U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Celebrating Memorial Day!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-10-2015, 03:08 AM
 
Location: Reseda (heart of the SFV)
273 posts, read 249,743 times
Reputation: 378

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesarstl View Post
Don't kid yourself if you haven't spent time in both, the blight is way more widespread in Detroit. Does this mean STL isn't a poster child of urban decay and lost a ton of its urban population? No, it doesn't, but like I said the majority of the city is filled with active neighborhoods and the city has a balanced budget with a strong bond rating; QED, not the same. Btw, your simplicity in "describing" what happened with Detroit and St. Louis is beyond ridiculous.
Detroit's population peaked in 1950 at 1,850,000 and now has a population of a minuscule 680,000. St. Louis also had a peak population in 1950 registering 857,000 and now it has a very unimpressive population total of 317,000.

Detroit's population has plunged a whopping 63.2% from its 1950 peak. St. Louis's population has plunged a mind blowing 63.0% from its 1950 peak.

The stats clearly show these cities running neck and neck in urban blight, decay and futility; to argue otherwise is quite ridiculous. I have my fingers crossed that these beleaguered cities turn it around and have a resurgence but I won't be holding my breath.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-10-2015, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Westside Grand Rapids
3,570 posts, read 3,040,293 times
Reputation: 5494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico Valencia View Post
Detroit's population peaked in 1950 at 1,850,000 and now has a population of a minuscule 680,000. St. Louis also had a peak population in 1950 registering 857,000 and now it has a very unimpressive population total of 317,000.

Detroit's population has plunged a whopping 63.2% from its 1950 peak. St. Louis's population has plunged a mind blowing 63.0% from its 1950 peak.

The stats clearly show these cities running neck and neck in urban blight, decay and futility; to argue otherwise is quite ridiculous. I have my fingers crossed that these beleaguered cities turn it around and have a resurgence but I won't be holding my breath.
There is a difference between population loss and blight. There are a handful of cities that have lost population at the same ratio of Detroit. However most of them don't look anywhere near as decimated. I can't speak for St. Louis because i've never truly explored it. From what I have seen Detroit is still much worse in it's old core neighborhoods than STL.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2015, 06:05 AM
 
Location: sumter
7,212 posts, read 4,643,560 times
Reputation: 5877
Quote:
Originally Posted by shootfire View Post
Interesting post... made me join the site :-)
A couple observations,
Boston is one of the "small cities" with a much larger MSA (city is about 600k but MSA is 4.7m) - along with San Fran, Seattle and others already mentioned.

The MSA I live in right now - Greenville/Spartanburg/Anderson SC - Greenville is hugely reliant upon the MSA as by itself, it's a small city in a much larger metro area (61K city vs 820K MSA)

And a kind of opposite situation - Jacksonville, FL - the city is so large land-wise, that the city pretty much *is* the entire MSA, with very little exception. That is why Jacksonville's city population (840K) is a such a high percentage of its MSA population (1.4m). Once you leave downtown - while still in the city limits - it becomes rural extremely fast. The city of Jacksonville land-wise is equivalent to the entire San Francisco MSA, just to give an example.

I love random info!
Boston is not small in my opinion, and actually surprised its MSA is not more than what it is. Atlanta has a smaller city proper than Boston, but the MSA is bigger than Boston. Charlotte is a much bigger city than both, but the MAS is way smaller than either Boston or Atlanta. Providence, Rhode Island have a small population with 178,000 in the city, but the MSA is well over a million.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2015, 06:50 AM
sub
 
500 posts, read 261,992 times
Reputation: 831
I wouldn't quite put St. Louis in the same category with Detroit. Even if they built up the decayed areas of St. Louis, the suburbs would still largely overshadow it.
If they rebuilt Detroit to its former glory, it would be more dominant, I think. It is quite a bit bigger in area and can easily handle a much larger population.
I also don't think St. Louis is in as bad a shape as Detroit, currently.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2015, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Paris
1,671 posts, read 1,919,745 times
Reputation: 963
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
There is a difference between population loss and blight. There are a handful of cities that have lost population at the same ratio of Detroit. However most of them don't look anywhere near as decimated. I can't speak for St. Louis because i've never truly explored it. From what I have seen Detroit is still much worse in it's old core neighborhoods than STL.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico Valencia View Post
Detroit's population peaked in 1950 at 1,850,000 and now has a population of a minuscule 680,000. St. Louis also had a peak population in 1950 registering 857,000 and now it has a very unimpressive population total of 317,000.

