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Isn't this 2015? I'm pretty sure this isn't 2030 or 2040 which is when Tyson's is expected to be actually buildout. Ignorance is bliss so they say!
This is why nobody can have intelligent discussions on city-data. It takes a certain level of attention to detail and a lot of people seem to lack that skill. Did you even read the title of the thread you just posted? Sad...just sad....smh....
Also do you expect 2 of the fastest growing metros to just slack to the point that a secondary or even less CBD, in another metro is going to catch up to it. Unless of course Downtown Houston is still considered the area walled in by those 4 highways Downtown Houston is very likely to spread into the surrounding neighborhoods and make DT bigger, by 2030, but the other part sof downtown would technically be considered a different neighborhood.
Also do you expect 2 of the fastest growing metros to just slack to the point that a secondary or even less CBD, in another metro is going to catch up to it. Unless of course Downtown Houston is still considered the area walled in by those 4 highways Downtown Houston is very likely to spread into the surrounding neighborhoods and make DT bigger, by 2030, but the other part sof downtown would technically be considered a different neighborhood.
I think the biggest issue with this debate is that there hasn't been a clear definition of what kind of development can be included in an urban core. What are the urban development guidelines and criteria? I know a big issue with Atlanta's core is whether single family homes can be included. In my opinion, one or two here and there surrounded by buildings is fine, but an entire neighborhood of them is out of the question.
I know a big issue with Atlanta's core is whether single family homes can be included. In my opinion, one or two here and there surrounded by buildings is fine, but an entire neighborhood of them is out of the question.
This is your issue, not ours. Those neighborhoods aren't going anywhere, nor to we want them to. Deal with it, and just keep worrying about D.C. Anytime Atlanta is compared to D.C., it is guaranteed that you will turn the thread toxic.
I think the biggest issue with this debate is that there hasn't been a clear definition of what kind of development can be included in an urban core. What are the urban development guidelines and criteria? I know a big issue with Atlanta's core is whether single family homes can be included. In my opinion, one or two here and there surrounded by buildings is fine, but an entire neighborhood of them is out of the question.
New SFHs only get built in established SFH neighborhoods in Atlanta's core. But the existing historic neighborhoods are beautiful and will not be razed to suit someone's idea of what an urban core should look like, especially when they pre-existed all the commercial/highrise development.
New SFHs only get built in established SFH neighborhoods in Atlanta's core. But the existing historic neighborhoods are beautiful and will not be razed to suit someone's idea of what an urban core should look like, especially when they pre-existed all the commercial/highrise development.
Who said they should be razed? That is something JMat keeps talking about. I never said they should be razed. They are beautiful and historic, they just aren't very urban and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm not the one that thinks they're a problem, I just said they aren't included in the urban core of Atlanta.
Almost every city has single family homes and they aren't considered apart of the urban core. If they were, the entire cities of NYC, Boston, Philly, DC, or Baltimore would be considered the urban core which obviously makes no sense. To get an apples to apples comparison, you have to use the same criteria for every city.
Nobody seems to care about single family homes not being included except for a few people on here that get upset at the fact that not including them makes Atlanta's urban core smaller and linear. There is nothing wrong with that though, just be happy with the character of your city. Atlanta wasn't built like NYC, Boston, Philly, DC, or Baltimore. Neither was Dallas or Houston. That is not a bad thing. For some reason, people must feel inferior when someone says a cities urban core is small. Does that define how great a city is? Look how many urban core's are filled with disinvestment and are falling apart because of drugs and vacant houses. Urban core doesn't equal vibrant and bustling all the time.
This is your issue, not ours. Those neighborhoods aren't going anywhere, nor to we want them to. Deal with it, and just keep worrying about D.C. Anytime Atlanta is compared to D.C., it is guaranteed that you will turn the thread toxic.
