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Old 08-29-2015, 11:37 PM
 
2,029 posts, read 1,429,792 times
Reputation: 3030

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lance View Post
I made it very clear in post #370 that Galveston was a "regional" draw. Its clear that Houston/Galveston distractors often are so visceral in their criticisms that they create straw man arguments probably without even realizing it.



First its nobody goes there, then its nobody from anywhere that counts goes there. And if they do go there it's only for business or to visit Aunt Mary in Sugar land. But it is a heavily visited city, meaning that for whatever reason they do come, Houston is a dynamic City/Metro that attracts a lot of visitors....!
You need to work on your comprehension skills and quit picking and choosing what you say to try to slant things in favor of your own argument. You are a funny guy, though...I'm give you that!!!

 
Old 08-29-2015, 11:41 PM
 
2,029 posts, read 1,429,792 times
Reputation: 3030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lance View Post

I also want it noted that it was not me or any other Houston homer that is trying to turn this into another Houston vs Dallas argument.....
That's not what I'm trying to do at all. I just couldn't resist pointing out the hypocrisy on that one, since it was coming from the man who everybody on C-D knows just LOVES a good Houston vs. Dallas debate!!!
 
Old 08-29-2015, 11:47 PM
Status: "waite untill next year. It was fun while it lasted !" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Beautiful Northwest Houston
4,644 posts, read 4,480,463 times
Reputation: 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentallect View Post
That's not what I'm trying to do at all. I just couldn't resist pointing out the hypocrisy on that one, since it was coming from the man who everybody on C-D knows just LOVES a good Houston vs. Dallas debate!!!
Haha , Although I take exception at being called a hypocrite I will admit I do enjoy beating up on Dallas whenever possible. But this is not an appropriate thread to do so, so I will refrain from doing just that until another day !
 
Old 08-29-2015, 11:50 PM
 
2,029 posts, read 1,429,792 times
Reputation: 3030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lance View Post
Haha , Although I take exception at being called a hypocrite I will admit I do enjoy beating up on Dallas whenever possible. But this is not an appropriate thread to do so, so I will refrain from doing just that until another day !
LOL!!! Jack, we often disagree, but you are waaaay too funny not to like; you are alright with me, buddy!!!
 
Old 08-30-2015, 01:51 AM
 
1,462 posts, read 1,504,095 times
Reputation: 1019
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamo fan View Post
Apparently other cities (SF, Boston, DC, Philadelphia) are allowed to use their metro to boost their economic and population numbers (and sometimes when it is in a different state and does not contribute to the tax revenue of the state of the anchor city) but Houston is not allowed to use its metro to boost its amenities.
Pretty bad comparison since these are completely different scenarios for different metrics... A more apt comparison would be how SF relies on Napa to bring in its visitors, which no one would ever say because it's not true (Napa is certainly helpful but the actual city of SF still remains the main draw of the region). I'm not saying Galveston is the main draw over Houston or anything but your response to the post you quoted doesn't make much sense to me. The Bay Area dynamic (or your other examples) as it pertains to economic interconnectivity is not related to any of this.
 
Old 08-30-2015, 09:45 AM
 
420 posts, read 616,210 times
Reputation: 515
Here's what it boils down to....

I am a native Houston, I made studying cities my career, and I always think of ways to improve Houston and when I travel I critically analyze ingredients that other cities have done well and how they can be applied to Houston.

Houston is not perfect but it has MANY things going for it....... for its age and its stage in its life cycle. You see, cities are not built as final products...they are built in layers, generation after generation.

Houston is currently 179 years old...it has a city population of 2.25 million people, it has managed to build arguably the largest and one of the most influential medical centers in the world, it has positioned itself as the energy capital of the world, and has been instrumental in engineering and space technology. It is a leading American port and its GDP is greater than many nations!

