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View Poll Results: Most Powerful City in the Midwest outside of Chi Det and Min
St Louis 42 36.21%
Indianapolis 15 12.93%
Cleveland 31 26.72%
Milwaukee 6 5.17%
Omaha 4 3.45%
Columbus 4 3.45%
Other? Explain 1 0.86%
Cincinnatti 3 2.59%
Louisville 1 0.86%
Kansas City 9 7.76%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-21-2015, 11:54 PM
 
301 posts, read 310,049 times
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This topic is flawed from the jump!! There's Chicago, then everyone else!! Detroit is clearly the 2nd most powerful but it's not even close to Chicago. To put MSP head and shoulders above the other cities in the Midwest is beyond comprehension. The Twin Cities are much closer to Cleveland, St Louis and some of the other cities than they are to Chicago and Detroit.
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Old 08-22-2015, 02:18 AM
 
Location: Shelby County ,Tn
757 posts, read 691,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
Clearly Omaha is the true winner


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjjEMkNomRc


LOL LOL LOL LOL Laaawd Ham Mercy



OMAHA in the Hoooooouse!!!
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Old 08-22-2015, 02:52 AM
 
Location: Paris
1,701 posts, read 2,037,587 times
Reputation: 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by pontiac51 View Post
Are you serious? Or just plain clueless?
First of all, the Census defined urban area is just an MSA in a tuxedo!! The bottom line is that Cleveland and Akron are in the SAME metro area. Furthermore, the I-271/Rt 8/I-77 corridor is pretty much built up from eastern Cuyahoga County down to south of Canton. So the Urban Area definition that you're using is a joke!! The Bay Area is one huge built-up area, but the Census Bureau separates SF and SJ. The Bureau also separates Los Angeles from Riverside, although there is continuous urban development between these two cities. You see, census urban areas are just like MSAs when comparing metro area populations. And for you to suggest that if we include Akron in the Cleveland metro area, we might as well throw in Erie and Pittsburgh when Akron is in an adjacent county, just shows how clueless you are!!!
O look, another city-data genius who says basically nothing so you just lob personal attacks in an attempt to hide your lack of an argument. How original and clever... Urban area is just a MSA in a tuxedo, what a well thought out argument you put together there, I've never seen a more sound methodology in my life! Btw, you don't seem to know the difference between these two things. Do you know what else is a joke? Claiming a place that is 60 miles away from another place just to try and boost numbers of the later... Furthermore, you're showing just how clueless you are in your conclusion as you have no context for my quote since you obviously haven't read the thread, or others... Cleveland's population has been suggested to also include Youngstown, and... all of NE Ohio! Yes, when you try and include 1/4 of the state of Ohio to boost your numbers you will get people like me who will call out the laughable homerism... and suddenly that sarcastic Erie and Pittsburgh comment works doesn't it? Sorry it went over your head, read next time and you'll look less foolish and hopefully be more polite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pontiac51 View Post
This topic is flawed from the jump!! There's Chicago, then everyone else!! Detroit is clearly the 2nd most powerful but it's not even close to Chicago. To put MSP head and shoulders above the other cities in the Midwest is beyond comprehension. The Twin Cities are much closer to Cleveland, St Louis and some of the other cities than they are to Chicago and Detroit.
A few thoughts here... first, there already was a thread by the OP that included all Midwestern cities except Chicago (you could call yourself clueless here since it's your favorite word) and the overwhelming result was just Detroit/the Twin Cities (which actually has a higher gdp than Detroit) (although there were some Cleveland boosters who tried to add up 1/4 of Ohio again stacking Cleveland's population to amusing heights of 3.5 million to 4.5 million people...), much like how here the only real competition is between St. Louis and Cleveland.
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Old 08-22-2015, 04:39 AM
 
6,546 posts, read 13,708,471 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clevelander1991 View Post
Cincinnati area has more important companies, but Cleveland area does have more, it's undeniable. What I wonder, for the sake of argument, is what would happen to Cincy's GDP if combined with that of Dayton. I know Cleveland/Akron is at about 170B.

