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WOW another amazing Stat for DC twice as many as Atlanta and Los Angeles but they are similar sized cities population-wise.
In comparison to Atlanta, you have to keep in mind that salaries are higher because COL is substantially higher as well. LA has a similarly high COL as well, but it doesn't do too shabby in comparison to the size of its Black population overall.
I understand what you're saying, but I think that's more of a function of geoeconomic trends than anything (Northern post-industrial economies versus Sunbelt service sector economies). Also, blue collar professions in the North are a bit different than in the South due to the presence of unions/absence of right-to-work laws.
That's true, but that's one of those things that just "is what it is." There are more than enough posts on this forum about how DC would be nuttin' without the government, NYC would be nuttin' without Wall Street, the Bay Area would be nuttin' without Apple and Google, the Research Triangle would be nuttin' without ________. Northern industrial economies were once better for African Americans but that's not the case anymore. The economy is different and the cities that are now attracting large numbers of Black people are different today too.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
It's easy to quantify the economic data, but not so much the sociocultural factors which is what makes this exercise interesting and not an exact science.
We could start by spelling out exactly what we think these factors are. I've mentioned educational attainment and the concentration of educated/professional Blacks. Poverty could be seen as a social or economic factor. I also mentioned "institutions," which we would need to set parameters for. There is a way to be more objective about it.
It gets trickier when people start talking about "things to do." Some people have said, for example, that Houston is just a more happening place for Black people than Dallas, particularly younger Black people, and that is hard to prove. I'm inclined to give some weight to these types of subjective considerations, but obviously a Battle of the Bands competition can't take priority over a 35% poverty rate. Some factors are more important than others.
I also get the argument about legacy cities but the advantages legacy cities have are reflected in the political dynamics of the city/region.
The thing is anyway that cities with large Black creative classes have all of the cultural stuff anyway. I mean, if you look at the I Don't Do Clubs list, there is a pretty strong correlation between the size of the creative class in these cities and the number of events they list.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Does your ranking change at all in light of the data you've presented?
Not really. NYC is the one I'm most unsure about. I had it at 3rd before but I could see it going as low as 5th behind Houston and Dallas.
I still see Atlanta and DC as equals more or less with an edge to DC. They would be 1b and 1a, respectively. DC is in better economic shape than Atlanta, which is largely due to the government presence, but that's the way it is. But it's still a tight race between these two, imo, because the demographic trends are more in Atlanta's favor.
Chicago still ranks below Dallas and Houston in my view. Black poverty and unemployment are too high and I believe its Black population is declining.
Philly goes below Chicago. It also has a high poverty rate and its Black creative class is a lot smaller than Chicago's.
Maybe Los Angeles after Philly. Although L.A. has a large Black creative class, I can't rank it above Philly because Blacks make up such a small % of the MSA.
Miami and Detroit are tricky. I'm actually inclined to put Detroit over Miami because of the greater Black political power in Detroit.
In comparison to Atlanta, you have to keep in mind that salaries are higher because COL is substantially higher as well. LA has a similarly high COL as well, but it doesn't do too shabby in comparison to the size of its Black population overall.
I tend to think COL is higher because salaries are higher. But the point still stands that salaries must be adjusted to account for COL differences.
Black or African American Households Earning $200,000 or More by MSA
Washington - 37,457 (6.7%)
New York - 34,872 (2.9%)
Atlanta - 12,706 (1.9%)
Chicago - 10,756 (1.8%)
Los Angeles - 10,202 (3.0%)
Houston - 8,858 (2.2%)
Philadelphia - 7,307 (1.6%)
Dallas - 6,528 (1.7%)
Bay Area - 5,875 (3.8%)
Miami - 4,445 (1.2%)
Boston - 4,361 (3.6%)
Detroit - 3,872 (1.1%)
Interesting note: DC has more Black households earning $200,000 per year or more than Atlanta has earning $150,000 per year or more. You would need to add up Dallas' four largest income classes to exceed the number of top DC earners.
I don't know. More would go into my "economic" metric than simply median income. Income alone is too narrow a way to look at it.
I haven't exactly figured this out, but I am pretty sure I want to penalize cities that (1) have a high % of Black poverty and (2) have a Black workforce that is heavily skewed towards low-level occupations (janitors, fast food, retail, etc.). 32% of the Black people in Metro Columbus, for example, live below the poverty line. That's an important fact to take into account.
I'm not talking about just median household income, but in terms of a quite visible business presence and political presence. It doesn't hurt that it is home to the biggest university in the country and has 2 HBCU's nearby. Check out its, "Who's Who In Black Columbus" series as well.
That's true, but that's one of those things that just "is what it is." There are more than enough posts on this forum about how DC would be nuttin' without the government, NYC would be nuttin' without Wall Street, the Bay Area would be nuttin' without Apple and Google, the Research Triangle would be nuttin' without ________. Northern industrial economies were once better for African Americans but that's not the case anymore. The economy is different and the cities that are now attracting large numbers of Black people are different today too.
We could start by spelling out exactly what we think these factors are. I've mentioned educational attainment and the concentration of educated/professional Blacks. Poverty could be seen as a social or economic factor. I also mentioned "institutions," which we would need to set parameters for. There is a way to be more objective about it.
It gets trickier when people start talking about "things to do." Some people have said, for example, that Houston is just a more happening place for Black people than Dallas, particularly younger Black people, and that is hard to prove. I'm inclined to give some weight to these types of subjective considerations, but obviously a Battle of the Bands competition can't take priority over a 35% poverty rate. Some factors are more important than others.
I also get the argument about legacy cities but the advantages legacy cities have are reflected in the political dynamics of the city/region.