Detroit's population has plunged a whopping 63.2% from its 1950 peak. St. Louis's population has plunged a mind blowing 63.0% from its 1950 peak.

The stats clearly show these cities running neck and neck in urban blight, decay and futility; to argue otherwise is quite ridiculous. I have my fingers crossed that these beleaguered cities turn it around and have a resurgence but I won't be holding my breath.
Your reliance on a single stat with what is abundantly clear no context to interpret it is quite ridiculous. These cities not only have a very different present situation, despite your black and white look at (only) population numbers, but their histories and perhaps more importantly their built environment are completely different (overall STL brick vs. Detroit wood-frame is going to make a difference for one, especially for availability of buildings for rehabs of the past couple of decades and the future). Look at recent urban investment for examples of how just population numbers can lead to incorrect conclusions: St. Louis has quite a few neighborhoods that are undergoing a huge transition, but some of these are losing a small amount of people... Hmm, how does that work? Well, look at other stats: median income is way up, % of population with a bachelor degree is way up, and the % of owners is rising compared to renters as once multifamily units are being bought by wealthier families and being converted over to single family units resulting in a much more stable and healthy neighborhood (that you'd falsely think was declining because you only looked at the population numbers).

St. Louis has plenty of urban blight, no question about that, but again, the majority of the city is intact neighborhoods without nearly the same level of widespread blight of Detroit. Even the urban prairies NW of downtown, and there are plenty, are a significant part of a land grab by a wealthy "developer" (using that loosely due to his poor and hated performance) who has been banking it for a long time and is now having it as a pitch for the city for the new government National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency site and his Northside Redevelopment. Will this area ever redevelop? Who knows, but most of the city isn't like that at all. Since I love pics, here are a few aerial pics, starting with the city from a distance (NextSTL), then the core, and then some neighborhoods: (pics from member KCMO, Bill Cobb - City Skyline Pictures, Cityscape Prints, Canvas, Metal, Panoramics, Murals, Digital Stock )

























Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2015, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Miami Beach, FL/Tokyo, Japan
1,699 posts, read 1,481,056 times
Reputation: 699
Miami-Ft. Lauerdale-Palm Beach metro area feels very disconnected and polynodal compared to other metro areas I lived in. I hear Detroit mentioned, and yes even here Miami feels to be more disconnected from the metro than Detroit is from hers.

I think this is because there is no central industry to the area. Miami has tourism, and there is ofc real-estate which is something you don't need to commute to a office for. Not to mention retirees. I really feel like I left Miami and the metro when I arrive in Jupiter but then I have not, and could drive up to Port St. Lucie before I actually do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2015, 12:28 PM
 
Location: CA, NC, and currently FL
366 posts, read 274,150 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico Valencia View Post
Detroit, Baltimore, St. Louis, Birmingam, AL and Atlanta. The major cities that are over 50% black tend to rely on there suburbs for prestige and GDP.
Los Angeles, Miami, Dallas, Houston are more or less the same or getting there based on demographic growth trend, except for being Latino instead of Black.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2015, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Nashville TN
4,925 posts, read 4,593,325 times
Reputation: 4778
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaneKane View Post
Los Angeles, Miami, Dallas, Houston are more or less the same or getting there based on demographic growth trend, except for being Latino instead of Black.
Latino majority cities are doing better financially than Black majority cities, black lives matter, the white man is holding black people down still in 2015 lol
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2015, 12:57 PM
 
Location: MPLS/CHI
553 posts, read 446,549 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKWildcat1981 View Post
Latino majority cities are doing better financially than Black majority cities, black lives matter, the white man is holding black people down still in 2015 lol
To be fair, Atlanta and DC are doing pretty well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2015, 01:11 PM
 
Location: CA, NC, and currently FL
366 posts, read 274,150 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKWildcat1981 View Post
Latino majority cities are doing better financially than Black majority cities, black lives matter, the white man is holding black people down still in 2015 lol
In general, they do better in comparison but that doesn't mean problems like poverty, crime etc are lacking in them.

It's funny because the locals from these places that usually talk about this with pride because it makes them diverse and international, are people from white suburbs that live nowhere close to where all the problems occur. To them being international is only good for some Mexican food you can get on a drive.

Last edited by KaneKane; 08-10-2015 at 01:25 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top