False. Dayton is 52 miles from Cincy, Akron is 33 miles from Cleveland. While that isn't a huge difference, it definitely does make a difference.

Not sure where the numbers/claims are on infill/historic rehabs in Cincy, but Cleveland has over 6 Billion Dollars in projects completed or underway right now. I wish Cincy well and hope it continues to see success, but I find the claim of "only a fraction" highly questionable.

I think that Cleveland and St. Louis can both make very strong cases for being the Midwest's 4th city. However, making a claim that Columbus and Louisville are more vibrant arts/foodie centers than Cleveland or St. Louis definitely makes the credibility of that statement start to slip. Not that either of those cities are bad, but Cleveland and St. Louis are legacy cities. Simple as that. Also, in all four of those cities/regions, there are plenty of areas where the only reason you would feel unsafe is if you were extremely paranoid.
Legacy maybe, but those are not the places that educated millennials are flocking to. You need to travel to places like Columbus and Louisville to see what I mean. You will FEEL the difference. On the streets, in the food and the way people dress. It gets even more pronounced as you go to Nashville. Legacy, smegacy. Nashville is much more vibrant and important than Cleveland or STL.

STL is the 4th most important city in the Midwest just by sheer size and different districts. They have basically two downtowns, and much more revitalized swaths of land compared to Cleveland, and there is also some growth in the metro.

Cleveland is not the most important city in its own state, much less the Midwest. Cleveland's time has passed and this will only continue for the next two decades. Sure, there are a few revitalized blocks here and there, but these are a fraction of the city that is a shell of itself.
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Old 08-22-2015, 07:26 AM
 
5,102 posts, read 5,964,111 times
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Most "powerful" is an odd and silly term. Most "significant" perhaps, but powerful? Uh no.

Clearly Chicago is in another league than most of the US and it along with Detroit and Minneapolis are bigger than other Midwest metros. After that there is a cluster of similar size and significance.

No one city dominates. Cleveland would rank high - it has Cleveland Clinic, top cultural institutions and Case Western, but of course its economy has struggled. Others have stronger economies and cities like Cincinnati have pretty significant corporations like P&G and Kroger, so it's not really a clear thing.
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Old 08-22-2015, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,093 posts, read 4,700,776 times
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Cincinnati seems the most lively, built up and thriving to me personally.
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Old 08-22-2015, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Twin Cities (StP)
3,017 posts, read 1,859,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pontiac51 View Post
This topic is flawed from the jump!! There's Chicago, then everyone else!! Detroit is clearly the 2nd most powerful but it's not even close to Chicago. To put MSP head and shoulders above the other cities in the Midwest is beyond comprehension. The Twin Cities are much closer to Cleveland, St Louis and some of the other cities than they are to Chicago and Detroit.
Tell me more about the 1950's...
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Old 08-22-2015, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Cleveland
3,177 posts, read 3,826,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Legacy maybe, but those are not the places that educated millennials are flocking to. You need to travel to places like Columbus and Louisville to see what I mean. You will FEEL the difference. On the streets, in the food and the way people dress. It gets even more pronounced as you go to Nashville. Legacy, smegacy. Nashville is much more vibrant and important than Cleveland or STL.

STL is the 4th most important city in the Midwest just by sheer size and different districts. They have basically two downtowns, and much more revitalized swaths of land compared to Cleveland, and there is also some growth in the metro.

Cleveland is not the most important city in its own state, much less the Midwest. Cleveland's time has passed and this will only continue for the next two decades. Sure, there are a few revitalized blocks here and there, but these are a fraction of the city that is a shell of itself.
Cleveland has 2 downtowns as well. University Circle, home of the Cleveland Clinic, University Hospitals, Case Western Reserve University, The Cleveland Institute of Art, Cleveland Institute of Music, Cleveland Orchestra, and 4 different large museums, including nationally renowned CMA, is our second downtown.

