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View Poll Results: Premier city of the Great Lakes Region?
Chicago and its entire extended area Greater Chicago/Chicagoland 86 60.14%
Toronto and its entire extended area the Greater Golden Horseshoe 40 27.97%
Tie 17 11.89%
Voters: 143. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-11-2015, 04:29 PM
 
6,840 posts, read 10,878,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post

FOR COMPARISONS....

Chicago:
Chicago 1970: 7,882,640
Chicago 2014: 9,554,598

Total change in 44 years: + 1,671,958

Boston:
Boston 1970: 3,919,024
Boston 2014: 4,732,161

Total change in 44 years: + 813,137

-- Average Annual Growth over 44 year period: + 18,481 people per year growth annually per year for 44 years

Philadelphia:
Philadelphia 1970: 5,323,603
Philadelphia 2014: 6,051,170

Total change in 44 years: + 727,567

-- Average Annual Growth over 44 year period: 16,536 people per year growth annually per year for 44 years
I recognize this e-handwriting anywhere and the reason it looks familiar is because I think it is my own data. This is my data, I'm almost 110% sure of it that this is data that I compiled. It has the exact style of the way I write and the way I view empirical data.

Let me see if I can find it;

http://www.city-data.com/forum/40872126-post2076.html

Found it. I knew it was my own data.

As for the data, Boston actually grew faster than Chicago as a percentage and for its size. I'm not really shocked by Chicago growth in raw numbers outpacing Philadelphia, all the same criticisms that I have for Chicago also apply to Philadelphia (and in most cases, apply to Philadelphia even more), another city that I think could work on improving its essential qualities. Anyhow, it doesn't matter to me, I've never lived in Philadelphia so for me it doesn't matter how it is doing. It was never my city to begin with. Chicago was, so I'm more into what's going on there.

Anyhow, if your point was to project Chicago as if it wasn't the slowest grower of the last 50 years, then I agree it is not but that has definitely changed quite a bit this decade 2010-2014. Like I mentioned, the data is my own, meaning I know full well which cities Chicago has beaten in the last 50 years and which cities its trailed. I know full well that Chicago overall beat a number of other large cities in population growth -- I know that, I've always known that.

I also did an entire thread on PCSAs using the same concept for growth. http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-...70-2014-a.html

Here's that data.

1970:
01. New York (CSA): 20,279,835
02. Los Angeles (CSA): 9,980,861
03. Chicago (CSA): 8,240,189
04. Boston (CSA): 6,468,458
05. Philadelphia (CSA): 6,057,848
06. Washington DC-Baltimore (CSA): 5,651,833
07. Detroit (CSA): 5,315,909
08. San Francisco Bay Area (CSA): 5,063,665
09. Cleveland (CSA): 3,694,544
10. Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex (CSA): 2,664,901
11. Saint Louis (CSA): 2,597,221
12. Miami/Fort Lauderdale (CSA): 2,362,981
13. Minneapolis/Saint Paul (CSA): 2,300,116
14. Houston (CSA): 2,283,644
15. Seattle (CSA): 2,161,352
16. Atlanta (CSA): 2,146,086
17. Tampa Bay Area (FL DOF): 1,570,792
18. Portland (CSA): 1,462,942
19. San Diego (MSA): 1,357,854
20. Denver (CSA): 1,339,749
21. Phoenix (MSA): 1,039,807
22. Orlando (CSA): 711,355

1980:
01. New York (CSA): 19,764,034
02. Los Angeles (CSA): 11,497,549
03. Chicago (CSA): 8,421,707
04. Boston (CSA): 6,664,819
05. Washington DC-Baltimore (CSA): 6,085,090
06. Philadelphia (CSA): 6,059,759
07. San Francisco Bay Area (CSA): 5,740,247
08. Detroit (CSA): 5,293,161
09. Cleveland (CSA): 3,561,575
10. Miami/Fort Lauderdale (CSA): 3,451,876
11. Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex (CSA): 3,309,484
12. Houston (CSA): 3,254,408
13. Atlanta (CSA): 2,691,169
14. Saint Louis (CSA): 2,571,662
15. Seattle (CSA): 2,560,096
16. Minneapolis/Saint Paul (CSA): 2,503,343
17. Tampa Bay Area (FL DOF): 2,340,651
18. San Diego (MSA): 1,861,846
19. Portland (CSA): 1,828,691
20. Denver (CSA): 1,763,831
21. Phoenix (MSA): 1,600,093
22. Orlando (CSA): 1,098,723

