin on us and compares Chicago to Nazi Germany.
Not nazi Germany but given Chicago the state of Chicago politics Chicago reminds of me of pre-perestroika Russia: the same lack of political transparency, corruption and government arrogance all fueled by complacency of average citizen. Surely there are no gulags but also surely Chicago does not remind me of XXI century democracy. Long live King Daley!
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Old 04-14-2009, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Chicago - mudhole in the prairie...
1,624 posts, read 3,290,755 times
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Default The Decline of Chicago: The City that Doesn't Work

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukwoo View Post
I forgot to mention the obvious "edge" that Chicago has and always had.

Its the premier transportation hub of the country. That's the original rationale for a city on the shores of Lake Michigan with easy access to the Mississippi watershed. Following the canals, the railroads set up shop and never left. Everything else about Chicago's growth, meat processing, diversified manufacturing, and now service, academics, medicine, technology, pharmaceuticals, and finance are the result of that history.
Suckwoo, this was posted in another thread but I think you should read that. This article shows an alarming trend in Chicago life.

The Decline of Chicago: The City that Doesn't Work


by Steve Bartin 06/19/2008



Recently, Crain’s Chicago Business reported on Chicago winning an award from Fast Company magazine. “Chicago stood out in our reporting for its creativity and vitality,†Editor and Managing Director Bob Safian said at a press conference here. “Chicago offers something distinctive.â€
Fast Company Magazine is representative of much of the media: not much on hard facts about Chicago. The Windy City has distinctions but not positive ones. Chicago’s retail sales tax is the highest in the nation at 10.25 percent. Unions, high taxes, and political corruption have made Chicago one of the leaders in big city decline.
One of the great modern myths of big city America is that Chicago is some sort of successful town and a role model for others. By any traditional performance standards Chicago has failed. Like many old, big industrial cities, Chicago peaked in the 1950 Census with a population of 3,620,962. In the 1950s over two percent of the entire U.S. population lived within Chicago city limits. Over a half century later, while America’s population doubled, Chicago’s population declined. The 1960, 1970, 1980, and 1990 Census numbers showed Chicago losing population.
Mayor Daley and Chicago residents were quite excited about the 2000 Census showing Chicago gaining over 112,000 people (a growth rate at half the national average for the 1990s). It appears the 1990s were an anomaly for Chicago. Since the year 2000, according to Census estimates, Chicago again continued its population decline with a loss of 63,000 from 2000 to 2006 leaving a total of 2,833,321.
Recently, the Web site Real Clear Politics listed two Chicago area Congressional districts among the country’s ten fastest-shrinking districts, in terms of percentage of population lost between 2000 and 2005. Jan Schakowsky’s district lost 7.9 percent of its population. Congressman Rahm Emanuel’s district lost 5.1 percent.
Though 2000 was a somewhat positive year, that year’s Census numbers mask some rather disturbing trends. The white flight out of Chicago continued with 150,000 non- Hispanic white people leaving Chicago from 1990 to 2,000. African-Americans, for the first time, began leaving Chicago with a net loss of 5,000. The population gain in Chicago during the 1990s was due to Hispanics.
One of the great fables urban lovers of Chicago like to talk about is some comeback of the city. The comeback, according to this urban legend, involves white families staying in Chicago to raise their children. With Chicago’s 150,000 white population decline from 1990 to 2000: Chicago was only 31.3 percent non-Hispanic white.
What is even more pronounced is the lack of white children in the public school system. The entire Chicago Public School System is only 9 percent white. Not a single public high school has a population that is majority white. Not one.
Recently, the stubborn facts of Chicago’s population decline made news. As CBS TV Chicago reported in January of 2008:
Half-empty schools are ‘unacceptable’ because they don't serve their students or the communities they're supposed to anchor, Mayor Richard M. Daley said Thursday, setting the stage for the biggest wave of school closings in decades.
Officials contend 147 of 417 neighborhood elementary schools are from half to more than two-thirds empty because enrollment has declined by 41,000 students in the last seven years. A tentative CPS plan calls for up to 50 under-used schools to close, consolidate with other schools or phase out over the next five years.
Most of the underused schools are on the South and West Sides, often where the student population is largely African-American, and in lakefront neighborhoods that include Lincoln Park, Lake View, Uptown and North Center.â€