On the cultural side, it offers top 5 options in almost all of the arts (including a $.5 billion expansion of the MFAH campus), it is one of only a handful of US cities to offer resident art institutions in all of the majors (ballet, symphony, etc.) and its theater district is second to only New York City in total theater seats.

It is home to an Ivy League caliber university in Rice University and is home to the 3rd largest public school in the state of Texas, in the University of Houston, whose trajectory aims it to be at UCLA level stature in the next decade or two.

It is a very green city and it ranks near the top US cities in park systems with Hermann park, Memorial Park, and the newer Discovery Green acting as gems of the city. The Buffalo Bayou plan and other pocket and recreation parks are constantly being improved.

The number of skyscrapers speak for themselves.

On the downtown side- The downtown Houston management district has really stepped up and "put its money where its mouth is". they've fought to locate 3 sports venues within their border, they've built Discovery Green and Market Square Park, they've enticed developers to increase residential downtown (close to a dozen residential and thousands of new units are under construction and will come online soon) and they have expanded the convention center presence and have offered incentives for developers to build more hotels around the convention center. this is all part of their master plan to increase tourism and increase downtown as the heart of the city. They also just expanded mass transit by opening3 new legs of the rail line that service downtown. One of their main priorities is establishing a upscale retail district downtown. They are doing other things but I think you get the picture.

Let's now take a step back and compare a 179 year old Houston to the greatest American city- New York City , at age 200 years old.

New York City, in 1824, had 100,000 residents. Central Park was still 50+ years away from becoming a reality. Fifth Avenue was a sleepy farm road, and most of the Commissioners' grid system was nothing more than a far out vision. The Empire State Building, the Chrysler Building, Rockefeller Center, Times Square, and most of the other NYC landmarks were well over a 100 years away from becoming a reality. Oh, and 200 year old New York City was constantly belittled by more "mature" European cities for not being in "their" league and arrogantly described as being a chaotic city filled with filth, and decay....and this was WAY before the influx of immigrants, the inhumane 5 points, the dumbbell tenements and the entire blocks of factories in lower Manhattan that spew pollution into the air.

Think about this...many of the critical elements of great cities are in place in Houston but we just have to find a way to tie them all together and improve on them and think about the urban issues to highlight them. The biggest obstacle, in my opinion, is Politics but that is also the most encouraging because newer generations bring new ideas and newer ways of improving things but...... the pieces are there for Houston to be a great city. I won't go into detail on all the ways to improve, or the multiple problems I see, but I 've seen enough progress to make this the only city I would want to live in....It is quite a feat to watch the layers of a world class city grow right in front of your eyes and I am very excited to see how drastically different downtown Houston will look in the next decade.

We all make a conscious decision, everyday, to be part of the problem..or part of the solution. I honestly believe that downtown Houston is part of the solution. Now I can't say that for other parts of the city but downtown Houston is trying to do it the right way.

Last edited by H'ton; 08-30-2015 at 10:45 AM..
 
Old 08-30-2015, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Houston
6,846 posts, read 12,392,242 times
Reputation: 5771
Quote:
Originally Posted by H'ton View Post
Here's what it boils down to....

I am a native Houston, I made studying cities my career, and I always think of ways to improve Houston and when I travel I critically analyze ingredients that other cities have done well and how they can be applied to Houston.

Houston is not perfect but it has MANY things going for it....... for its age and its stage in its life cycle. You see, cities are not built as final products...they are built in layers, generation after generation.

Houston is currently 179 years old...it has a city population of 2.25 million people, it has managed to build arguably the largest and one of the most influential medical centers in the world, it has positioned itself as the energy capital of the world, and has been instrumental in engineering and space technology. It is a leading American port and its GDP is greater than many nations!

On the cultural side, it offers top 5 options in almost all of the arts (including a $.5 billion expansion of the MFAH campus), it is one of only a handful of US cities to offer resident art institutions in all of the majors (ballet, symphony, etc.) and its theater district is second to only New York City in total theater seats.

