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Old 03-07-2016, 08:54 AM
 
6,546 posts, read 13,708,471 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyadic View Post
New Albany and Jeffersonville are still in the state of Indiana. Btw ... there aren't very many breweries in the Kentucky. Btw, Indiana is ranked 14th in craft brew sales and production. Kentucky is 46th. Tennessee is 41th. Missouri is 26th.

https://www.brewersassociation.org/statistics/by-state/


As far as jazz is concern you are delusional but that's your normal when you are discussing Louisville. I see you clearly avoided the Negro league and Indiana Avenue v.s. Walnut Street comparison. Smart man ... lol.
No...I disagree. Walnut Ave was JUST as important as Indiana Ave. And Louisville has several negro league teams.

You've also completely discredited the contribution of Louisville AA to music, particularly a unique form of southern music known as jug band music, which was a unique form of jazz and ragtime.

Indianapolis negro teams had short lived seasons too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...baseball_teams

The Clowns were the only long standing team, and they went back and forth to different cities, like Cincinnati.

Even though it was further south, Louisville was more accepting of blacks in many ways than Indianapolis. That's why the KKK has always had larger factions around Kokomo and Indy than around Louisville.

And the state of KY is not in this argument. The metro area of Louisville has just as many craft breweries or more than and city liste din this thread and I just proved that with objective and FACTUAL data about craft breweries in the area.

The lost city within Louisville


You ignored this video and have yet to post pictures of Indiana Ave that are any more impressive. In fact it looks the same as Indiana Ave!

So, why don't you agree to admit that Louisville goes pound for pound, ounce for ounce with Indy on all these fronts, from African American history and culture, music, and in the modern day, craft beer. I have provided objective data to prove it. You have ignored it. The only people to agree are the anti Louisville Cleveland/St Louis crowd (they have jealousy about my posts).

 
Old 03-07-2016, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
8,340 posts, read 14,051,212 times
Reputation: 5958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
First of all, it is not a taproom. It is a full scale brewery. They have started their own brewing there since last year, and have svereal beers unique to S. Indiana.

flat 12 bierwerks | 502 Brews

I have never been to the Jeffersonville location to drink, but have walked by it and stopped in after walking the Big Four.

I have been to the Indy location, and agree its an average place.

But the list posted for Indy included Rock Bottom (huge chain as opposed to Indiana based Flat 12), so I think Flat 12 is more than reasonable to include it as they brew their own beer.

Your comment is most just silly really.

So because Louisville has hoardes of restaurants etc based in Louisville then that means something for Indy?

Because there is J Gumbos, or Papa Johns, or KFC, or Boombozz Crafthouse, Wild Eggs, and I am sure many more restaurants based in Louisville located in Indy (funny that none of the actual really good restaurants locate there), then that means something? Nice try there...
Yes, they brew about half of what the Indy location brews. It is still a taproom from an Indy brewery no matter how you frame it. J Gumbos is awful, I did not realize it was an import from Louisville. If you are going to send us stuff, send something better. We do have a Quill's, it is good stuff.
 
Old 03-07-2016, 11:53 AM
 
1,496 posts, read 1,384,210 times
Reputation: 1494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post


No...I disagree. Walnut Ave was JUST as important as Indiana Ave. And Louisville has several negro league teams.

Prove it. Tell us about the history.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
You've also completely discredited the contribution of Louisville AA to music, particularly a unique form of southern music known as jug band music, which was a unique form of jazz and ragtime.

I know nothing about jug music. I couldn't name you not one jug music artist or band. I could be wrong but my guess would be that jug music was more of an Appalachian art form whereas jazz is international.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Indianapolis negro teams had short lived seasons too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...baseball_teams

The Clowns were the only long standing team, and they went back and forth to different cities, like Cincinnati.

Wikipedia led you astray ... lol. I standby my statement that not one Louisville team lasted longer than a year. Several negro league teams during that period changed cities from time to time. The Chicago American Giants which was once called the Cole American Giant played in Indianapolis for a year. The Indianapolis ABC had a fairly long history. The first Indianapolis ABC was from 1907 to 1925.