1990:
01. New York (CSA): 20,510,198
02. Los Angeles (CSA): 14,531,529
03. Chicago (CSA): 8,533,591
04. Boston (CSA): 7,109,139
05. Washington DC-Baltimore (CSA): 7,061,499
06. San Francisco Bay Area (CSA): 6,794,848
07. Philadelphia (CSA): 6,340,535
08. Detroit (CSA): 5,187,171
09. Miami/Fort Lauderdale (CSA): 4,427,134
10. Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex (CSA): 4,329,020
11. Houston (CSA): 3,882,169
12. Atlanta (CSA): 3,494,036
13. Cleveland (CSA): 3,470,877
14. Seattle (CSA): 3,147,544
15. Tampa Bay Area (FL DOF): 3,056,337
16. Minneapolis/Saint Paul (CSA): 2,866,463
17. Saint Louis (CSA): 2,650,805
18. San Diego (MSA): 2,498,016
19. Phoenix (MSA): 2,238,498
20. Portland (CSA): 2,045,922
21. Denver (CSA): 2,007,649
22. Orlando (CSA): 1,655,859

2000:
01. New York (CSA): 22,240,969
02. Los Angeles (CSA): 16,373,645
03. Chicago (CSA): 9,465,353
04. Washington DC-Baltimore (CSA): 7,981,257
05. San Francisco Bay Area (CSA): 7,656,194
06. Boston (CSA): 7,630,016
07. Philadelphia (CSA): 6,688,798
08. Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex (CSA): 5,565,005
09. Miami/Fort Lauderdale (CSA): 5,475,847
10. Detroit (CSA): 5,456,428
11. Houston (CSA): 4,842,312
12. Atlanta (CSA): 4,778,990
13. Seattle (CSA): 3,775,744
14. Tampa Bay Area (FL DOF): 3,587,965
15. Cleveland (CSA): 3,582,717
16. Phoenix (MSA): 3,251,876
17. Minneapolis/Saint Paul (CSA): 3,335,000
18. San Diego (MSA): 2,813,833
19. Saint Louis (CSA): 2,772,675
20. Denver (CSA): 2,629,980
21. Portland (CSA): 2,549,265
22. Orlando (CSA): 2,191,081

2010:
01. New York (CSA): 23,076,664
02. Los Angeles (CSA): 17,877,006
03. Chicago (CSA): 9,840,929
04. Washington DC-Baltimore (CSA): 9,051,961
05. San Francisco Bay Area (CSA): 8,153,696
06. Boston (CSA): 7,893,376
07. Philadelphia (CSA): 7,067,807
08. Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex (CSA): 6,817,483
09. Miami/Fort Lauderdale (CSA): 6,166,766
10. Houston (CSA): 6,114,562
11. Atlanta (CSA): 5,910,296
12. Detroit (CSA): 5,318,744
13. Seattle (CSA): 4,274,767
14. Tampa Bay Area (FL DOF): 4,228,855
15. Phoenix (MSA): 4,192,887
16. Minneapolis/Saint Paul (CSA): 3,684,928
17. Cleveland (CSA): 3,515,646
18. San Diego (MSA): 3,095,313
19. Denver (CSA): 3,090,874
20. Portland (CSA): 2,921,408
21. Saint Louis (CSA): 2,892,497
22. Orlando (CSA): 2,818,120

2014:
01. New York (CSA): 23,632,722
02. Los Angeles (CSA): 18,550,288
03. Chicago (CSA): 9,928,312
04. Washington DC-Baltimore (CSA): 9,546,579
05. San Francisco Bay Area (CSA): 8,607,423
06. Boston (CSA): 8,099,575
07. Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex (CSA): 7,352,613
08. Philadelphia (CSA): 7,164,790
09. Houston (CSA): 6,686,318
10. Miami/Fort Lauderdale (CSA): 6,558,143
11. Atlanta (CSA): 6,258,875
12. Detroit (CSA): 5,315,251
13. Seattle (CSA): 4,526,991
14. Phoenix (MSA): 4,489,109
15. Tampa Bay Area (FL DOF): 4,438,305
16. Minneapolis/Saint Paul (CSA): 3,835,050
17. Cleveland (CSA): 3,497,851
18. Denver (CSA): 3,345,261
19. San Diego (MSA): 3,263,431
20. Portland (CSA): 3,060,078
21. Orlando (CSA): 3,045,707
22. Saint Louis (CSA): 2,910,738

