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But this is still refusing to give credit where credit is due.
1) There aren't "a ton" more hospitals just inside the Philly city limits (name them...)
2) Yes, Philly city limits are 300 sq mi smaller than Houston's, but Philly is also 3x denser and is built for foot/transit whereas Houston is built for the car, so "size" doesn't matter, it's all about concentration of people and it's simply more concentrated in Philly so it would make sense that its major hospitals are geographically closer together than those in Houston. It doesn't make Philly "more impressive" in that regard, it just reiterates why most people, myself included, heavily prefer Philly - it's denser/walkable/more urban!
It also reinforces the fact that due to its constrained size, there is a natural built in benefit to Philly's institutions for being there as they are all naturally so close to each other.
In Houston, there was never a density to force this, so it's a wonder that TMC even sprung up like it did. It makes perfect sense that all these hospitals and institutions of research/healthcare would want to be so concentrated like that. They are even more concentrated in TMC than they are in NYC, Boston, or Philly!
4617 beds for the bulk of Philly's hospitals (premier hospitals nonetheless) is still significantly shy of 7000 beds for TMC. That's the difference in size between metro Philly and metro Chicago. Or between Minneapolis and Charlotte. And don't fail to factor in that Houston also has several other huge highly acclaimed hospitals for its citizens spread around the metro. Systems like Memorial Hermann have 400-700 bed hospitals outside of its flagship at TMC.
I'm not refusing to give credit where credit is due at all... in fact, I think you are. TMC is a nice medical center and it's large, but large does not equal quality. It's really just a conglomeration medical and healthcare institutes. It is definitely one of the largest, if not THE largest healthcare/medical campus in the country, but it's hospitals aren't necessarily top notch. Philadelphia has a ton of medical institutions, they're just more spread out throughout the city and the region than Houston.
I only named the top medical institutions in Philly:
Einstein Medical Center: 637 beds
Aria Health : 485 beds
St. Joseph's Hospital: 315 beds
VA Medical Center: 280 beds
Fairmount Health System: 239 beds
Nazareth Hospital: 231 beds
Friends Hospital: 192 beds
Fox Chase Cancer Center: 164 beds
Girard Medical Center: 163 beds
Jeanes Hospital: 160 beds
Belmont Center: 147 beds
Roxborough Memorial Hospital: 140 beds
Chestnut Hill Hospital: 135 beds
Kindred Hospital: 110 beds
Magee Center: 106 beds
Total: 3,504
Combining the two, we're looking at 8,121 hospital beds (not including any smaller hospitals under 100 beds). That's all within 134 square miles. I know there are other hospitals in Houston, but Houston is 634 square miles. LITERALLY 500 square miles larger than Philadelphia. Which means to not include hospitals just outside the city limits for Philadelphia would be a definite unfair comparison. It would literally be apples to oranges.
Let's look at other large medical centers/hospitals just outside of the Philadelphia city limits:
Abington Memorial Hospital: 621 beds
Cooper Hospital: 489 beds
Kennedy Hospital: 483 beds
Crozer-Chester Medical Center: 472 beds
Virtua Voorhees: 398 beds
Norristown State Hospital: 394 beds
Mercy Catholic Medical Center: 391 beds
Our Lady of Lourdes Medical Center: 350 beds
Lankenau Medical Center: 339 beds
Virtua Memorial: 325 beds
St. Mary Medical Center: 320 beds
Bryn Mawr Hospital: 319 beds
Holy Redeemer Hospital: 250 beds
Inspira Medical Center: 240 beds
Delaware County Memorial Hospital: 209 beds
Riddle Hospital: 204 beds
Virtua Marlton: 192 beds
Lourdes Medical Center: 154 beds
Lower Bucks Hospital: 150 beds
Bryn Mawr Rehabilitation Center: 148 beds
Einstein Medical Center Montgomery: 146 beds
Brook Glen Behavioral Hospital: 146 beds
Horsham Clinic: 138 beds
Mercy Suburban Hospital: 126 beds
Hampton Health Center: 110 beds
Total: 7,114
Now, in total, we're looking at 15,235 total hospital beds in what would be the equivalent to the square mileage of Houston. That's a lot.
Again, I'm not downplaying the size of the medical center, it's just two completely different built regions and different hospitals which didn't conglomerate together and don't share one large center/campus.
Lastly, if we take a look at hospital rankings, Philadelphia has two top ranking hospitals:
It's really a matter of size vs. quality, and Philadelphia is just seen as a better medical city. Going by the rankings, Philadelphia, Boston, Los Angeles, NYC, San Francisco, would rank above Houston in medical.
