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View Poll Results: Most Powerful City in the Midwest outside of Chi Det and Min
St Louis 42 36.21%
Indianapolis 15 12.93%
Cleveland 31 26.72%
Milwaukee 6 5.17%
Omaha 4 3.45%
Columbus 4 3.45%
Other? Explain 1 0.86%
Cincinnatti 3 2.59%
Louisville 1 0.86%
Kansas City 9 7.76%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-21-2015, 08:07 AM
 
3,466 posts, read 2,589,690 times
Reputation: 2131

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Oh come on. This is a technicality. Even the Cleveland CSA is losing population. City, county, MSA, CSA....Cleveland is losing population.

Dayton is just as close to Cincy as Akron is to Cleveland. Cincinnati-Dayton area has right at 3.3 million. Cincinnati is the most important and largest metro in Ohio. cleveland only has a fraction of the new hotels, historic rehabs, and infill as is going on in Cincinnati, and plus Cincy is a more important business center. I travel to both cities often; Cleveland is a shell of itself.

STL is the 4th most important Midwest city and clearly wins this poll. That said, I would rather live in Columbus or Louisville anyway as they are safer, growing faster, and more vibrant education, arts, and foodie centers.
Cincinnati area has more important companies, but Cleveland area does have more, it's undeniable. What I wonder, for the sake of argument, is what would happen to Cincy's GDP if combined with that of Dayton. I know Cleveland/Akron is at about 170B.

False. Dayton is 52 miles from Cincy, Akron is 33 miles from Cleveland. While that isn't a huge difference, it definitely does make a difference.

Not sure where the numbers/claims are on infill/historic rehabs in Cincy, but Cleveland has over 6 Billion Dollars in projects completed or underway right now. I wish Cincy well and hope it continues to see success, but I find the claim of "only a fraction" highly questionable.

I think that Cleveland and St. Louis can both make very strong cases for being the Midwest's 4th city. However, making a claim that Columbus and Louisville are more vibrant arts/foodie centers than Cleveland or St. Louis definitely makes the credibility of that statement start to slip. Not that either of those cities are bad, but Cleveland and St. Louis are legacy cities. Simple as that. Also, in all four of those cities/regions, there are plenty of areas where the only reason you would feel unsafe is if you were extremely paranoid.
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Old 08-21-2015, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Paris
1,671 posts, read 1,923,071 times
Reputation: 963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverfield View Post
Part of the "whole lot of nothing" in between is artificial, due to the Cuyahoga National Park sitting between Akron and Canton. If you look on either side of that, there's a string of communities that connect the two. There are many from Solon and Twinsburg (part of the Cleveland MSA) who work in Akron, and many from Akron or Hudson who work in Solon. The Cleveland and Akron areas are very connected.

I acknowledge that Youngstown would be separated from the Metro, but I think there are a surprising number from Y-Town who commute to Akron or Cleveland, since there are many more jobs there.
I know about the park, but it doesn't change at all the reliance on a small % of outer ring commuters that are generally just going to other suburbs and not generally stepping foot in the core being used to boost the core city's stature. Urban area is a much more realistic way to measure populations, and the adding up 1/4 of the state of Ohio that some posters are trying to do is laughable. I can't wait for the day when Erie, Pittsburgh, and Toledo become a part of Cleveland... Or will Toledo joining add in Detroit which would make Cleveland a part of Detroit?
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Old 08-21-2015, 03:44 PM
 
113 posts, read 80,388 times
Reputation: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Oh come on. This is a technicality. Even the Cleveland CSA is losing population. City, county, MSA, CSA....Cleveland is losing population.

Dayton is just as close to Cincy as Akron is to Cleveland. Cincinnati-Dayton area has right at 3.3 million. Cincinnati is the most important and largest metro in Ohio. cleveland only has a fraction of the new hotels, historic rehabs, and infill as is going on in Cincinnati, and plus Cincy is a more important business center. I travel to both cities often; Cleveland is a shell of itself.