1970-2014 Population Change in Raw Numbers:
01. Los Angeles (CSA): + 8,569,427
02. Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex (CSA): + 4,687,712
03. Houston: + 4,402,674
04. Miami/Fort Lauderdale (CSA): + 4,195,162
05. Atlanta (CSA): + 4,112,789
06. Washington DC-Baltimore (CSA): + 3,894,746
07. San Francisco Bay Area (CSA): + 3,543,758
08. Phoenix (CSA): + 3,449,302
09. New York (CSA): + 3,352,887
10. Tampa Bay Area (FL DOF): + 2,867,513
11. Seattle (CSA): + 2,365,639
12. Orlando (CSA): + 2,334,352
13. Denver (CSA): + 2,005,512
14. San Diego (MSA): + 1,905,577
15. Chicago (CSA): + 1,688,123
16. Boston (CSA): + 1,631,117
17. Portland (CSA): + 1,597,136
18. Minneapolis/Saint Paul (CSA): + 1,534,934
19. Philadelphia (CSA): + 1,106,942
20. Saint Louis (CSA): + 313,517
21. Detroit (CSA): -658
22. Cleveland (CSA): -196,693


1970-2014 Population Change in Percentages (with no rounding/curbing):
01. Phoenix (MSA): + 331.725214%
02. Orlando (CSA): + 328.155703%
03. Atlanta (CSA): + 195.479678%
04. Houston (CSA): + 192.791608%
05. Tampa Bay Area (FL DOF): + 182.55205%
06. Miami/Fort Lauderdale (CSA): + 177.536849%
07. Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex (CSA): + 175.905672%
08. Denver (CSA): + 149.693114%
09. San Diego (MSA): + 140.3374%
10. Seattle (CSA): + 109.451815%
11. Portland (CSA): + 109.172886%
12. Los Angeles (CSA): + 85.858595%
13. San Francisco Bay Area (CSA): + 69.984053%
14. Washington DC-Baltimore (CSA): + 68.911201%
15. Minneapolis/Saint Paul (CSA): + 66.732895%
16. Boston (CSA): + 25.216474%
17. Chicago (CSA): + 20.48646%
18. Philadelphia (CSA): + 18.272859%
19. New York (CSA): + 16.533108%
20. Saint Louis (CSA): + 12.071248%
20. Detroit (CSA): -00.012378%
21. Cleveland (CSA): -05.323878%


As you can see, Boston CSA (not MSA but CSA) has basically gone toe-to-toe with Chicago CSA on population growth in the last 44 years. However, I am indeed a raw numbers person, more so than percentages, so your point is a valid one. Chicago beat Boston and Philadelphia in growth the last 44 years (this decade 2010-2014 it isn't beating Boston CSA). I'll count it, whether a place wins by 1 or 1 million, larger growth is larger growth at the end of the day.

By the way sheeps, I would choose Chicago easily over both Boston and Philadelphia for both living in and visiting. I like it a whole lot more than them. It is not even close (I actually wouldn't ever consider living in the other two cities).

That being said, getting back to Chicago versus Toronto. I think both are easily the only candidates in line for being the premier city of the Great Lakes. Currently Chicago is a bit more important and bigger, that is starting to change and change very quickly. Toronto is gaining on Chicago rapidly, in quality of life metrics and standards, its much ahead of Chicago already. In some importance metrics, such as finance, its essentially already caught up to Chicago. Now it just needs to shorten the population gap and match Chicago there, and in my opinion, it will be caught up. I think both cities are more or less in the same tier, a tier that also includes Washington DC and San Francisco Bay Area among North American metropolises and one that includes Randstad and others like it from the rest of the world.

Last edited by Trafalgar Law; 11-11-2015 at 04:58 PM..
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:05 PM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,253,823 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red John View Post
I recognize this e-handwriting anywhere and the reason it looks familiar is because I think it is my own data. This is my data, I'm almost 110% sure of it that this is data that I compiled. It has the exact style of the way I write and the way I view empirical data.

Let me see if I can find it;

http://www.city-data.com/forum/40872126-post2076.html

Found it. I knew it was my own data.

As for the data, Boston actually grew faster than Chicago as a percentage and for its size. I'm not really shocked by Chicago growth in raw numbers outpacing Philadelphia, all the same criticisms that I have for Chicago also apply to Philadelphia (and in most cases, apply to Philadelphia even more), another city that I think could work on improving its essential qualities. Anyhow, it doesn't matter to me, I've never lived in Philadelphia so for me it doesn't matter how it is doing. It was never my city to begin with. Chicago was, so I'm more into what's going on there.