It is home to an Ivy League caliber university in Rice University and is home to the 3rd largest public school in the state of Texas in the University of Houston, whose trajectory aims it to be at UCLA level stature in the next decade or two.

It is a very green city and it ranks near the top US cities in park systems with Hermann park, Memorial Park, and the newer Discovery Green acting as gems of the city. The Buffalo Bayou plan and other pocket and recreation parks are constantly being improved.

The number of skyscrapers speak for themselves.

On the downtown side- The downtown Houston management district has really stepped up and "put its money where its mouth is". they've fought to locate 3 sports venues within their border, they've built Discovery Green and Market Square Park, they've enticed developers to increase residential downtown (close to a dozen residential and thousands of new units are under construction and will come online soon) and they have expanded the convention center presence and have offered incentives for developers to build more hotels around the convention center. this is all part of their master plan to increase tourism and increase downtown as the heart of the city. They also just expanded mass transit by opening3 new legs of the rail line that service downtown. One of their main priorities is establishing a upscale retail district downtown. They are doing other things but I think you get the picture.

Let's now take a step back and compare a 179 year old Houston to the greatest American city- New York City , at age 200 years old.

New York City, in 1824, had 1000,000 residents. Central Park was still 50+ years away from becoming a reality. Fifth Avenue was a sleepy farm road, and most of the Commissioners' grid system was nothing more than a far out vision. The Empire State Building, the Chrysler Building, Rockefeller Center, Times Square, and most of the other NYC landmarks were well over a 100 years away from becoming a reality. Oh, and 200 year old New York City was constantly belittled by more "mature" European cities for not being in "their" league and arrogantly described as being a chaotic city filled with filth, and decay....and this was WAY before the influx of immigrants, the inhumane 5 points, the dumbbell tenements and the entire blocks of factories in lower Manhattan that spew pollution into the air.

Think about this...many of the critical elements of great cities are in place in Houston but we just have to find a way to tie them all together and improve on them and think about the urban issues to highlight them. The biggest obstacle, in my opinion, is Politics but that is also the most encouraging because newer generations bring new ideas and newer ways of improving things but...... the pieces are there for Houston to be a great city. I won't go into detail on all the ways to improve, or the multiple problems I see, but I 've seen enough progress to make this the only city I would want to live in....It is quite a feat to watch the layers of a world class city grow right in front of your eyes and I am very excited to see how drastically different downtown Houston will look in the next decade.

We all make a conscious decision, everyday, to be part of the problem..or part of the solution. I honestly believe that downtown Houston is part of the solution. Now I can't say that for other parts of the city but downtown Houston is trying to do it the right way.
This was very well said. I'm not sure how anyone can argue with this. But I'm sure we'll get 30 more pages of ridiculousness.
 
Old 08-30-2015, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Aurora, Colorado
5,371 posts, read 7,657,321 times
Reputation: 4324
Quote:
Originally Posted by H'ton View Post
Here's what it boils down to....

I am a native Houston, I made studying cities my career, and I always think of ways to improve Houston and when I travel I critically analyze ingredients that other cities have done well and how they can be applied to Houston.

Houston is not perfect but it has MANY things going for it....... for its age and its stage in its life cycle. You see, cities are not built as final products...they are built in layers, generation after generation.

Houston is currently 179 years old...it has a city population of 2.25 million people, it has managed to build arguably the largest and one of the most influential medical centers in the world, it has positioned itself as the energy capital of the world, and has been instrumental in engineering and space technology. It is a leading American port and its GDP is greater than many nations!

On the cultural side, it offers top 5 options in almost all of the arts (including a $.5 billion expansion of the MFAH campus), it is one of only a handful of US cities to offer resident art institutions in all of the majors (ballet, symphony, etc.) and its theater district is second to only New York City in total theater seats.

It is home to an Ivy League caliber university in Rice University and is home to the 3rd largest public school in the state of Texas, in the University of Houston, whose trajectory aims it to be at UCLA level stature in the next decade or two.