No, that is actually your issue because you seem to have an issue with the notion that Atlanta's urban core is small or runs linear because it bumps up against single family homes. There is nothing wrong with having single family homes in the city. They're beautiful and historic, they just aren't very urban and there is nothing wrong with that. They aren't supposed to be. To compare two cities, we have to use the same criteria so we can get an apples to apples comparison. If you were comparing D.C. proper to Atlanta, for instance, and you wanted to compare urban cores, you would have to use the same definition. If you include single family homes, the entire city of Washington D.C. would be considered the urban core. How is an entire city the urban core? That's really the point I'm making.
There is nothing wrong with having a small urban core or a linear urban core. Being a very urban city has nothing to do with how great a city is. There are plenty of urban cities that aren't very nice and Atlanta runs circles around them. Just be who you are and take pride in what your city excels in. Being urban doesn't mean a city is vibrant or nice to live in. People shouldn't feel like their city is inferior just because its not that urban compared to other cities. Being urban doesn't equal better or nicer.
You seem to take offense that I am saying Atlanta doesn't have a very large urban core and that it runs linear instead of just embracing it and taking pride in what Atlanta does have. You could have easily said "yes, we don't have that big of an urban core, however, we have very nice leafy neighborhoods filled with historic homes that are beautiful right next to our urban core." I would have agreed with you because Atlanta does have that and they're beautiful. Sometimes I think we are both on the same page saying the same thing in a different way.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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This thread is interesting to read through, as most people just wrote off MDAllStar's points on these comparisons, but his premise is valid. The most urban "suburban" nodes surrounding DC are more densely constructed, and many either match or well exceed the density the downtowns/midtowns/uptowns of each DAL/HOU/ATL. It's crazy reading this now and seeing how personally offended people get when legitimate points are made. Keep in mind this is just discussion of the "urban nodes" and their density, some of these cities have suburban or core neighborhoods that keep higher density, but they aren't considered a major node of their metro.
Below are the top three Census tracts by density in each major node of each city. I used the Census data demographic map that came out once the 2020 Census data broke, so correct me if I missed some. I did not add Tysons, as these are all "core" areas being compared, that is an edge suburb.
Census Tract 1017.01, Arlington County, Virginia Population Density: 58,838.1
Total Population: 5,507
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Census Tract 1017.04, Arlington County, Virginia Population Density: 51,588.2
Total Population: 1,990
Land Area (sq mi): 0.0
Census Tract 1018.05, Arlington County, Virginia Population Density: 48,704.0
Total Population: 3,760
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Ballston (Arlington, VA)
Census Tract 1014.07, Arlington County, Virginia Population Density: 96,758.4
Total Population: 3,812
Land Area (sq mi): 0.0
Census Tract 1014.05, Arlington County, Virginia Population Density: 72,487.3
Total Population: 2,176
Land Area (sq mi): 0.0
Census Tract 1014.09, Arlington County, Virginia Population Density: 51,735.3
Total Population: 2,120
Land Area (sq mi): 0.0
Crystal City (Arlington, VA)
Census Tract 1035.03, Arlington County, Virginia Population Density: 65,782.1
Total Population: 5,102
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Census Tract 1034.05, Arlington County, Virginia Population Density: 26,043.2
Total Population: 3,874
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Census Tract 1035.01, Arlington County, Virginia Population Density: 25,359.1
Total Population: 3,535
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
I know there's a lot of comparisons made with places like Arlington to places in the Sunbelt, but it really isn't really comparable. The inner beltway suburbs of NOVA are more like Northern NJ than most places IMO.
