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I don't think proximity to other cities is a bad criterion at all. In real life, people do occasionally leave their metro area. Where they're able to go when they leave is a quality-of-life issue. Would you think it's unfair to say one city has a better theater scene than another? Well, most people are taking trips out of town at least as often as they're going to the theater, so why can't you use location to judge a city?
Here's an example for you: I live in the Providence area. Providence is a great small city, but one of the best things about it is that it's so close to Boston. I get the advantages of a smaller city (lower cost of living, less traffic, etc.) but if I feel like it, I can be in Boston and use its big-city amenities in an hour. I do it all the time. I did it just yesterday -- I woke up, thought, "I need some Boston today," and went. I spent a few hours there, then came home.
I don't think proximity to other cities is a bad criterion at all. In real life, people do occasionally leave their metro area. Where they're able to go when they leave is a quality-of-life issue. Would you think it's unfair to say one city has a better theater scene than another? Well, most people are taking trips out of town at least as often as they're going to the theater, so why can't you use location to judge a city?
Here's an example for you: I live in the Providence area. Providence is a great small city, but one of the best things about it is that it's so close to Boston. I get the advantages of a smaller city (lower cost of living, less traffic, etc.) but if I feel like it, I can be in Boston and use its big-city amenities in an hour. I do it all the time. I did it just yesterday -- I woke up, thought, "I need some Boston today," and went. I spent a few hours there, then came home.
Honestly, it depends on how often you visit that other city, as well as the difference of cost-of-living. If you're spending $500/mo in housing costs for proximity to a city you visit 2-3 times a year, you aren't truly benefitting from that proximity.
This is a tough one. I'm not going to vote because I love both cities. Ironically Minneapolis (actually St. Paul, which I actually prefer) and Pittsburgh were my final two contenders when I was trying to determine where to "start over" in my life in 2010 after a quarter-life crisis in the DC Metro Area. I chose Pittsburgh because it had a lower cost-of-living (making it easier to start over, even with a paltry wage/salary); less harsh winters (for as amazing as MSP is I don't know if many people will ever be able to say they don't mind -30-degree wind chills); and better geographical proximity to other interesting larger cities whereas MSP is only somewhat close to Milwaukee, Madison, Chicago, and Des Moines.
Both cities have incredible historic architecture; a very literate population; a very socially liberal population (important for me as a gay man who faced homophobia growing up in a more rural area); gorgeous skylines; four distinct seasons; diverse economies (BOTH metro areas have STRATIFIED economies, albeit MSP probably has the edge now with overall employment and wage growth); ample large urban parks and green space/greenbelts; manageable traffic congestion; and cultural amenities too numerous to mention.
I like being able to hop into the car and day-trip to Erie, Cleveland, and the Laurel Highlands or take a weekend getaway to Cincinnati, Detroit, Philadelphia, DC, Baltimore, NYC, Buffalo/Niagara Falls, or Toronto. I don't really like to fly, so while MSP has the better airport it would be useless for someone who likes to drive places, and even then MSP isn't THAT much closer to Chicago than Pittsburgh is--just a couple of hours.
The suggested criteria?
Restaurants: Minneapolis/St. Paul (albeit Pittsburgh's "foodie" scene has grown incredibly just since I moved here in 2010).
Shopping: Minneapolis/St. Paul (our "mall of all malls" locally is the Ross Park Mall with Nordstrom, Swarovski, Gucci, Tesla, etc.; however, nothing really compares to the Mall of America).
Nightlife: TIE (compare our East Carson Street or Cultural District to any thriving nightlife destination in the Twin Cities, such as Uptown Minneapolis, and you'll find them just about evenly-matched in terms of variety of offerings, crowds, liveliness, etc.)
Economy: TIE (both metro areas are home to a commanding number of Fortune 1000 companies relative to their populations and BOTH metro areas have very diversified economies that are resilient to economic downturns).
Cost of Living: Pittsburgh (I rent a 1-BR apartment for $700/month in a safe hip neighborhood within walking distance of Downtown. Can you say the same in MSP? Can you buy a livable home in a safe neighborhood in the urban core of MSP for <$100,000? You can here).