So Houston and Philly both have top 5 children's hospitals (that's like saying Harvard has the 2 business school and Penn has the 4, so Harvard must be wayyyy better than Penn ). Also, MD Anderson is the #1 cancer hospital in the US. I'm not even going to spend time on this (I'm sure the same or other Houston/Philly hospitals also rank highly otherwise), but Houston is roughly equivalent to all of those cities when it comes to quality of care, and just so happens to have the largest single conglomeration of hospitals/treatment centers in the world.
Now if you want to argue that Philadelphia has a larger biotech and pharma sector presence and supports more R&D overall, privately, and publicly, you'll get no argument from me. But to say that somehow Philadelphia is in some league of its own compared to Houston when it comes to critical care or treatment is a farce.
My initial post has always been that they are roughly equivalent. Somehow now we got into an argument that TMC really isn't all that large or special, bla bla bla, and you are still working freakishly hard to prop Philly up so much higher than Houston in an area they are fairly equivalent in.
I'm not refusing to give credit where credit is due at all... in fact, I think you are. TMC is a nice medical center and it's large, but large does not equal quality. It's really just a conglomeration medical and healthcare institutes. It is definitely one of the largest, if not THE largest healthcare/medical campus in the country, but it's hospitals aren't necessarily top notch. Philadelphia has a ton of medical institutions, they're just more spread out throughout the city and the region than Houston.
I only named the top medical institutions in Philly:
Einstein Medical Center: 637 beds
Aria Health : 485 beds
St. Joseph's Hospital: 315 beds
VA Medical Center: 280 beds
Fairmount Health System: 239 beds
Nazareth Hospital: 231 beds
Friends Hospital: 192 beds
Fox Chase Cancer Center: 164 beds
Girard Medical Center: 163 beds
Jeanes Hospital: 160 beds
Belmont Center: 147 beds
Roxborough Memorial Hospital: 140 beds
Chestnut Hill Hospital: 135 beds
Kindred Hospital: 110 beds
Magee Center: 106 beds
Total: 3,504
Combining the two, we're looking at 8,121 hospital beds (not including any smaller hospitals under 100 beds). That's all within 134 square miles. I know there are other hospitals in Houston, but Houston is 634 square miles. LITERALLY 500 square miles larger than Philadelphia. Which means to not include hospitals just outside the city limits for Philadelphia would be a definite unfair comparison. It would literally be apples to oranges.
Let's look at other large medical centers/hospitals just outside of the Philadelphia city limits:
Abington Memorial Hospital: 621 beds
Cooper Hospital: 489 beds
Kennedy Hospital: 483 beds
Crozer-Chester Medical Center: 472 beds
Virtua Voorhees: 398 beds
Norristown State Hospital: 394 beds
Mercy Catholic Medical Center: 391 beds
Our Lady of Lourdes Medical Center: 350 beds
Lankenau Medical Center: 339 beds
Virtua Memorial: 325 beds
St. Mary Medical Center: 320 beds
Bryn Mawr Hospital: 319 beds
Holy Redeemer Hospital: 250 beds
Inspira Medical Center: 240 beds
Delaware County Memorial Hospital: 209 beds
Riddle Hospital: 204 beds
Virtua Marlton: 192 beds
Lourdes Medical Center: 154 beds
Lower Bucks Hospital: 150 beds
Bryn Mawr Rehabilitation Center: 148 beds
Einstein Medical Center Montgomery: 146 beds
Brook Glen Behavioral Hospital: 146 beds
Horsham Clinic: 138 beds
Mercy Suburban Hospital: 126 beds
Hampton Health Center: 110 beds
Total: 7,114
Now, in total, we're looking at 15,235 total hospital beds in what would be the equivalent to the square mileage of Houston. That's a lot.
Again, I'm not downplaying the size of the medical center, it's just two completely different built regions and different hospitals which didn't conglomerate together and don't share one large center/campus.
Lastly, if we take a look at hospital rankings, Philadelphia has two top ranking hospitals:
It's really a matter of size vs. quality, and Philadelphia is just seen as a better medical city. Going by the rankings, Philadelphia, Boston, Los Angeles, NYC, San Francisco, would rank above Houston in medical.
You're misreading the data. The honor roll rankings of hospitals means that those hospitals rank highly in at least 6 areas on the grading scale. It does not mean that certain cities are better than others.