Indianapolis ABCs History (1907 - 1925) - Seamheads.com Negro Leagues Database Powered by The Baseball Gauge




I suggest you polish up on your Negro League history. Here is a link from the MLB website that gives a brief history of the major Negro League teams. Guess what ... no Louisville but of course you'll deflect that bit of information and say Louisville's Negro League history matched Indianapolis pound for pound.


Negro Leagues Team Information | MLB.com



Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Even though it was further south, Louisville was more accepting of blacks in many ways than Indianapolis.

Louisville was never known for it's African American history or culture. I documented Indy's jazz history. Talked about the Madame Walker Theater which was an African American cultural center built by African Americans. Talked about the first nationwide African American talent scouts and concert promoters. These two African American brothers created a nationwide music promotion system known as the 'Chitlin' Circuit'. I gave you an narrative of Indy's Negro league baseball teams. One team lasted nearly two decades. I provided documentation that countered your error in fact that the team were short lived. In previous post I listed the names of dozens of clubs that lined the streets of Indiana Avenue. I even gave you the address of their locations. Dude what else do I need to provide you? Indy's African American community was larger, richer and more engaged than Louisville. They weren't peer communities. With that said, I will admit that Louisville got Indy beat on jug music BUT not Ragtime music.
 
Old 03-07-2016, 01:11 PM
 
6,546 posts, read 13,708,471 times
Reputation: 3015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyadic View Post
Prove it. Tell us about the history.





I know nothing about jug music. I couldn't name you not one jug music artist or band. I could be wrong but my guess would be that jug music was more of an Appalachian art form whereas jazz is international.






Wikipedia led you astray ... lol. I standby my statement that not one Louisville team lasted longer than a year. Several negro league teams during that period changed cities from time to time. The Chicago American Giants which was once called the Cole American Giant played in Indianapolis for a year. The Indianapolis ABC had a fairly long history. The first Indianapolis ABC was from 1907 to 1925.


Indianapolis ABCs History (1907 - 1925) - Seamheads.com Negro Leagues Database Powered by The Baseball Gauge




I suggest you polish up on your Negro League history. Here is a link from the MLB website that gives a brief history of the major Negro League teams. Guess what ... no Louisville but of course you'll deflect that bit of information and say Louisville's Negro League history matched Indianapolis pound for pound.


Negro Leagues Team Information | MLB.com






Louisville was never known for it's African American history or culture. I documented Indy's jazz history. Talked about the Madame Walker Theater which was an African American cultural center built by African Americans. Talked about the first nationwide African American talent scouts and concert promoters. These two African American brothers created a nationwide music promotion system known as the 'Chitlin' Circuit'. I gave you an narrative of Indy's Negro league baseball teams. One team lasted nearly two decades. I provided documentation that countered your error in fact that the team were short lived. In previous post I listed the names of dozens of clubs that lined the streets of Indiana Avenue. I even gave you the address of their locations. Dude what else do I need to provide you? Indy's African American community was larger, richer and more engaged than Louisville. They weren't peer communities. With that said, I will admit that Louisville got Indy beat on jug music BUT not Ragtime music.

Louisville had negro teams in the 1880s. Your post proves nothing as you cannot refute the negro teams that existed in Louisville. If anything, it shows Louisville was less racist and more progressive in the 1960s than Indy...blacks played on Louisville's minor league teams

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jug_band
Early jug bands were typically made up of African American vaudeville and medicine show musicians. Beginning in the urban south, namely Louisville, Kentucky, and Memphis, Tennessee, they played a mixture of blues, ragtime, and jazz music. The history of jug bands is related to the development of the blues. The informal and energetic music of the jug bands also contributed to the development of rock and roll.

Jug music has NOTHING to do with Appalachia. Nothing. There you go stereotyping Louisville. Nothing remotely Appalachia about the city! Jug music is a purely URBAN form of music that actually influenced ragtime, blues, and even led to rock and roll.

Louisville doesn't have any black history? Are you out of your freaking mind? You lost all credibility there.

The most famous black man in the world grew up there, retains a home, there, and has a museum there.
Like every major city, Dr King marched there and so did every other black leader of the day. Louisville was a key city in the civil rights movement being a border city, had always had one of the largest percentage of freed slaves for a southern city.

I have nothing to prove to you since you've shown me NOTHING which shows Indiana Ave was more important than Walnut street in Louisville. Its literally all in your head.