Young People: TIE (MSP has a higher "raw numbers" amount of young people, but the overall population is also much higher, so it isn't a fair comparison. A fairer comparison would be percentages, and the PERCENTAGE of young people in Pittsburgh is comparable to the PERCENTAGE of young people in Minneapolis/St. Paul).
Health and Runners: TIE (As recently as when I moved to Pittsburgh in 2010 I would have given the edge to MSP. I now feel as if BOTH are evenly-matched, though. The participation within and spectatorship of the Pittsburgh Marathon is just a step below that of the Boston and NYC Marathons, in my opinion. There's still a lot of obesity here, but that's prevalent in the older generations more than the younger ones these days).
Sports Stadiums: TIE (MSP has additional major-league teams, but it is also a much larger metropolitan area, so it's not fair to go by that. PNC Park (MLB), Heinz Field (NFL), CONSOL Energy Center (NHL), and Highmark Stadium (our one-step-below MLS team) are all modern venues that offer great views, concessions, and amenities. It's disingenuous to say one city's stadiums blows away the others', so this one out of all them SHOULD be a tie unless you're a biased homer).
Things to Do: TIE (I'm honestly not going to list everything, but both PGH and MSP punch well above their weight in terms of attractions, cultural venues, events, etc.)
Eye Candy: TIE (MSP and Pittsburgh have equally-striking skylines, in my opinion. St. Paul doesn't have a good skyline overall, but the architecture throughout almost the entire city is incredibly well-preserved. Do a Google Street View tour starting at the Basilica and then head west down Summit Avenue FOR MILES for a glimpse of what I'm talking about. Hundreds of the homes in the "Chain of Lakes" in SW Minneapolis are striking. Loring Park is an awesome urban oasis, and Uptown Minneapolis is chic, to say the least. Pittsburgh is no slouch, either. Frick Park would rival any urban park in MSP. I'd argue we utilize OUR riverfronts better overall than MSP utilizes its riverfront, although we don't have any lakes, let alone the awesome utilization of the shorelines of those lakes the way MSP does).
P.S. I also wish I knew why Shakeesha hated Pittsburgh so much. She down-votes it in any city-vs.-city comparison she can, even in ones that Pittsburgh SHOULD win.
This is a tough one. I'm not going to vote because I love both cities. Ironically Minneapolis (actually St. Paul, which I actually prefer) and Pittsburgh were my final two contenders when I was trying to determine where to "start over" in my life in 2010 after a quarter-life crisis in the DC Metro Area. I chose Pittsburgh because it had a lower cost-of-living (making it easier to start over, even with a paltry wage/salary); less harsh winters (for as amazing as MSP is I don't know if many people will ever be able to say they don't mind -30-degree wind chills); and better geographical proximity to other interesting larger cities whereas MSP is only somewhat close to Milwaukee, Madison, Chicago, and Des Moines.
Both cities have incredible historic architecture; a very literate population; a very socially liberal population (important for me as a gay man who faced homophobia growing up in a more rural area); gorgeous skylines; four distinct seasons; diverse economies (BOTH metro areas have STRATIFIED economies, albeit MSP probably has the edge now with overall employment and wage growth); ample large urban parks and green space/greenbelts; manageable traffic congestion; and cultural amenities too numerous to mention.
I like being able to hop into the car and day-trip to Erie, Cleveland, and the Laurel Highlands or take a weekend getaway to Cincinnati, Detroit, Philadelphia, DC, Baltimore, NYC, Buffalo/Niagara Falls, or Toronto. I don't really like to fly, so while MSP has the better airport it would be useless for someone who likes to drive places, and even then MSP isn't THAT much closer to Chicago than Pittsburgh is--just a couple of hours.
The suggested criteria?
Restaurants: Minneapolis/St. Paul (albeit Pittsburgh's "foodie" scene has grown incredibly just since I moved here in 2010).
