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I wonder if "The Wire" is not too far fetched of a speculation of how it is in Baltimore ghetto neighborhoods. I always heard how Baltimore has some really nice parts and some really bad ones.
I agree with most posters, Baltimore had a very bloody July as well. They are on pace to be the murder capital this year. Baltimore, Detroit, and New Orleans to me are three cities with similar population sizes that are very dangerous (of course in select areas, not all over).
St Louis is actually ahead of baltimore at the moment just FYI.
I wonder if "The Wire" is not too far fetched of a speculation of how it is in Baltimore ghetto neighborhoods. I always heard how Baltimore has some really nice parts and some really bad ones.
I agree with most posters, Baltimore had a very bloody July as well. They are on pace to be the murder capital this year. Baltimore, Detroit, and New Orleans to me are three cities with similar population sizes that are very dangerous (of course in select areas, not all over).
New Orleans has a much smaller population than the other 2. Almost half the size.
I am living in fear ? Naww. Of corse not. I love this city because its where I'm growing up I'm pretty young and so I walk alot and go into most neighborhoods. My remark about Clayton and jeffvanderlou was to say. One is in city limits. If someone goes to Clayton it looks nothing like St Louis no one would think its in city limits. And looking at murders for the MSA is just adding population to make the inner city of St Louis better. Am I dodging bullets ? Dodgeing no, hearing ? Yea all the time. I've heard semi's go off before no lie. I've lived in multiple cities and St Louis is vastly different. No one can say St Louis is just as bad as any other city lol. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard by people. Indy isnt all that bad in the inner city btw. And yes there are multiple lines. Crime doesn't stop but it sure gets better when. You cross certain roads.
O really? You don't think there are wealthy neighborhoods in the city that people would confuse as being in Clayton or another wealthy suburb just due to ignorant stereotypes? Up for a little test maybe???
Here's a pic of the land area of the City of Indianapolis in blue superimposed on the St. Louis region – City of St. Louis boundary in red from NextSTL. If you can't get how comparing these two cities based on city limits alone is laughably biased than I'm sorry but there's really no helping you on this issue...
Here's even an old MSA list from 2009 (I'd love to see a more recent one that includes STL's crime spike of the last two years if you have one):
O really? You don't think there are wealthy neighborhoods in the city that people would confuse as being in Clayton or another wealthy suburb just due to ignorant stereotypes? Up for a little test maybe???
Here's a pic of the land area of the City of Indianapolis in blue superimposed on the St. Louis region – City of St. Louis boundary in red from NextSTL. If you can't get how comparing these two cities based on city limits alone is laughably biased than I'm sorry but there's really no helping you on this issue...
Here's even an old MSA list from 2009 (I'd love to see a more recent one that includes STL's crime spike of the last two years if you have one):
1 Pine Bluff, AR 152.78
2 Memphis, TN-MS-AR 119.55
3 Saginaw, MI 86.68
4 Miami-Dade County, FL M.D. 79.24
5 New Orleans, LA 78.94
6 Florence, SC 78.73
7 Las Vegas-Paradise, NV 76.35
8 Albuquerque, NM 75.15
9 Fayetteville, NC 70.03
10 Oakland-Fremont, CA M.D. 67.94