Here's how Houston ranked in the top 10 the areas that US News looks at (6 out of 16):
Best Hospital for Cancer Treatment: #1 - MD Anderson, Houston, TX
Best Hospital for Ear, Nose, and Throat: #5 - MD Anderson
Best Hospital for Gastroenterology & GI Surgery: #10 - Houston Methodist
Best Hospital for Gynecology: #7 - MD Anderson
Best Hospital for Psychiatry: #5 - Menninger Clinic
Best Hospital for Rehabilitation: #2 - TIRR Memorial Hermann
Here's Philly (5 out of 16):
Best Hospital for Cardiology: #8 - Penn Presbyterian
Best Hospital for Diabetes & Endocrinology: #10 - Penn Presbyterian
Best Hospital for Ears, Nose, and Throat: #4 - Penn Presbyterian
Best Hospital for Ophthalmology: #2 - Wills Eye
Best Hospital for Pulmonology: #10 - Penn Presbyterian
Looks pretty much even.
Also, the argument for Houston being less dense than Philly usually works out for Philly. However, in this case, it doesn't. Because Philly is more dense, it means that there are gonna be less hospitals, but the hospitals should make up for that by having more beds and more doctors. So expanding the limits of Philly is not useful here; what we should be comparing is number of beds per capita, not city limit size.
Houston and Philly look like they're on pretty equal footing here. I'm not seeing a legitimate argument of Philly being the better option for hospitals in any form.
Also, the argument for Houston being less dense than Philly usually works out for Philly. However, in this case, it doesn't. Because Philly is more dense, it means that there are gonna be less hospitals, but the hospitals should make up for that by having more beds and more doctors. So expanding the limits of Philly is not useful here; what we should be comparing is number of beds per capita, not city limit size.
Houston and Philly look like they're on pretty equal footing here. I'm not seeing a legitimate argument of Philly being the better option for hospitals in any form.
City limits only. Philadelphia = 134 square miles and Houston = 634 square miles. Over 100 beds only.
Philadelphia Penn Medicine: 1,712 beds
Jefferson: 957 beds
Temple: 800 beds
Einstein Medical Center: 637 beds
Hahnemann: 618 beds
CHOP: 530 beds
Aria Health : 485 beds
St. Joseph's Hospital: 315 beds
VA Medical Center: 280 beds
Fairmount Health System: 239 beds
Nazareth Hospital: 231 beds
Friends Hospital: 192 beds
Fox Chase Cancer Center: 164 beds
Girard Medical Center: 163 beds
Jeanes Hospital: 160 beds
Belmont Center: 147 beds
Roxborough Memorial Hospital: 140 beds
Chestnut Hill Hospital: 135 beds
Kindred Hospital: 110 beds
Magee Center: 106 beds
Total: 8,121
Houston
Memorial Hermann Northwest Complex: 1180 beds
Memorial Hermann Medical Center - 897 beds
Houston Methodist Hospital: 839 beds
Harris County Hospital: 813 beds
Baylor St. Luke's Medical Hospital: 690 beds
MD Anderson Cancer Center: 631 beds
DeBakey VA Medical Center: 479 beds
St. Joseph Hospital: 384 beds
Memorial Hermann City Medical Center: 383
Women's Hospital of Texas: 367 beds
Houston Northwest Medical Center: 339 beds
Select Specialty Hospital: 300 beds
Kindred Hospital North Houston: 288 beds
Houston Methodist Willowbrook Hospital: 241 beds
West Houston Medical Center: 238 beds
Park Plaza Hospital: 208 beds
Cypress Fairbanks Medical Center: 181 beds
University of Texas Harris County: 181 beds
West Oaks Hospital: 144 beds
Houston Methodist West Hospital: 126 beds
TIRR Memorial Hermann: 119 beds
Menninger Clinic: 102 beds
Kindred Hospital Houston: 105 beds
Total: 9,235
Sooo, 500 more square miles and only ~1,100 more beds. That's 60 beds per square mile in Philadelphia. And that's 14 beds per square mile in Houston.
With a population of 2,239,558 in Houston, that's 1 bed for every 242 people.
With a population of 1,560,297 in Philadelphia, that's 1 bed for every 192 people.
^^^Wow. You're really looking at this in a weird way. And you really won't give this up. I guess no peep out of Kidphilly on his bogus statistics.
I'm almost wanting to show a screen shot that I voted for Philadelphia here. And in another recent thread. I'm on Philadelphia's side. But you posters are something else. Logic defies.
You're misreading the data. The honor roll rankings of hospitals means that those hospitals rank highly in at least 6 areas on the grading scale. It does not mean that certain cities are better than others.