The lost city within Louisville

Did you even bother to watch the video? Watch it and show me something about Indiana Ave. You haven't posted one pic that shows anything on Indiana Ave trumped the blocks and miles of high density along Walnut Street. The fact that you don't know about jug music means you must admit you know nothing of Louisville city. Your turn to prove it to me...just bc you ignore my links doesn't make your argument true.

The fact is, Indy and Louisville both had great, somewhat parallel and different, AA corridors, history, and urbanity associated with it.

Last edited by Peter1948; 03-07-2016 at 01:22 PM..
 
Old 03-07-2016, 03:31 PM
 
1,496 posts, read 1,384,210 times
Reputation: 1494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Louisville had negro teams in the 1880s. Your post proves nothing as you cannot refute the negro teams that existed in Louisville. If anything, it shows Louisville was less racist and more progressive in the 1960s than Indy...blacks played on Louisville's minor league teams

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jug_band
Early jug bands were typically made up of African American vaudeville and medicine show musicians. Beginning in the urban south, namely Louisville, Kentucky, and Memphis, Tennessee, they played a mixture of blues, ragtime, and jazz music. The history of jug bands is related to the development of the blues. The informal and energetic music of the jug bands also contributed to the development of rock and roll.

Jug music has NOTHING to do with Appalachia. Nothing. There you go stereotyping Louisville. Nothing remotely Appalachia about the city! Jug music is a purely URBAN form of music that actually influenced ragtime, blues, and even led to rock and roll.

Louisville doesn't have any black history? Are you out of your freaking mind? You lost all credibility there.

The most famous black man in the world grew up there, retains a home, there, and has a museum there.
Like every major city, Dr King marched there and so did every other black leader of the day. Louisville was a key city in the civil rights movement being a border city, had always had one of the largest percentage of freed slaves for a southern city.

I have nothing to prove to you since you've shown me NOTHING which shows Indiana Ave was more important than Walnut street in Louisville. Its literally all in your head.

The lost city within Louisville

Did you even bother to watch the video? Watch it and show me something about Indiana Ave. You haven't posted one pic that shows anything on Indiana Ave trumped the blocks and miles of high density along Walnut Street. The fact that you don't know about jug music means you must admit you know nothing of Louisville city. Your turn to prove it to me...just bc you ignore my links doesn't make your argument true.

The fact is, Indy and Louisville both had great, somewhat parallel and different, AA corridors, history, and urbanity associated with it.
Peter provide me a link documenting Louisville contribution to the Negro League. If you can't then say so. Provide me documentation showing Louisville strong contribution to the Negro League and I'll give you all the information on Indiana Ave you need. Also how could Louisville's Walnut Street have blocks and miles of high density when the African American population did not exceed 50,000 until after 1950?

I thought I was upfront when I admitted that I knew nothing about jug music. My best guess was that it had roots in Appalachia because is appears to have been mainly popular in Kentucky and Tennessee which correct me if I'm wrong ... are a part of Appalachia America. I do know this much ... it didn't make a significant imprint on American pop culture. Don't take this wrong but I put jug music on the same shelf with yodeling and scatting before Ella Fitzgerald.

My grandfather left me his 78 rpm music collection. The music on the 78's is race music from the 1920s to 1950s. I don't recall not a single jug band in that collection and my grandfather was born in Union City, Tenn. in the late 1800s.

Btw who is this most famous black man in America who grew up in Louisville?
 
Old 03-07-2016, 04:14 PM
 
6,546 posts, read 13,708,471 times
Reputation: 3015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyadic View Post
Peter provide me a link documenting Louisville contribution to the Negro League. If you can't then say so. Provide me documentation showing Louisville strong contribution to the Negro League and I'll give you all the information on Indiana Ave you need. Also how could Louisville's Walnut Street have blocks and miles of high density when the African American population did not exceed 50,000 until after 1950?

I thought I was upfront when I admitted that I knew nothing about jug music. My best guess was that it had roots in Appalachia because is appears to have been mainly popular in Kentucky and Tennessee which correct me if I'm wrong ... are a part of Appalachia America. I do know this much ... it didn't make a significant imprint on American pop culture. Don't take this wrong but I put jug music on the same shelf with yodeling and scatting before Ella Fitzgerald.