11 Columbus, GA-AL 67.92
12 Little Rock, AR 63.34
13 Jackson, TN 62.16
14 Flint, MI 61.30
15 Stockton, CA 59.13
16 Lawton, OK 57.17
17 Shreveport-Bossier City, LA 57.00
18 Orlando, FL 55.30
19 Jacksonville, FL 54.49
20 Mobile, AL 53.54
21 Birmingham-Hoover, AL 50.97
22 Sumter, SC 49.39
23 Miami (greater), FL 49.08
24 San Francisco (greater), CA 47.56
25 Macon, GA 47.45
26 Tallahassee, FL 47.40
27 Jackson, MS 46.86
28 Hot Springs, AR 46.37
29 Tucson, AZ 45.62
30 Anchorage, AK 44.49
31 Baltimore-Towson, MD 43.68
32 Charlotte-Gastonia, NC-SC 43.38
33 Yakima, WA 42.45
34 Bakersfield, CA 40.53
35 Charleston-North Charleston, SC 40.15
36 Houston, TX 40.06
37 Modesto, CA 39.06
38 Indianapolis, IN 39.01
39 Waco, TX 37.95
40 Longview, TX 37.78
41 Salisbury, MD 37.21
42 Tulsa, OK 37.06
43 Spartanburg, SC 37.01
44 Visalia-Porterville, CA 36.67
45 Philadelphia, PA M.D. 36.65
46 Battle Creek, MI 36.14
47 Laredo, TX 35.87
48 Vallejo-Fairfield, CA 35.67
49 West Palm Beach, FL M.D. 35.51
50 Amarillo, TX 34.32
51 Oklahoma City, OK 33.88
52 San Antonio, TX 33.64
53 Lima, OH 31.96
54 Lubbock, TX 31.54
55 Columbus, OH 30.66
56 Los Angeles County, CA M.D. 30.33
57 Columbia, SC 30.14
58 Lafayette, LA 29.94
59 Texarkana, TX-Texarkana, AR 29.39
60 Panama City-Lynn Haven, FL 29.05
61 Gainesville, FL 28.84
62 Winston-Salem, NC 28.76
63 Corpus Christi, TX 28.20
64 Tuscaloosa, AL 28.15
65 Wichita, KS 27.44
66 Merced, CA 27.20
67 Savannah, GA 26.78
68 Wilmington, DE-MD-NJ M.D. 26.74
69 Nashville-Davidson, TN 25.70
70 Atlanta, GA 25.68
71 Greensboro-High Point, NC 25.35
72 Tampa-St Petersburg, FL 25.22
73 Philadelphia (greater) PA-NJ-MD-DE 24.62
74 Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ 23.89
75 Dover, DE 23.66
76 Goldsboro, NC 23.27
77 Fresno, CA 22.15
78 Durham-Chapel Hill, NC 22.05
79 Santa Fe, NM 21.33
80 Beaumont-Port Arthur, TX 20.15
81 Dallas-Plano-Irving, TX M.D. 19.78
82 Auburn, AL 19.34
83 San Francisco-S. Mateo, CA M.D. 18.82
84 Vineland, NJ 18.78
85 Salinas, CA 18.47
86 Greenville, NC 18.46
87 Fort Lauderdale, FL M.D. 17.86
88 Toledo, OH 17.82
89 Redding, CA 17.79
90 Sacramento, CA 16.57
91 Rapid City, SD 16.40
92 Wichita Falls, TX 15.94
93 South Bend-Mishawaka, IN-MI 15.22
94 Dallas (greater), TX 15.21
95 Lakeland, FL 15.17
96 Washington, DC-VA-MD-WV M.D. 14.63
97 Pensacola, FL 13.71
98 Jonesboro, AR 13.54
99 Ocala, FL 13.43
100 Los Angeles (greater), CA 13.13
101 Montgomery, AL 12.08
102 Palm Bay-Melbourne, FL 11.13
103 St. Louis, MO-IL 11.10
104 Knoxville, TN 10.99
105 San Angelo, TX 10.51
106 Milwaukee, WI 10.28
107 Colorado Springs, CO 10.24
108 College Station-Bryan, TX 9.90
109 Bradenton-Sarasota, FL 9.52
110 Cape Coral-Fort Myers, FL 8.05
Lol again. Indianapolis inner city is nowhere near as bad as St Louis. Forget metros . let's focus on how bad inner city neighborhoods are. Indianapolis is huge. But let's look at every area that's inner city in any city you claim to be biased. Compare it. It won't come close. Instead of tryin to make St Louis be like other city's . make those cities like St Louis. Lol their inner cities would get destroyed.
O really? You don't think there are wealthy neighborhoods in the city that people would confuse as being in Clayton or another wealthy suburb just due to ignorant stereotypes? Up for a little test maybe???
Here's a pic of the land area of the City of Indianapolis in blue superimposed on the St. Louis regother City of St. Louis boundary in red from NextSTL. If you can't get how comparing these two cities based on city limits alone is laughably biased than I'm sorry but there's really no helping you on this issue...