It is a very green city and it ranks near the top US cities in park systems with Hermann park, Memorial Park, and the newer Discovery Green acting as gems of the city. The Buffalo Bayou plan and other pocket and recreation parks are constantly being improved.

The number of skyscrapers speak for themselves.

On the downtown side- The downtown Houston management district has really stepped up and "put its money where its mouth is". they've fought to locate 3 sports venues within their border, they've built Discovery Green and Market Square Park, they've enticed developers to increase residential downtown (close to a dozen residential and thousands of new units are under construction and will come online soon) and they have expanded the convention center presence and have offered incentives for developers to build more hotels around the convention center. this is all part of their master plan to increase tourism and increase downtown as the heart of the city. They also just expanded mass transit by opening3 new legs of the rail line that service downtown. One of their main priorities is establishing a upscale retail district downtown. They are doing other things but I think you get the picture.

Let's now take a step back and compare a 179 year old Houston to the greatest American city- New York City , at age 200 years old.

New York City, in 1824, had 100,000 residents. Central Park was still 50+ years away from becoming a reality. Fifth Avenue was a sleepy farm road, and most of the Commissioners' grid system was nothing more than a far out vision. The Empire State Building, the Chrysler Building, Rockefeller Center, Times Square, and most of the other NYC landmarks were well over a 100 years away from becoming a reality. Oh, and 200 year old New York City was constantly belittled by more "mature" European cities for not being in "their" league and arrogantly described as being a chaotic city filled with filth, and decay....and this was WAY before the influx of immigrants, the inhumane 5 points, the dumbbell tenements and the entire blocks of factories in lower Manhattan that spew pollution into the air.

Think about this...many of the critical elements of great cities are in place in Houston but we just have to find a way to tie them all together and improve on them and think about the urban issues to highlight them. The biggest obstacle, in my opinion, is Politics but that is also the most encouraging because newer generations bring new ideas and newer ways of improving things but...... the pieces are there for Houston to be a great city. I won't go into detail on all the ways to improve, or the multiple problems I see, but I 've seen enough progress to make this the only city I would want to live in....It is quite a feat to watch the layers of a world class city grow right in front of your eyes and I am very excited to see how drastically different downtown Houston will look in the next decade.

We all make a conscious decision, everyday, to be part of the problem..or part of the solution. I honestly believe that downtown Houston is part of the solution. Now I can't say that for other parts of the city but downtown Houston is trying to do it the right way.
Great post!
 
Old 08-30-2015, 11:40 AM
 
1,462 posts, read 1,504,095 times
Reputation: 1019
Quote:
Originally Posted by westhou View Post
This was very well said. I'm not sure how anyone can argue with this. But I'm sure we'll get 30 more pages of ridiculousness.
For the most part, it was all things people already acknowledge, yet Houston is still apparently 'overlooked' or whatever.
 
Old 08-30-2015, 12:03 PM
 
9,701 posts, read 6,666,855 times
Reputation: 9775
Quote:
Originally Posted by westhou View Post
This was very well said. I'm not sure how anyone can argue with this. But I'm sure we'll get 30 more pages of ridiculousness.
It's a ridiculous argument. Houston's relative age has nothing to do with its relative lack of density, urbanity or tourist appeal. When a city was founded is irrelevent to when it grew/developed, anyways.

NYC is a very young city. It wasn't an important city until the late 1800's. The idea that NYC is important because it's "old" and Houston just needs "time" is ridiculous. In the global scheme of things they are both very young cities. Houston isn't really building anything in an urban manner, so it isn't like it will ever "catch up" with more urban cities. If Houston were founded in 1500 or 1900 it wouldn't make much of a difference. The issue is when it developed, not when it was founded.

LA is technically much older than Chicago, yet Chicago looks and feels much older. The relative differences in urban environment have zero to do with the founding dates of cities.
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