Anyhow, if your point was to project Chicago as if it wasn't the slowest grower of the last 50 years, then I agree it is not but that has definitely changed quite a bit this decade 2010-2014. Like I mentioned, the data is my own, meaning I know full well which cities Chicago has beaten in the last 50 years and which cities its trailed. I know full well that Chicago overall beat a number of other large cities in population growth -- I know that, I've always known that.

I also did an entire thread on PCSAs using the same concept for growth. http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-...70-2014-a.html

Here's that data.

1970:
01. New York (CSA): 20,279,835
02. Los Angeles (CSA): 9,980,861
03. Chicago (CSA): 8,240,189

1980:
01. New York (CSA): 19,764,034
02. Los Angeles (CSA): 11,497,549
03. Chicago (CSA): 8,421,707

1990:
01. New York (CSA): 20,510,198
02. Los Angeles (CSA): 14,531,529
03. Chicago (CSA): 8,533,591

2000:
01. New York (CSA): 22,240,969
02. Los Angeles (CSA): 16,373,645
03. Chicago (CSA): 9,465,353

2010:
01. New York (CSA): 23,076,664
02. Los Angeles (CSA): 17,877,006
03. Chicago (CSA): 9,840,929

2014:
01. New York (CSA): 23,632,722
02. Los Angeles (CSA): 18,550,288
03. Chicago (CSA): 9,928,312

1970-2014 Population Change in Raw Numbers:
01. Los Angeles (CSA): + 8,569,427
02. Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex (CSA): + 4,687,712
03. Houston: + 4,402,674
04. Miami/Fort Lauderdale (CSA): + 4,195,162
05. Atlanta (CSA): + 4,112,789
06. Washington DC-Baltimore (CSA): + 3,894,746
07. San Francisco Bay Area (CSA): + 3,543,758
08. Phoenix (CSA): + 3,449,302
09. New York (CSA): + 3,352,887
10. Tampa Bay Area (FL DOF): + 2,867,513
11. Seattle (CSA): + 2,365,639
12. Orlando (CSA): + 2,334,352
13. Denver (CSA): + 2,005,512
14. San Diego (MSA): + 1,905,577
15. Chicago (CSA): + 1,688,123

1970-2014 Population Change in Percentages (with no rounding/curbing):
01. Phoenix (MSA): + 331.725214%
02. Orlando (CSA): + 328.155703%
03. Atlanta (CSA): + 195.479678%
04. Houston (CSA): + 192.791608%
05. Tampa Bay Area (FL DOF): + 182.55205%
06. Miami/Fort Lauderdale (CSA): + 177.536849%
07. Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex (CSA): + 175.905672%
08. Denver (CSA): + 149.693114%
09. San Diego (MSA): + 140.3374%
10. Seattle (CSA): + 109.451815%
11. Portland (CSA): + 109.172886%
12. Los Angeles (CSA): + 85.858595%
13. San Francisco Bay Area (CSA): + 69.984053%
14. Washington DC-Baltimore (CSA): + 68.911201%
15. Minneapolis/Saint Paul (CSA): + 66.732895%
16. Boston (CSA): + 25.216474%
17. Chicago (CSA): + 20.48646%

As you can see, Boston CSA (not MSA but CSA) has basically gone toe-to-toe with Chicago CSA on population growth in the last 44 years. However, I am indeed a raw numbers person, more so than percentages, so your point is a valid one. Chicago beat Boston and Philadelphia in growth the last 44 years (this decade 2010-2014 it isn't beating Boston CSA). I'll count it, whether a place wins by 1 or 1 million, larger growth is larger growth at the end of the day.

By the way steeps, I would choose Chicago easily over both Boston and Philadelphia for both living in and visiting. I like it a whole lot more than them. It is not even close (I actually wouldn't ever consider living in the other two cities).