STL is the 4th most important Midwest city and clearly wins this poll. That said, I would rather live in Columbus or Louisville anyway as they are safer, growing faster, and more vibrant education, arts, and foodie centers.
Ciny mine aswell be kentucky. no one outside cincy cares about cincy in the state.

columbus gets more love but ill let city-data tell the story. columbus is just a backwater dirt town.
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Old 08-21-2015, 04:34 PM
 
Location: NYC/CLE
518 posts, read 405,849 times
Reputation: 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by logongst View Post
Ciny mine aswell be kentucky. no one outside cincy cares about cincy in the state.

columbus gets more love but ill let city-data tell the story. columbus is just a backwater dirt town.
If your going to badmouth the Ohio cities, what is your perception of Cleveland
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Old 08-21-2015, 04:39 PM
 
1,972 posts, read 2,577,311 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesarstl View Post
Why do so many threads on here devolve into a ridiculous **** measuring contest (especially with you Ohio!) of laughable CSA claims? American MSA numbers are already incredibly over-inflated, trying to use CSA numbers to boost the core city is a joke. Tiny commuter percentages from one far flung county to another, they don't even have to go to the core city! Canton is 60 miles away with lots of nothing around it for god's sake! Looking at Google earth clearly shows the separation of places like Akron, Canton, Youngstown, etc. (or Dayton for Cincy).

I consider St. Louis (inflated as well) and Cleveland about the same level overall, but with St. Louis pulling ahead by a little bit, and it doesn't need to add up 1/4 of its state to do it (this hurts your claims more than it helps)! Here's a more sensible measure of population, urban area:

St. Louis 2,150,706
Cleveland 1,780,673
Cincy 1,624,827
KC 1,519,417
Indy 1,487,483
Milwaukee 1,376,476
Columbus 1,368,035
The Cleveland MSA has long been deemed bogus. It doesn't count Summit County (Akron), whose downtown is less than 35 miles from downtown Cleveland; population: (2013 est, 542,824). If Summit is included, Cleveland's MSA would jump to 2,322,497, which would put it at the head of your class. The CSA does include Summit Co. and more...
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Old 08-21-2015, 04:46 PM
 
1,632 posts, read 1,482,272 times
Reputation: 1176
Clearly Omaha is the true winner


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjjEMkNomRc
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Old 08-21-2015, 04:51 PM
 
2,601 posts, read 3,905,948 times
Reputation: 2275
I LOVE Omaha.
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Old 08-21-2015, 04:53 PM
 
1,632 posts, read 1,482,272 times
Reputation: 1176
Well, that song is just for you then
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Old 08-21-2015, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Paris
1,671 posts, read 1,923,071 times
Reputation: 963
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
The Cleveland MSA has long been deemed bogus. It doesn't count Summit County (Akron), whose downtown is less than 35 miles from downtown Cleveland; population: (2013 est, 542,824). If Summit is included, Cleveland's MSA would jump to 2,322,497, which would put it at the head of your class. The CSA does include Summit Co. and more...
By you I guess, and others who want to amusingly add up 1/4 of Ohio, but not by the methodology used to formulate the already very inflated American MSA population numbers. That being said, those aren't MSA numbers, they are the much more realistic Urban Area populations (did you even read the post you quoted?). The St. Louis MSA population is 2,806,207 for your information, Cleveland's is 2,063,598.
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Old 08-22-2015, 12:27 AM
 
291 posts, read 297,255 times
Reputation: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesarstl View Post
I know about the park, but it doesn't change at all the reliance on a small % of outer ring commuters that are generally just going to other suburbs and not generally stepping foot in the core being used to boost the core city's stature. Urban area is a much more realistic way to measure populations, and the adding up 1/4 of the state of Ohio that some posters are trying to do is laughable. I can't wait for the day when Erie, Pittsburgh, and Toledo become a part of Cleveland... Or will Toledo joining add in Detroit which would make Cleveland a part of Detroit?
Are you serious? Or just plain clueless?
First of all, the Census defined urban area is just an MSA in a tuxedo!! The bottom line is that Cleveland and Akron are in the SAME metro area. Furthermore, the I-271/Rt 8/I-77 corridor is pretty much built up from eastern Cuyahoga County down to south of Canton. So the Urban Area definition that you're using is a joke!! The Bay Area is one huge built-up area, but the Census Bureau separates SF and SJ. The Bureau also separates Los Angeles from Riverside, although there is continuous urban development between these two cities. You see, census urban areas are just like MSAs when comparing metro area populations. And for you to suggest that if we include Akron in the Cleveland metro area, we might as well throw in Erie and Pittsburgh when Akron is in an adjacent county, just shows how clueless you are!!!
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