The situation isn’t any better in Chicago’s Catholic School System. The Chicago Tribune reported on February 27, 2007:
Nicholas Wolsonovich, superintendent of schools for the archdiocese, called the exodus from Chicago's Catholic schools ‘mind-boggling.’ In 1964, he said, some 500 schools were spread across the diocese, with about 366,000 students. Now, the system has 257 schools and fewer than 100,000 students. Over the last decade statewide, the number of Catholic schools has dropped from 592 in 1997 to 510 this year, according to figures released at the conference.
Chicago’s political elite love to give speeches about the importance of public education, but not for their children. Mayor Daley sent his children to private schools. Deborah Lynch, the former head of the Chicago Teacher’s Union, sent her kids to private schools. America’s newest political superstar, Barack Obama, sends his kids to private schools. With the exodus of the rich from Chicago’s public schools, 69 percent of the children in the Chicago Public School system are poor.
The horrible public schools, high taxes, and crime have driven families out of Chicago. The city’s job base cannot compete with anti-union places like Houston and Phoenix.
Chicago used to be the number one convention town in America but Las Vegas and Orlando now lead the pack. Chicago has lost its top spot as busiest airport to Atlanta. Chicago's high priced unions and restrictive work rules have driven business elsewhere. For decades, Chicago was a major banking center with two major banking headquarters located on LaSalle Street. Continental Bank and First National Bank of Chicago were always among the top ten largest banks for much of the twentieth century.
No longer. Continental was purchased by Bank of America while First National Bank of Chicago was purchased by JP Morgan. Not a single bank in the top 25 largest banks in America is headquartered in Chicago. While Chicago’s financial district declines Charlotte, North Carolina has emerged as a bigger banking town. Charlotte has the headquarters of two of the four largest banks in America: Wachovia and Bank of America.
Other elements of Chicago’s financial district also show major weaknesses. Chicago doesn’t have one major mutual fund company headquarters. Chicago’s mutual fund job base is smaller than Denver, Indianapolis, or Baltimore. Chicago has a few major hedge funds but nothing like New York City or London. Chicago is the futures capital of America with the merger of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange and the Chicago Board of Trade but even here the news isn’t all positive. Computers have shed tens of thousands of jobs in the futures industry. Futures trading floors are headed for extinction within the next three to seven years, eliminating even more jobs.
Chicago’s high tax life style has driven businesses and jobs to the suburbs. Chicago is one ofthe only towns in America with an employee head tax on employment. Companies with over 50 employees must pay $4 a month per employee to the city. Most of the major corporate headquarters in the Chicago area are located in Chicago’s suburbs. Motorola, Walgreens, All State, Kraft, Anixter, Illinois Tool Works, McDonald’s, Alberta-Culver, and Abbott Labs all have their corporate headquarters outside city limits.
Recently, Chicago got its first Wal-Mart. In most places in America, politicians allow consumers to decide whether a business should fail or succeed. In Chicago, with the power of the unions, Chicago’s city council has made it difficult for Wal-Mart to open up any more stores. Chicago’s poor are relegated to paying higher retail prices and have less access to entry-level jobs. The adjacent suburb of Niles has the unusual distinction of being the only town in America (with less than 45,000 people) with two Wal-Marts. One of the Niles Wal-Marts is located right across the street from Chicago.
The largest employer in the city of Chicago is the Federal government. Followed by the City of Chicago Public School system. Other major employers are the city of Chicago, the Chicago Transit Authority, the Cook County government, and the Chicago Park District. These thousands of government workers provide the backbone of the coalition for higher taxes, generous pensions and “political stabilityâ€.
Chicago’s political system is inefficient and costly. There are no term limits in Chicago. The Democratic Party has controlled the Mayor’s office since 1931(a big city record). There’s no opposition: Democrat’s control 49 out of 50 seats on the city council. Corruption is everywhere. Barely a month can go by without a major scandal. The FBI has the largest public corruption squad in the United States located in Chicago . Chicago voters don’t seem to care. Those who care about high taxes, good public schools, and low crime are a small minority in Chicago.
In conclusion, Chicago’s long decline continues. In the coming years, public pension commitments will test even the high tax tolerant Chicago residents. Look for low regulation, low tax Houston to overtake Chicago in population in the next eight to 15 years."