That being said, getting back to Chicago versus Toronto. I think both are easily the only candidates in line for being the premier city of the Great Lakes. Currently Chicago is a bit more important and bigger, that is starting to change and change very quickly. Toronto is gaining on Chicago rapidly, in quality of life metrics and standards, its much ahead of Chicago already. In some importance metrics, such as finance, its essentially already caught up to Chicago. Now it just needs to shorten the population gap and match Chicago there, and in my opinion, it will be caught up. I think both cities are more or less in the same tier, a tier that also includes Washington DC and San Francisco Bay Area among North American metropolises and one that includes Randstad and others like it from the rest of the world.
Yes I probably did get the figures from you.... I like to utilize those I come across if needed... Thanks for the reasonable post on Chicago. BUT YOU CAN NOTE.... WE ARE IN A ERA OF THE RISE OF THE SUNBELT... NOT MERELY CALIFORNIA AND FLORIDA. Chicago for most of its history.... was a anomaly in the Midwest and still is more then not. Only Minneapolis had better increases in numbers lately....

But... AS YOUR NUMBERS SHOW AMERICA IS HEADING TO THE SUNBELT ERA. MOST OF THE BIG RISERS ARE SUNBELT CITIES.....

Chicago ALWAYS HAD TO PLAY CATCHUP AND FIGHT FOR PRESTIGE VS. THE COAST. Now it has the whole Sunbelt too.

Toronto is the LARGEST city in a whole nation. It did not experience declines of Northern American cities to catch up. Yes they did have aspects of losing manufacturing too. But NOTHING like the declines of the 60s 70s of American Northern cities.

Whole Downtowns experienced huge closings of retail Streets and seedy areas became common... As I noted. Even Times Square NYC had declines to Prostitution and Sex shops.

Theaters downtown Chicago even showed X-rated films before they closed.... Most would have been Lost.... as a couple were. Even almost the Iconic Chicago Theater.... IF not for Active Preservationist I applaud. They are GREAT LIVE THEATER VENUES today. State St lost ALL its retail and ultimately Marshall Fields Iconic store... But taken over by Macy's preserving it. I applaud them too.

Excuses yes but they are valid truths of the declines of American Urban cores. Canadian cities also have a High-rise living level only NYC and Chicago evolved to. Today other cities like Miami and LA, Seattle. Are building High-rise to Skyscraper living as Chicago never stopped building. But much more prevalent Downtown today. As it was far more along the North Shore in previous Decades.

Chicago is winning the thread poll. Because it STILL maintains the lead.... Of course it is not the US largest city. Or a example of a booming city as that moved café more to the Sunbelt cities and Pacific Northwest. As I said NYC had its terrible 70s decade. That All Northern cities Cores saw.

I never speak against Toronto as I have no reason too. I merely DEFEND Chicago's still status it earned.... as also still my favorite Big city that STILL KEEPS IMPROVING ITS DOWTOWN AND PRESEVING ITS VIBRANT NEIGHBORHOODS and Investing in keeping up infrastructure improvements especially in the gentrifying ones... After all they pay the Big Taxes today.

Chicago's financial state is a issue... Some predict its Death... But Building did not stop or new Projects continue to get built and planned. Streets get paved, ect. Most totally spew at the city by their EXTREME political hatred to the other side....

Stereotypes the city ALWAYS HAD. Gang violence and soon the Chirac move being released.... not sure what further damage that will give the whole city....

But anyway.. I'm done. Just saw financial issues do not erase the city's still status and improvement in Tourism and continued increasing vibrancy in its Core. It still holds on to that and won't go to pot or fall. Without a fight. It would not be wise in a worst case scenario.... to have the city make massive cuts like to police.... knowing what happened when NYC did as a result of dire financial issues...
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:19 PM
 
Location: C.R. K-T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red John View Post
Toronto is, in my personal opinion, the best match up for Chicago in North America and possibly the world. I also feel the reverse to be true too, Chicago is the best match up for Toronto in both North America and possibly the world.
Cleveland would be a better partner. They are both E-W metros (Chicagoland is N-S) and are on adjacent lakes on the opposite shores. Without the immigrant magnet that Toronto is and the international border, both cities would be in the same region and probably be have roughly the same metro populations and the same economic stagnation of the Rust Belt.

The Canadas are the equivalent to the East Coast megalopolis because of the lack of the freedom of movement for people and the international border. I suspect that the Windsor-Québec City corridor would not exist if not for Canada being a separate country and that economic activity east of the Rockies would be consolidated on the U.S. East Coast megapolis if not for the American Revolution.

P.S. Lake Michigan is my favorite Great Lake because it is where Chicago is located on and it is the only lake to be wholly in one country. Poor Canada has to share lakes while the U.S. gets its own! (Even the world-famous Horseshoe Falls is half-American.)
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Old 11-12-2015, 12:44 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
9,598 posts, read 9,189,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KerrTown View Post
Cleveland would be a better partner. They are both E-W metros (Chicagoland is N-S) and are on adjacent lakes on the opposite shores. Without the immigrant magnet that Toronto is and the international border, both cities would be in the same region and probably be have roughly the same metro populations and the same economic stagnation of the Rust Belt.
Ok!