Here's even an old MSA list from 2009 (I'd love to see a more recent one that includes STL's crime spike of the last two years if you have one):
1 Pine Bluff, AR 152.78
2 Memphis, TN-MS-AR 119.55
3 Saginaw, MI 86.68
4 Miami-Dade County, FL M.D. 79.24
5 New Orleans, LA 78.94
6 Florence, SC 78.73
7 Las Vegas-Paradise, NV 76.35
8 Albuquerque, NM 75.15
9 Fayetteville, NC 70.03
10 Oakland-Fremont, CA M.D. 67.94
11 Columbus, GA-AL 67.92
12 Little Rock, AR 63.34
13 Jackson, TN 62.16
14 Flint, MI 61.30
15 Stockton, CA 59.13
16 Lawton, OK 57.17
17 Shreveport-Bossier City, LA 57.00
18 Orlando, FL 55.30
19 Jacksonville, FL 54.49
20 Mobile, AL 53.54
21 Birmingham-Hoover, AL 50.97
22 Sumter, SC 49.39
23 Miami (greater), FL 49.08
24 San Francisco (greater), CA 47.56
25 Macon, GA 47.45
26 Tallahassee, FL 47.40
27 Jackson, MS 46.86
28 Hot Springs, AR 46.37
29 Tucson, AZ 45.62
30 Anchorage, AK 44.49
31 Baltimore-Towson, MD 43.68
32 Charlotte-Gastonia, NC-SC 43.38
33 Yakima, WA 42.45
34 Bakersfield, CA 40.53
35 Charleston-North Charleston, SC 40.15
36 Houston, TX 40.06
37 Modesto, CA 39.06
38 Indianapolis, IN 39.01
39 Waco, TX 37.95
40 Longview, TX 37.78
41 Salisbury, MD 37.21
42 Tulsa, OK 37.06
43 Spartanburg, SC 37.01
44 Visalia-Porterville, CA 36.67
45 Philadelphia, PA M.D. 36.65
46 Battle Creek, MI 36.14
47 Laredo, TX 35.87
48 Vallejo-Fairfield, CA 35.67
49 West Palm Beach, FL M.D. 35.51
50 Amarillo, TX 34.32
51 Oklahoma City, OK 33.88
52 San Antonio, TX 33.64
53 Lima, OH 31.96
54 Lubbock, TX 31.54
55 Columbus, OH 30.66
56 Los Angeles County, CA M.D. 30.33
57 Columbia, SC 30.14
58 Lafayette, LA 29.94
59 Texarkana, TX-Texarkana, AR 29.39
60 Panama City-Lynn Haven, FL 29.05
61 Gainesville, FL 28.84
62 Winston-Salem, NC 28.76
63 Corpus Christi, TX 28.20
64 Tuscaloosa, AL 28.15
65 Wichita, KS 27.44
66 Merced, CA 27.20
67 Savannah, GA 26.78
68 Wilmington, DE-MD-NJ M.D. 26.74
69 Nashville-Davidson, TN 25.70
70 Atlanta, GA 25.68
71 Greensboro-High Point, NC 25.35
72 Tampa-St Petersburg, FL 25.22
73 Philadelphia (greater) PA-NJ-MD-DE 24.62
74 Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ 23.89
75 Dover, DE 23.66
76 Goldsboro, NC 23.27
77 Fresno, CA 22.15
78 Durham-Chapel Hill, NC 22.05
79 Santa Fe, NM 21.33
80 Beaumont-Port Arthur, TX 20.15
81 Dallas-Plano-Irving, TX M.D. 19.78
82 Auburn, AL 19.34
83 San Francisco-S. Mateo, CA M.D. 18.82
84 Vineland, NJ 18.78
85 Salinas, CA 18.47
86 Greenville, NC 18.46
87 Fort Lauderdale, FL M.D. 17.86
88 Toledo, OH 17.82
89 Redding, CA 17.79
90 Sacramento, CA 16.57
91 Rapid City, SD 16.40
92 Wichita Falls, TX 15.94
93 South Bend-Mishawaka, IN-MI 15.22
94 Dallas (greater), TX 15.21
95 Lakeland, FL 15.17
96 Washington, DC-VA-MD-WV M.D. 14.63
97 Pensacola, FL 13.71
98 Jonesboro, AR 13.54
99 Ocala, FL 13.43
100 Los Angeles (greater), CA 13.13
101 Montgomery, AL 12.08
102 Palm Bay-Melbourne, FL 11.13
103 St. Louis, MO-IL 11.10
104 Knoxville, TN 10.99
105 San Angelo, TX 10.51
106 Milwaukee, WI 10.28
107 Colorado Springs, CO 10.24
108 College Station-Bryan, TX 9.90
109 Bradenton-Sarasota, FL 9.52
110 Cape Coral-Fort Myers, FL 8.05
Your comparison should be urban area. Not every municipality submit their numbers to the fbi. If comparing city based off of boundary is misleading for these two cities so is msa. Indy msa with Anderson back in is approx 3500 sq miles compared to the just under 10000 sq miles that is greater stl. So while Indy municipal boundaries are a nice clip larger than stl, stl's msa boundaries are a nice clip larger than Indy. If one is misleading based on that criteria, so is the other. The closest similarity is urban area between the two.
