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View Poll Results: Most Powerful City in the Midwest outside of Chi Det and Min
St Louis 42 36.21%
Indianapolis 15 12.93%
Cleveland 31 26.72%
Milwaukee 6 5.17%
Omaha 4 3.45%
Columbus 4 3.45%
Other? Explain 1 0.86%
Cincinnatti 3 2.59%
Louisville 1 0.86%
Kansas City 9 7.76%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-20-2015, 09:25 PM
 
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Cleveland to Akron is only 15 miles closer than Cincinnati to Dayton, yet it seems like Cleveland-Akron is more connected than Cincy-Dayton. Is this true? Isn't it inevitable that Cincy-Dayton will grow together in the next few years? How will that affect population rankings?
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:41 PM
 
Location: NYC/CLE
525 posts, read 444,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STLgasm View Post
Cleveland to Akron is only 15 miles closer than Cincinnati to Dayton, yet it seems like Cleveland-Akron is more connected than Cincy-Dayton. Is this true? Isn't it inevitable that Cincy-Dayton will grow together in the next few years? How will that affect population rankings?
Yes, Cleveland-Akron are more connected then Cincy-Dayton. Cincy-Dayton is more like Buffalo-Rochester.

One thing is that Cleveland is bigger then Cincy, so it has a bigger base of people, and Akron is bigger then Dayton.

Cincy is barely bigger then Toledo
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:44 PM
 
3,932 posts, read 3,456,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usernameunavailable View Post
Yes, Cleveland-Akron are more connected then Cincy-Dayton. Cincy-Dayton is more like Buffalo-Rochester.

One thing is that Cleveland is bigger then Cincy, so it has a bigger base of people, and Akron is bigger then Dayton.

Cincy is barely bigger then Toledo

You're clearly going on city pop there, that's a terrible comparison barometer. Go spend a day in Toledo, and then spend one in Cincinatti and tell me what "barely bigger" feels like.
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:46 PM
 
6,546 posts, read 13,710,250 times
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Originally Posted by usernameunavailable View Post
CSA matters more, especially in Cleveland's case with Akron being so close by. And CLE is still far and away the largest CSA in Ohio, and a top 15 CSA nationally
Oh come on. This is a technicality. Even the Cleveland CSA is losing population. City, county, MSA, CSA....Cleveland is losing population.

Dayton is just as close to Cincy as Akron is to Cleveland. Cincinnati-Dayton area has right at 3.3 million. Cincinnati is the most important and largest metro in Ohio. cleveland only has a fraction of the new hotels, historic rehabs, and infill as is going on in Cincinnati, and plus Cincy is a more important business center. I travel to both cities often; Cleveland is a shell of itself.

STL is the 4th most important Midwest city and clearly wins this poll. That said, I would rather live in Columbus or Louisville anyway as they are safer, growing faster, and more vibrant education, arts, and foodie centers.
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
3,177 posts, read 3,827,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Oh come on. This is a technicality. Even the Cleveland CSA is losing population. City, county, MSA, CSA....Cleveland is losing population.

Dayton is just as close to Cincy as Akron is to Cleveland. Cincinnati-Dayton area has right at 3.3 million. Cincinnati is the most important and largest metro in Ohio. cleveland only has a fraction of the new hotels, historic rehabs, and infill as is going on in Cincinnati, and plus Cincy is a more important business center. I travel to both cities often; Cleveland is a shell of itself.

STL is the 4th most important Midwest city and clearly wins this poll. That said, I would rather live in Columbus or Louisville anyway as they are safer, growing faster, and more vibrant education, arts, and foodie centers.
Cleveland Metro Area GDP - $134 billion
Cincinnati Metro GDP - $90 Billion

Cleveland + Akron fortune 1,000 companies: 20
Cinci + Dayton fortune 1,000 companies: 13

Sorry, which one was the more important business center again ?

Last edited by Cleverfield; 08-20-2015 at 11:03 PM..
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Old 08-21-2015, 01:43 AM
 
992 posts, read 929,965 times
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Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
That said, I would rather live in Columbus or Louisville anyway as they are safer, growing faster, and more vibrant education, arts, and foodie centers.
The St. Louis Art Museum alone looms over both of their art scenes. What distinctive unique food do they have that trumps unique STL cuisine, let alone ethnic conclaves? Education - ever heard of Washington University in St. Louis, let alone MICDS, John Burroughs (two top 25 ranked prep schools in the country), and three top 100 ranked public school district systems (Ladue, Clayton, Rockwood)?
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Old 08-21-2015, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati (Norwood)
3,500 posts, read 3,940,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverfield View Post
Cleveland Metro Area GDP - $134 billion
Cincinnati Metro GDP - $90 Billion

Cleveland + Akron fortune 1,000 companies: 20
Cinci + Dayton fortune 1,000 companies: 13

Sorry, which one was the more important business center again ?
These woefully inaccurate figures misrepresent today's business reality (Cleveland MSA GDP=$122.9 billion/Cincinnati MSA GDP=$119.1 billion) and your closing comment suggests that either you didn't read or perhaps appreciate the significance of the #72 post.