Cleveland also has an incredible food scene, with several celebrity chefs, including Michael Symon. We have so many established fine restaurants that there are still ones I haven't eaten at, and new ones are opening all the time. The only 2 cities with an "Urban Farmer"? Portland, OR and Cleveland. E 4th St is lined with fantastic restaurants. I've had people from San Diego comment about how good our food is. We also have the historic West Side Market, which has been serving farm-to-table meat and produce, as well as ethnic specialties for over 100 years, and still going as strong as ever. We have the Great Lakes Brewing Company, one of the best craft breweries in the midwest.

Cleveland is hardly a shell of its former self, and is coming back in a big way. We've seen $6 billion in development in Downtown alone in the past 10 years, and more is on the way. We've had skyscrapers that were vacant for 20+ years converted into high end apartments. We had a vacant bank building converted to a downtown supermarket. We've had office buildings all over downtown converted to apartments, and now a 50+ story mixed use apartment/hotel/retail complex is in the works (nuCLEus |). There's a new convention center, and a 30+ story hotel being built. Cleveland nabbed the RNC despite Cincinnati and Columbus also submitting bids, does that sound like a city that's not the most important in Ohio to you?

The Cleveland Museum of Art recently completed a $350 million expansion and renovation, the largest cultural project in Ohio history. The Flats East Bank project (The Flats at East Bank | Spacious Waterfront Apartments) has brought new life to our river, with a 20 story office building, Aloft hotel, beautiful riverfront apartments, ground floor restaurants and retail, including Punch Bowl Social Club (http://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/...nt?oid=4560688), many restaurants, a boardwalk, and nightclubs.

The Cleveland Clinic continues to expand its already sprawling campus, adding a cancer center and medical school. Near that, more new apartments are springing up (The Finch Group buys Upper Chester land, starts site work for 177-unit apartment project | cleveland.com), as well as mixed use developments Welcome to Uptown Cleveland. Nearby Little Italy is as bustling as ever, with new high end houses, apartments, and condos being built, and a new rapid-transit station that was just completed. Oh speaking of transit, how many miles of rail transit do Cincinnati, Columbus, or St. Louis have?

St. Louis - 46
Columbus - 0
Cincinnati - 0
Cleveland - 34.3

In terms of neighborhoods, near West Side neighborhoods like Ohio City, Tremont, Detroit Shoreway, and Edgewater have seen a resurgence, with new condos, modern rowhouses, and apartments being built, fantastic new restaurants and shops, etc. Other neighborhoods like Chinatown and North Collinwood are in the early stages of gentrification as well.

And to your claim that educated millenials aren't flocking here, read this article that explains how Cleveland gained 63,000 college educated residents between 2000 and 2012: http://www.cleveland.com/business/in..._boosts_c.html

So tell me again in what way Cleveland is a "Shell of its former self"?

Last edited by Cleverfield; 08-22-2015 at 09:16 AM..
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Old 08-22-2015, 10:21 AM
 
Location: MPLS/CHI
553 posts, read 479,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pontiac51 View Post
This topic is flawed from the jump!! There's Chicago, then everyone else!! Detroit is clearly the 2nd most powerful but it's not even close to Chicago. To put MSP head and shoulders above the other cities in the Midwest is beyond comprehension. The Twin Cities are much closer to Cleveland, St Louis and some of the other cities than they are to Chicago and Detroit.
I posted this reply earlier in the thread, comparing Detroit and MSP metros to northeast Ohio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Ambitious View Post
Detrioit MSA, MSP MSA, northeast Ohio

Population:
Detroit 4,296,611
MSP 3,495,176
NE Ohio 4,335,920

Core cities population
Detroit 680,250 139 sq mi
MSP 704,000 107 sq mi (they're contingious)
Cleveland 396,815 77.70 sq mi

GDP (Millions of dollars)
Detroit 224 billion
MSP 227 billion
NE Ohio 170 billion

Per Capita Income
Detroit 22,319
MSP 35,388
Cleveland-Akron 24,275
Youngstown 18,551