Here's how Houston ranked in the top 10 the areas that US News looks at (6 out of 16):
Best Hospital for Cancer Treatment: #1 - MD Anderson, Houston, TX
Best Hospital for Ear, Nose, and Throat: #5 - MD Anderson
Best Hospital for Gastroenterology & GI Surgery: #10 - Houston Methodist
Best Hospital for Gynecology: #7 - MD Anderson
Best Hospital for Psychiatry: #5 - Menninger Clinic
Best Hospital for Rehabilitation: #2 - TIRR Memorial Hermann
Here's Philly (5 out of 16):
Best Hospital for Cardiology: #8 - Penn Presbyterian
Best Hospital for Diabetes & Endocrinology: #10 - Penn Presbyterian
Best Hospital for Ears, Nose, and Throat: #4 - Penn Presbyterian
Best Hospital for Ophthalmology: #2 - Wills Eye
Best Hospital for Pulmonology: #10 - Penn Presbyterian
Looks pretty much even.
10? I see 16 rankings by US News
For Adults Cancer
#1 MD Anderson, Houston
#11 UPenn, Philly
Cardiology and Heart
#8 UPenn, Philly
#17 Baylor St. Lukes, Houston
Diabetes and Endocrinology
#10 UPenn, Philly
#19 Baylor St. Lukes, Houston
Ear, Nose and Throat
#4 UPenn, Philly
#5 MD Anderson, Houston
Gastroenterology and GI
#10 Houston Methodist, Houston
#13 UPenn, Philly
Out of the 16 rankings, Philadelphia has a top hospital in 15 of them. Houston has a top hospital in 10 of them. Philadelphia ranks above Houston in 11 out of the 16 rankings. Houston ranks above Philadelphia in 4 out of the 16 rankings.
For Children Cancer #3 Children's Hospital, Philly
#4 Texas Children's Hospital, Houston
Out of the 10 Children's Hospital rankings, Philadelphia has a top hospital that ranks in all 10. Houston has a top hospital that ranks in 8. Philadelphia even has two top hospitals that rank under Orthopedics. Philadelphia ranks above Houston in 6 out of the 10 rankings. Houston ranks above Philadelphia in 4 out of the 10 rankings.
When combined: Philadelphia has 25 rankings, and ranks ahead of Houston 17 times
Houston has 18 rankings, and ranks ahead of Philadelphia 8 times
So yeah, I would definitely rank Philadelphia ahead of Houston in the Medical/Healthcare industry.
^^^Wow. You're really looking at this in a weird way. And you really won't give this up. I guess no peep out of Kidphilly on his bogus statistics.
I'm almost wanting to show a screen shot that I voted for Philadelphia here. And in another recent thread. I'm on Philadelphia's side. But you posters are something else. Logic defies.
I don't get why you think Houston is better in Medical/healthcare than Philly. It's really not. TMC is massive, but that's it. Philadelphia hospitals rank higher, and rank more often, and there are more beds per person in Philadelphia. It's that simple really.
This website has devolved into debating about hospital beds in the name of city superiority.
I think we all need to step away from the keyboard for awhile.
Philadelphia has the better reputation for being a medical city, and thats basically where im leaving that.
Haha, the debate over hospital beds has been fierce! I will say I appreciate how much people stand up for their cities on this forum!
But like I said earlier, both cities sound like they have impressive medical facilities. Houston's TMC is massive and Philly sounds like it has some hospitals to be reckoned with. It doesn't need to be a competition. Personally, I think I'd fair just fine in either city as a nurse and that is very pleasing to me.
I would still love and appreciate any input people who may not have yet posted have about Houston vs Philadelphia. I feel the need to restate my original questions so-
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXNgal
So for Houston, TX vs Philadelphia, PA I'm looking for your opinion...
-Which is the most diverse in terms of race? I like an area to be so diverse, I can't tell what the majority is.
-Which has the most crime?
-Which has the best Universities? Good community colleges?
-Which has the best housing, or in my case, selection for apartments? (In other words, is the cost worth what you get or can I expect to pay $1300 for a studio apartment like I saw in DC...)
-Which has the best nightlife?
-Which has the best weather?
-Which is the nicer looking city?
-Which has more things to do (museums, attractions, etc)?
-Which, do you think, would be the better city for a single female, nurse, in her mid-20's?
Again, thanks to everyone who's given me great info! Philadelphia is looking promising.
This hospital bed debate is a new low for C-D. lol
But my vote goes to H-Town!
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). Also, MD Anderson is the #1 cancer hospital in the US. I'm not even going to spend time on this (I'm sure the same or other Houston/Philly hospitals also rank highly otherwise), but Houston is roughly equivalent to all of those cities when it comes to quality of care, and just so happens to have the largest single conglomeration of hospitals/treatment centers in the world.