The Decline of Chicago: The City that Doesn't Work | Newgeography.com
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Old 04-14-2009, 11:58 AM
 
5,347 posts, read 10,157,846 times
Reputation: 2446
Sukwoo,

I think the the City vs City forum is an excellent platform. Even though i have been to Chicago many times and think it is one of the world's greatest cities. I have learned a lot about the city and the people from these forums. My point being is that, so much time and energy is being spent on one or two posters trying to prove to them how great Chicago is when you should not have to do that. We can argue facts and stats all day but this is becoming ridiculous. Every other thread is being hi-jacked. I respect Dementor's opinions (not the outlandish ones) just as I do yours and Steve-o. If someone post something crazy, I may comment but it will not turn into Nuremburg (Nazi Reference).
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:05 PM
 
Location: West Loop Chicago
1,060 posts, read 1,558,376 times
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As I said in the other thread, Chicago voters are idiots. Daley could **** in every Chicago resident's mouth and he'd still get 60% of the vote. Thankfully his son is a screw-up so we we won't get part III. the Stroger election was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. John Stroger is the dem nominee, has a stroke and like a week before the election his son Todd, with name recognition only, is automatically put on the ballot and wins. It reminds me of that movie where Eddie Muphy wins a senate seat b/c his last name is same as the guy who preceded him.

However...if anyone thinks that Boston voters are much smarter, well...this is just the tip of the iceberg of what's going on in Boston. Is Chuck Turner Arrest Sign Of Wider Boston Corruption Probe? - wbztv.com (http://wbztv.com/local/chuck.turner.arrested.2.870449.html - broken link) Seems like taking bribes and tribute payments is pretty standard practice for Boston politicians.
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Chicago - mudhole in the prairie...
1,624 posts, read 3,290,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendu View Post
As I said in the other thread, Chicago voters are idiots. Daley could **** in every Chicago resident's mouth and he'd still get 60% of the vote. Thankfully his son is a screw-up so we we won't get part III. the Stroger election was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. John Stroger is the dem nominee, has a stroke and like a week before the election his son Todd, with name recognition only, is automatically put on the ballot and wins.
Hendu, how many people close to Daley have been indicted?
What about hired truck and mr. Laski? How is it possible that Daley is still in the office depsite all the signs that his administration is corrupt to the bone??? How come there are no term limits?

With all this Chicago resembles Kabul much more than a third largest city the oldest democracy in the world... I find part of the problem in inability of Chicagoans to accept and voice and critique. Everyone would rather pretend everything is peachy than admit there are problems and take action... Even after Blago-gate, and the second governor in a row being prosecuted, I was suprised there was so little action from citizen activism groups, no calls for transparency and oversight. No public outcry.
All Chicagoans did was chuckled, enjoyed media attention and like you, pointed out there is corruption in other places so Chicago is not that bad after all. This complacent, resigned atmosphere is not conducive to any real change.
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Denver
6,625 posts, read 14,456,812 times
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Can we change the title of this thread from "Boston vs Chicago" to "Dementor vs Chicago Forumers" just so people aren't thrown off as to what this thread is actually about?
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:28 PM
 
Location: West Loop Chicago
1,060 posts, read 1,558,376 times
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Ironically, by focusing on Chicago's problems you're ignoring the corruption in NYC, Boston, etc. At least Chicago's problems are being brought to a (very public and embarrassing) head so there's hope for change. Sometimes you need to hit rock bottom before you can fix the problem.
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