My grandfather left me his 78 rpm music collection. The music on the 78's is race music from the 1920s to 1950s. I don't recall not a single jug band in that collection and my grandfather was born in Union City, Tenn. in the late 1800s.

Btw who is this most famous black man in America who grew up in Louisville?
You know, you have very informed posts. Especially about Indianapolis. But I am done responding to you because of the bold question. If you can't answer this, you literally have never even driven by Louisville's waterfront.

I am not sure about Louisville's "strong contribution" to the negro league, but it had just as many teamsas Indy.

Segregated teams – 1900s

Our Baseball Heritage - The Voice-Tribune

"Louisville was home to several African-American baseball teams during the 1900s. These teams would often play multiples games in multiple cities a day. At one point, in 1949, Louisville possessed two professional baseball teams – the Colonels in the American Association and the Buckeyes in the Negro American League. The Louisville Black Colonels played from the 1930s until 1954, when baseball’s integration effectively brought an end to the African American leagues. Kentucky Governor A.B. “Happy” Chandler played a key role in the integration of major league baseball."

Louisville, being substantially larger and more important than Indianapolis in the 1800s, has a MUCH deeper and richer baseball history than Indianapolis. The mere fact that the city had one of the original National League MLB teams, regardless of the length of the team's existence, speaks volumes


Anyways, the famous AA from Louisville...He is actually probably the most famous African American in the world, recognizable internationally. His is prominent all over Louisville. So that fact that you cannot name it verifies 100% you may have never even set foot in Louisville, yet have strong opinions about it. I have lived in Indianapolis on the other hand. Lets agree to disagree and you really just don't know a thing about Louisville. Thanks.

Indy merged the city and annexed areas to make it "bigger" than Louisville by WWII...but that wasn't really the case. So find me some numbers which compare the African American population of Marion County vs Jefferson county in 1920. I'll wager they were similar.
 
Old 03-07-2016, 06:07 PM
 
1,496 posts, read 1,384,210 times
Reputation: 1494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
You know, you have very informed posts. Especially about Indianapolis. But I am done responding to you because of the bold question. If you can't answer this, you literally have never even driven by Louisville's waterfront.

I am not sure about Louisville's "strong contribution" to the negro league, but it had just as many teamsas Indy.

Segregated teams – 1900s

Our Baseball Heritage - The Voice-Tribune

"Louisville was home to several African-American baseball teams during the 1900s. These teams would often play multiples games in multiple cities a day. At one point, in 1949, Louisville possessed two professional baseball teams – the Colonels in the American Association and the Buckeyes in the Negro American League. The Louisville Black Colonels played from the 1930s until 1954, when baseball’s integration effectively brought an end to the African American leagues. Kentucky Governor A.B. “Happy” Chandler played a key role in the integration of major league baseball."

Louisville, being substantially larger and more important than Indianapolis in the 1800s, has a MUCH deeper and richer baseball history than Indianapolis. The mere fact that the city had one of the original National League MLB teams, regardless of the length of the team's existence, speaks volumes


Anyways, the famous AA from Louisville...He is actually probably the most famous African American in the world, recognizable internationally. His is prominent all over Louisville. So that fact that you cannot name it verifies 100% you may have never even set foot in Louisville, yet have strong opinions about it. I have lived in Indianapolis on the other hand. Lets agree to disagree and you really just don't know a thing about Louisville. Thanks.

Indy merged the city and annexed areas to make it "bigger" than Louisville by WWII...but that wasn't really the case. So find me some numbers which compare the African American population of Marion County vs Jefferson county in 1920. I'll wager they were similar.
You are avoiding the question. When did Louisville ever play a significant role in the Negro League? Btw the link you provided had nothing to do with the Negro League. Nashville, Indianapolis, Memphis, Birmingham, Kansas City, New York, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Washington D.C., Jacksonville, Atlanta, New Orleans, and Philadelphia were all major players in the Negro League.

I'll ask you again. Please provide me with information about Louisville glory days in the Negro League. Surely a city the size of Louisville that (as you claim) had a much larger, richer, more vibrant African American community than Indianapolis had a more superior Negro League team. If you can't provide the information just admit it.
 
Old 03-07-2016, 06:15 PM
 
11,847 posts, read 32,808,188 times
Reputation: 8591
This thread has gone way off topic. Time to close it.
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