Lol again. Indianapolis inner city is nowhere near as bad as St Louis. Forget metros . let's focus on how bad inner city neighborhoods are. Indianapolis is huge. But let's look at every area that's inner city in any city you claim to be biased. Compare it. It won't come close. Instead of tryin to make St Louis be like other city's . make those cities like St Louis. Lol their inner cities would get destroyed.
Focus on whatever you want to focus on, just accept how the math works and depending on what you use the results will very radically. The method you like to use makes St. Louis look especially bad compared to others for obvious reasons. If you took just Indy's inner city it looks like its got plenty of instances where it might crack the top ten, you do the math, or don't since you think it's wonderful there.
My feelings are either count everyone with MSA, or just look at individual neighborhoods where you'd be. The invisible lines of city limits is stupid; you amusingly think neighborhoods like Blvd. Heights, St. Louis Hills, etc. that literally touch S. County aren't connected to them but are so magically linked to a neighborhood like Riverview a good 16 miles or so (eyeballing it) away on the other side of the city... That is pretty LOL as you love to say. How about the quiz based on your Clayton comment? Brave enough to take it?
Edit: Btw, are you trying to say there aren't inner city neighborhoods in other cities as bad as St. Louis inner city hoods?
Last edited by Caesarstl; 08-07-2015 at 07:35 AM..
Your comparison should be urban area. Not every municipality submit their numbers to the fbi. If comparing city based off of boundary is misleading for these two cities so is msa. Indy msa with Anderson back in is approx 3500 sq miles compared to the just under 10000 sq miles that is greater stl. So while Indy municipal boundaries are a nice clip larger than stl, stl's msa boundaries are a nice clip larger than Indy. If one is misleading based on that criteria, so is the other. The closest similarity is urban area between the two.
I've already commented that I'd like to see an urban area version and that it'd be better (either US or international version, although both will still have flaws), but I'm not aware of a list out there, do you have one? As for the continued Indy and STL discussion, what are you using for greater STL? Are you using CSA land area or MSA? Jw as your numbers are coming out quite bigger than my quick google... Which did turn up conflicting results on its own, making me a little too lazy at the moment to add them all up for the purpose of comparing their population densities. I do know the St. Louis region tacks on a lot of empty land due to how the counties are set up (boarder towns closely attached to the metro means the whole county, with all of its farm land (good sizes in IL), is coming as well). The CSA and MSA populations aren't that different, but a lot of land is added in with CSA.
That being said, empty land isn't my biggest issue as the stats aren't done per sq mile (although you could of course do this if you wanted). My issue is drawing imaginary lines which include or exclude large swaths of people who are clearly connected when you look at city only (like excluding around 85% of the people when doing STL's calculation), a big issue as the stats are done per capita. I do feel US MSA numbers are drastically over inflated based on their methodology (CSA getting even worse), but again, I haven't seen an UA crime stats list yet. Looking at the pic I posted you could compare St. Louis city + St. Louis County to Indy city, but there are of course still issues. (My whole point from the beginning has been that there are too many issues and that these rankings aren't apples to apples)
I wonder if "The Wire" is not too far fetched of a speculation of how it is in Baltimore ghetto neighborhoods. I always heard how Baltimore has some really nice parts and some really bad ones.
I agree with most posters, Baltimore had a very bloody July as well. They are on pace to be the murder capital this year. Baltimore, Detroit, and New Orleans to me are three cities with similar population sizes that are very dangerous (of course in select areas, not all over).
The Wire is exactly what Baltimore is like. Exactly. Or i guess 10-12 years ago..
Center Township, Indiana homicide rates (per 100,000 residents - using 2010 population)
2014: 34
2013: 37
2012: 25
2011: 29
Center Township is pretty small, only 143,000 people, but there is crime spill over into the adjacent townships like Lawrence Township.
I made a blog post on urban cores based on 1960 census tract population densities to see how their populations changed, I guess you could use those urban cores and see what the homicide rates are.
Baltimore is on its way to be the next Detroit.. A rapidly declining economy, increasing crime, negative media coverage, and low desirability as a place to relocate..
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