Quote:
P.S. Lake Michigan is my favorite Great Lake because it is where Chicago is located on and it is the only lake to be wholly in one country. Poor Canada has to share lakes while the U.S. gets its own! (Even the world-famous Horseshoe Falls is half-American.)
I can't.
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Old 11-12-2015, 06:58 PM
 
1,669 posts, read 4,223,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KerrTown View Post
Cleveland would be a better partner. They are both E-W metros (Chicagoland is N-S) and are on adjacent lakes on the opposite shores. Without the immigrant magnet that Toronto is and the international border, both cities would be in the same region and probably be have roughly the same metro populations and the same economic stagnation of the Rust Belt.

The Canadas are the equivalent to the East Coast megalopolis because of the lack of the freedom of movement for people and the international border. I suspect that the Windsor-Québec City corridor would not exist if not for Canada being a separate country and that economic activity east of the Rockies would be consolidated on the U.S. East Coast megapolis if not for the American Revolution.

P.S. Lake Michigan is my favorite Great Lake because it is where Chicago is located on and it is the only lake to be wholly in one country. Poor Canada has to share lakes while the U.S. gets its own! (Even the world-famous Horseshoe Falls is half-American.)
Except Toronto is several times larger than Cleveland...

I'm pretty sure the Horseshoe falls are entirely within Canada's borders. The smaller American Falls are in the U.S., hence the name American Falls.
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Old 11-12-2015, 11:17 PM
 
2,434 posts, read 3,307,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticman View Post
Except Toronto is several times larger than Cleveland...

I'm pretty sure the Horseshoe falls are entirely within Canada's borders. The smaller American Falls are in the U.S., hence the name American Falls.
yet Toronto is not as large as Rochester+Buffalo+Cleveland+Toledo+Detroit.....not to mention Chicago, Milwaukee, Grand Rapids,Green Bay, Duluth...

Point being that the "Premier" City of the Great Lakes is well...on the Southern Shores of said lakes. The condo explosion to the North is a bit of a mirage....a way to store money/assets for largely Chinese/etc. "new Canadians"....Chicago is where the Great Lakes connects to the greatest Inland Water System in the World. It maintains its status as the nexus of the North American economy via rail/highways. There is 0% chance Toronto will ever be as central as Chicago.

Last edited by midwest1; 11-12-2015 at 11:31 PM..
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Old 11-13-2015, 12:46 AM
 
Location: C.R. K-T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Metro Toronto is majority white; Metro Chicago is majority nonwhite. And the difference is even greater comparing city to city. So, yeah, I think that if "diversity" is measured by actual presence of races/ethnicity, it can be argued that Chicago is more diverse than Toronto. Toronto is certainly whiter and has a dominant ethnicity; Chicago not so much.

Toronto, though, has far more immigration, and has a much greater presence of newcomers, and a much more visible "salad bowl" approach.
Keep in mind that Canada's whites are majority British, while America's whites are majority German since the early 19th-century.
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Old 11-13-2015, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,756 posts, read 37,644,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KerrTown View Post
Keep in mind that Canada's whites are majority British, while America's whites are majority German since the early 19th-century.
I think this is probably inaccurate for both countries.

Pluralities maybe. And even so...
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Old 11-13-2015, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Windsor Ontario/Colchester Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midwest1 View Post
yet Toronto is not as large as Rochester+Buffalo+Cleveland+Toledo+Detroit.....not to mention Chicago, Milwaukee, Grand Rapids,Green Bay, Duluth...

Point being that the "Premier" City of the Great Lakes is well...on the Southern Shores of said lakes. The condo explosion to the North is a bit of a mirage....a way to store money/assets for largely Chinese/etc. "new Canadians"....Chicago is where the Great Lakes connects to the greatest Inland Water System in the World. It maintains its status as the nexus of the North American economy via rail/highways. There is 0% chance Toronto will ever be as central as Chicago.
Stop talking, it makes you sound stupid!
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Old 11-13-2015, 12:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by KerrTown View Post
Keep in mind that Canada's whites are majority British, while America's whites are majority German since the early 19th-century.
That's not true. Much of the South's white population is Scotch-Irish.
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