Last edited by motorman; 08-21-2015 at 07:06 AM..
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Old 08-21-2015, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Paris
1,701 posts, read 2,038,058 times
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Why do so many threads on here devolve into a ridiculous **** measuring contest (especially with you Ohio!) of laughable CSA claims? American MSA numbers are already incredibly over-inflated, trying to use CSA numbers to boost the core city is a joke. Tiny commuter percentages from one far flung county to another, they don't even have to go to the core city! Canton is 60 miles away with lots of nothing around it for god's sake! Looking at Google earth clearly shows the separation of places like Akron, Canton, Youngstown, etc. (or Dayton for Cincy).

I consider St. Louis (inflated as well) and Cleveland about the same level overall, but with St. Louis pulling ahead by a little bit, and it doesn't need to add up 1/4 of its state to do it (this hurts your claims more than it helps)! Here's a more sensible measure of population, urban area:

St. Louis 2,150,706
Cleveland 1,780,673
Cincy 1,624,827
KC 1,519,417
Indy 1,487,483
Milwaukee 1,376,476
Columbus 1,368,035
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Old 08-21-2015, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Cleveland
3,177 posts, read 3,827,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesarstl View Post
Why do so many threads on here devolve into a ridiculous **** measuring contest (especially with you Ohio!) of laughable CSA claims? American MSA numbers are already incredibly over-inflated, trying to use CSA numbers to boost the core city is a joke. Tiny commuter percentages from one far flung county to another, they don't even have to go to the core city! Canton is 60 miles away with lots of nothing around it for god's sake! Looking at Google earth clearly shows the separation of places like Akron, Canton, Youngstown, etc. (or Dayton for Cincy).

I consider St. Louis (inflated as well) and Cleveland about the same level overall, but with St. Louis pulling ahead by a little bit, and it doesn't need to add up 1/4 of its state to do it (this hurts your claims more than it helps)! Here's a more sensible measure of population, urban area:

St. Louis 2,150,706
Cleveland 1,780,673
Cincy 1,624,827
KC 1,519,417
Indy 1,487,483
Milwaukee 1,376,476
Columbus 1,368,035
Part of the "whole lot of nothing" in between is artificial, due to the Cuyahoga National Park sitting between Akron and Canton. If you look on either side of that, there's a string of communities that connect the two. There are many from Solon and Twinsburg (part of the Cleveland MSA) who work in Akron, and many from Akron or Hudson who work in Solon. The Cleveland and Akron areas are very connected.

I acknowledge that Youngstown would be separated from the Metro, but I think there are a surprising number from Y-Town who commute to Akron or Cleveland, since there are many more jobs there.
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Old 08-21-2015, 06:52 AM
 
3,737 posts, read 2,963,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STLgasm View Post
Cleveland to Akron is only 15 miles closer than Cincinnati to Dayton, yet it seems like Cleveland-Akron is more connected than Cincy-Dayton. Is this true? Isn't it inevitable that Cincy-Dayton will grow together in the next few years? How will that affect population rankings?
It definitely feels that way. I wish I had numbers to back it up. I think that the 15 mile difference makes all the difference in the world, however. Suburbs, and affluent ones at that, like Independence, Brecksville, Broadview Heights, Strongsville, Twinsburg, Macedonia, Hudson, and Sagamore Hills among others feel very much divided in some ways between the two areas because both are within a reasonable 30 minute commute. I think it's also because some mutual employers are around in the area, for example, FirstEnergy has headquarters in Akron, but has many people working all across NE OH. I think the LeBron factor has helped to narrow the gap also, with him living in Bath and to be honest I think one of the bigger things that has helped to bridge the divide in recent years has been the Cuyahoga Valley National Park. It's become incredibly popular even moreso since being designated in 2000, and I think it sort of serves as a "Central Park" between the two cities, even being labeled one of the ten most visited parks. It really isn't uncommon now for the area to simply be referred to as NE Ohio, something I don't think was as common then. Also, both residents alike enjoy the Cleveland Orchestra, which has it's summer residency at Blossom Music Center, among other outdoor concerts there, which is less than 10 miles from DT Akron, as well as the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad, especially at Christmas! We'll really know it's overkill to have CSA status soon, as there is now a Swenson's (Akron's most notable local-chain) within 10 miles of Cleveland's core, and a Melt (Likely Cleveland's most notable local-chain, at least recently) within 10 miles of Akron's core, which will be complete within the next few months LOL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connec...estern_Reserve Historically, this also helped. An interesting trivia tidbit is that this is where the US Public Land Survey (which I believe was a pretty innovative/big deal) started. In East Liverpool, to be precise.

I think that while Cincinnati and Dayton don't likely have the same strengthened connections, they certainly are there. Will it lead to a merger? TBH I don't know. I think our society is moving more towards urbanization, especially as resources become more limited, but I'm sure that they will realize it is to their advantage to increasingly become partners in upcoming years. I'm sure it will certainly help, but I'm not necessarily sure that it would put Cincinnati above Cleveland. If I had to be objective though, I think Dayton might offer more overall, just on the basis of the National Museum of the US Air Force. Greater Akron does have the Pro Football HOF though.
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