The thing is anyway that cities with large Black creative classes have all of the cultural stuff anyway. I mean, if you look at the I Don't Do Clubs list, there is a pretty strong correlation between the size of the creative class in these cities and the number of events they list.
Not really. NYC is the one I'm most unsure about. I had it at 3rd before but I could see it going as low as 5th behind Houston and Dallas.
I still see Atlanta and DC as equals more or less with an edge to DC. They would be 1b and 1a, respectively. DC is in better economic shape than Atlanta, which is largely due to the government presence, but that's the way it is. But it's still a tight race between these two, imo, because the demographic trends are more in Atlanta's favor.
Chicago still ranks below Dallas and Houston in my view. Black poverty and unemployment are too high and I believe its Black population is declining.
Philly goes below Chicago. It also has a high poverty rate and its Black creative class is a lot smaller than Chicago's.
Maybe Los Angeles after Philly. Although L.A. has a large Black creative class, I can't rank it above Philly because Blacks make up such a small % of the MSA.
Miami and Detroit are tricky. I'm actually inclined to put Detroit over Miami because of the greater Black political power in Detroit.
Bay Area comes next. Boston is dead last.
You can prove that Houston is a more happening place for blacks than DFW, especially socially. First of all, there are two huge HBCUs down here that contribute heavily to Houston's social scene, community, economy, politics, etc.; Houston night as well adopt Southern University as well because SU's largest alumni chapter is here, and the SU alums are very prevalent! With that being said, you can expect two Homecoming weeks, one rivalry game (Labor Day Classic), SWAC Championship, etc. Also, the respective events result in day and after parties thoughout the respective week.
Also, Houston has greater percentage of blacks than DFW, which is way whiter than Houston. This fact in return, for DFW, makes DFW feel less black as a whole than Houston. Houston has a replica of its blacker southern and southwestern areas and 3rd Ward in Acres Homes, north/northeast Houston, 1960 area, and parts of Humble, Atascocita, and Spring. The areas along Westheimer are really black as well. There's, also, a nice chuck of Galveston and Galveston County (League City, Hitchcock, Dickinson, and Texas City) that is very black. In Houston, you will not go anywhere without seeing blacks; I, even, see hella blacks shopping and eating out in The Woodlands. Blacks in Houston are evenly distributed between the north and the south. People always think about the south and sothwest areas when they think of black Houston, but people tend to forget that the north is just as black.
Then, the nightlife rivals Atlanta. Houston's black nightlife has improved greatly since I've been here, and that's been over a year. There are soooo many day parties here, especially on Sundays. Just like Atlanta, Houston has celebrities every weekend; there are several black strip clubs that turn into nightclubs. I know many black people from Dallas that come down here to party.
I know Spade is gone get me, but, oh well. *Kanye West shrug*
That's true, but that's one of those things that just "is what it is." There are more than enough posts on this forum about how DC would be nuttin' without the government, NYC would be nuttin' without Wall Street, the Bay Area would be nuttin' without Apple and Google, the Research Triangle would be nuttin' without ________. Northern industrial economies were once better for African Americans but that's not the case anymore. The economy is different and the cities that are now attracting large numbers of Black people are different today too.
I think it's more nuanced than that; DC is built to be the nation's capital so that's a bit different. NYC and Chicago are more generalists, as is Atlanta to a lesser extent. I get your point though.
But Chicago is an interesting case as a Rustbelt city/legacy Black mecca that successfully transitioned to a more service sector economy, doesn't have an exceptionally high COL, still posts respectable numbers with respect to its Black population, but is also losing ground among Blacks.
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We could start by spelling out exactly what we think these factors are. I've mentioned educational attainment and the concentration of educated/professional Blacks. Poverty could be seen as a social or economic factor. I also mentioned "institutions," which we would need to set parameters for. There is a way to be more objective about it.
Agreed.
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It gets trickier when people start talking about "things to do." Some people have said, for example, that Houston is just a more happening place for Black people than Dallas, particularly younger Black people, and that is hard to prove. I'm inclined to give some weight to these types of subjective considerations, but obviously a Battle of the Bands competition can't take priority over a 35% poverty rate. Some factors are more important than others.
Agreed as well.
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I also get the argument about legacy cities but the advantages legacy cities have are reflected in the political dynamics of the city/region.
The thing is anyway that cities with large Black creative classes have all of the cultural stuff anyway. I mean, if you look at the I Don't Do Clubs list, there is a pretty strong correlation between the size of the creative class in these cities and the number of events they list.
Truthfully, I think most of the cultural stuff you can find in most cities with a sizable Black population, but it's just a matter of quantity for the most part--unless we're defining "cultural stuff" differently.
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Not really. NYC is the one I'm most unsure about. I had it at 3rd before but I could see it going as low as 5th behind Houston and Dallas.
I still see Atlanta and DC as equals more or less with an edge to DC. They would be 1b and 1a, respectively. DC is in better economic shape than Atlanta, which is largely due to the government presence, but that's the way it is. But it's still a tight race between these two, imo, because the demographic trends are more in Atlanta's favor.
Chicago still ranks below Dallas and Houston in my view. Black poverty and unemployment are too high and I believe its Black population is declining.
Philly goes below Chicago. It also has a high poverty rate and its Black creative class is a lot smaller than Chicago's.
Maybe Los Angeles after Philly. Although L.A. has a large Black creative class, I can't rank it above Philly because Blacks make up such a small % of the MSA.
Miami and Detroit are tricky. I'm actually inclined to put Detroit over Miami because of the greater Black political power in Detroit.
That's somewhat hard to see, given the sheer difference in numbers and the fact that Atlanta is huge Black LGBT magnet as well (which constitutes a subset of nightlife).
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