Downtown Silver Spring, MD
Census Tract 7026.03, Montgomery County, Maryland Population Density: 50,694.5
Total Population: 2,186
Land Area (sq mi): 0.0
Census Tract 7025.01, Montgomery County, Maryland Population Density: 31,991.2
Total Population: 4,116
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Census Tract 7026.04, Montgomery County, Maryland Population Density: 31,220.9
Total Population: 2,821
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Census Tract 7025.03, Montgomery County, Maryland Population Density: 25,452.3
Total Population: 4,014
Land Area (sq mi): 0.2
Downtown Bethesda, MD
Census Tract 7048.06, Montgomery County, Maryland Population Density: 28,793.0
Total Population: 4,531
Land Area (sq mi): 0.2
Census Tract 7048.05, Montgomery County, Maryland Population Density: 22,441.1
Total Population: 2,679
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Census Tract 7048.03, Montgomery County, Maryland Population Density: 18,343.8
Total Population: 4,318
Land Area (sq mi): 0.2
Friendship Heights Village, MD (Chevy Chase)
Census Tract 7056.02, Montgomery County, Maryland (24031705602) Population Density: 56,635.6
Total Population: 4,965
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Midtown- Atlanta, GA (Atlanta's nodes clearly impress more than the Texas duo.)
Census Tract 12.06, Fulton County, Georgia
Population Density: 54,888.9
Total Population: 4,296
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Census Tract 11.01, Fulton County, Georgia Population Density: 43,440.0
Total Population: 3,523
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Census Tract 11.02, Fulton County, Georgia Population Density: 37,628.4
Total Population: 3,997
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Downtown- Atlanta, GA
Tough one to track, gave this to DT ATL because the tract doesn't go above North Ave.
Census Tract 19.01 Fulton County, Georgia Population Density: 40,197.8
Total Population: 2,227
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Census Tract 28.01, Fulton County, Georgia Population Density: 34,885.9
Total Population: 4,441
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Census Tract 28.02 Fulton County, Georgia Population Density: 21,432.0
Total Population: 3,462
Land Area (sq mi): 0.2
Buckhead, Atlanta, GA
Census Tract 100.06, Fulton County, Georgia Population Density: 18,057.6
Total Population: 4,688
Land Area (sq mi): 0.3
Census Tract 96.07, Fulton County, Georgia Population Density: 16,760.0
Total Population: 4,709
Land Area (sq mi): 0.3
Census Tract 95.03, Fulton County, Georgia Population Density: 15,360.2
Total Population: 2,010
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Downtown- Dallas, TX
Census Tract 31.03, Dallas County, Texas Population Density: 12,686.0
Total Population: 2,508
Land Area (sq mi): 0.2
Census Tract 17.05, Dallas County, Texas Population Density: 8,570.8
Total Population: 3,113
Land Area (sq mi): 0.4
Census Tract 31.02, Dallas County, Texas Population Density: 7,156.5
Total Population: 1,286
Land Area (sq mi): 0.2
Uptown- Dallas, TX
Census Tract 18.01, Dallas County, Texas Population Density: 29,535.8
Total Population: 2,763
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Census Tract 7.04, Dallas County, Texas Population Density: 22,089.4
Total Population: 2,971
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Census Tract 18.02, Dallas County, Texas Population Density: 18,676.0
Total Population: 3,390
Land Area (sq mi): 0.2
Downtown Houston, TX
Census Tract 9802, Harris County, Texas Population Density: 32,431.1
Total Population: 8,296
Land Area (sq mi): 0.3
Census Tract 1000.01, Harris County, Texas Population Density: 6,644.7
Total Population: 6,543
Land Area (sq mi): 1.0
Census Tract 9807, Harris County, Texas Population Density: 4,742.2
Total Population: 2,299
Land Area (sq mi): 0.5
Uptown- Houston, TX (I really searched for these Uptown and added Greenway/Upper Kirby's most dense tracts.)
Census Tract 4318.03, Harris County, Texas Population Density: 19,784.5
Total Population: 2,597
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Greenway/Upper Kirby
Census Tract 4115.07, Harris County, Texas Population Density: 17,837.2
Total Population: 2,093
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Census Tract 4115.06, Harris County, Texas Population Density: 15,715.0
Total Population: 2,273
Land Area (sq mi): 0.1
Last edited by the resident09; 10-24-2021 at 09:26 PM..
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