Median Household Income
Detroit 49,160
MSP 54,304
Cleveland-Akron 42,215
Youngstown 36,255

Fortune 500
Detroit 14
MSP 17
NE Ohio 9

Unemployment Rate
Detroit 6.6
MSP 3.8
Cleveland 6.4
Akron 5.0
Youngstown 5.9

GAWC Global Cities (based on connectivity)
Detroit Beta -
MSP Beta -
Cleveland Beta -

Tourism
Detroit 15.9 million
MSP 29.4 millionmillion
Cleveland 14.9 million

Study: Twin Cities Visitors And Tourism Spending Up In 2013

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour...olitan_Detroit

Tourism thriving in Northeast Ohio, bringing $6.7 billion into the area | cleveland.com

Airports(total passenger boardings)
Detroit 15,775,941
MSP 16,972,678
Cleveland 3,686,315
Akron 1,830,000

Universities:
Detroit:
U of Michigan Ann Arbor #29 US News National Universities

MSP:
U of Minnesota #70 US News National Universities
Macalester College #24 National Liberal Arts
Carleton (45 mins from Minny) #8 Nat Liberal Arts

NE Ohio:
Case Western Reserve University #38 National Universities
Kenyon College #30 National Liberal Arts Universities
Oberlin College #23 National Liberal Arts Universities

All have ranked regional schools

Growth (MSA population)
Detroit 0.01%
MSP 4.37%
Cleveland −0.66%
Akron 0.09%
Youngstown −2.21%

Growth (GDP) 2014-2008
Detroit: 224,726 218,227 208,600 199,528 187,124 203,304
MSP: 227,793 219,708 211,326 200,702 192,686 196,547
Cleveland. 122,878 120,393 114,364 109,654 105,035 109,728
After Chicago, MSP has the most fortune 500 companies and highest GDP. It has higher population growth percentage and per capita income than most Midwest cities. Its arguably the most educated metro in the Midwest. The second busiest airport in the Midwest after Ohare. However, Detroit does have the legacy and the automobile industry, which can't be overlooked. My point though is that Minneapolis is closer to Detroit than it is to the rest of the Midwest. Minneapolis is the biggest city for miles. People in northern Iowa, parts of North Dakota, and southwestern Wisconsin all come to Minneapolis as it is the biggest city nearby. Also, there is no other large city in Minnesota and its far enough from major cities in other state to completely dominate its region.

These things don't have anything to do with power, but Minneapolis is the most bike-able city in the US and the second most walkable city after Chicago in the Midwest. It has the #1 park system (tied with St Paul) in the country and the most theater seats per capita. The downtown population is growing fast and Nicollet Mall downtown averages over 20,000 pedestrians per day. It has a thriving nightlife district downtown that gets overlooked. In the next 10-20 years, I only see MSP distancing itself from Detroit, although I am rooting for Detroit to do well.

Ok, back on topic now.
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Old 08-22-2015, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Paris
1,701 posts, read 2,037,587 times
Reputation: 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Legacy maybe, but those are not the places that educated millennials are flocking to. You need to travel to places like Columbus and Louisville to see what I mean. You will FEEL the difference. On the streets, in the food and the way people dress. It gets even more pronounced as you go to Nashville. Legacy, smegacy. Nashville is much more vibrant and important than Cleveland or STL.

STL is the 4th most important city in the Midwest just by sheer size and different districts. They have basically two downtowns, and much more revitalized swaths of land compared to Cleveland, and there is also some growth in the metro.

Cleveland is not the most important city in its own state, much less the Midwest. Cleveland's time has passed and this will only continue for the next two decades. Sure, there are a few revitalized blocks here and there, but these are a fraction of the city that is a shell of itself.
I'm really curious what criteria you're basing this on... It certainly isn't an economic argument, population, companies, etc., nor is it medicine or education, or... What did you have in mind exactly? Tourism maybe? Music? Nashville is certainly booming, way more so than St. Louis or Cleveland, but it's going to have to keep booming for a while to catch either of these two cities.
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