Shopping: Minneapolis/St. Paul (our "mall of all malls" locally is the Ross Park Mall with Nordstrom, Swarovski, Gucci, Tesla, etc.; however, nothing really compares to the Mall of America).
Nightlife: TIE (compare our East Carson Street or Cultural District to any thriving nightlife destination in the Twin Cities, such as Uptown Minneapolis, and you'll find them just about evenly-matched in terms of variety of offerings, crowds, liveliness, etc.)
Economy: TIE (both metro areas are home to a commanding number of Fortune 1000 companies relative to their populations and BOTH metro areas have very diversified economies that are resilient to economic downturns).
Cost of Living: Pittsburgh (I rent a 1-BR apartment for $700/month in a safe hip neighborhood within walking distance of Downtown. Can you say the same in MSP? Can you buy a livable home in a safe neighborhood in the urban core of MSP for <$100,000? You can here).
Young People: TIE (MSP has a higher "raw numbers" amount of young people, but the overall population is also much higher, so it isn't a fair comparison. A fairer comparison would be percentages, and the PERCENTAGE of young people in Pittsburgh is comparable to the PERCENTAGE of young people in Minneapolis/St. Paul).
Health and Runners: TIE (As recently as when I moved to Pittsburgh in 2010 I would have given the edge to MSP. I now feel as if BOTH are evenly-matched, though. The participation within and spectatorship of the Pittsburgh Marathon is just a step below that of the Boston and NYC Marathons, in my opinion. There's still a lot of obesity here, but that's prevalent in the older generations more than the younger ones these days).
Sports Stadiums: TIE (MSP has additional major-league teams, but it is also a much larger metropolitan area, so it's not fair to go by that. PNC Park (MLB), Heinz Field (NFL), CONSOL Energy Center (NHL), and Highmark Stadium (our one-step-below MLS team) are all modern venues that offer great views, concessions, and amenities. It's disingenuous to say one city's stadiums blows away the others', so this one out of all them SHOULD be a tie unless you're a biased homer).
Things to Do: TIE (I'm honestly not going to list everything, but both PGH and MSP punch well above their weight in terms of attractions, cultural venues, events, etc.)
Eye Candy: TIE (MSP and Pittsburgh have equally-striking skylines, in my opinion. St. Paul doesn't have a good skyline overall, but the architecture throughout almost the entire city is incredibly well-preserved. Do a Google Street View tour starting at the Basilica and then head west down Summit Avenue FOR MILES for a glimpse of what I'm talking about. Hundreds of the homes in the "Chain of Lakes" in SW Minneapolis are striking. Loring Park is an awesome urban oasis, and Uptown Minneapolis is chic, to say the least. Pittsburgh is no slouch, either. Frick Park would rival any urban park in MSP. I'd argue we utilize OUR riverfronts better overall than MSP utilizes its riverfront, although we don't have any lakes, let alone the awesome utilization of the shorelines of those lakes the way MSP does).
P.S. I also wish I knew why Shakeesha hated Pittsburgh so much. She down-votes it in any city-vs.-city comparison she can, even in ones that Pittsburgh SHOULD win.
I second SteelCityRising! I'm from Minneapolis and think it's an awesome city to live with a great quality of life due to a combination of great parks, strong, diverse economy and a wide range of cool neighborhoods to live in or check out. I also love visiting Pittsburgh, with its greater sense of history and interesting topography. I'm more impressed by the row homes and old commercial architecture of Pittsburgh, but Minneapolis offers the unique amenities of the lakes district with its outstanding biking/roller-blading/jogging/walking, plus great trails along rivers and Minnehaha Creek. I have a friend who grew up in PA, lived in Mpls for about 12 years, but now lives in Pittsburgh. One difference he noted was local government--he said that govt actually works in Minnesota (though lots of folks would disagree with him after this years polarized legislative on the state level). But he was thinking more of local govt. In PA, he reported there is more cronyism and less gets done. Anyway, both are great places in my book.
Honestly, it depends on how often you visit that other city, as well as the difference of cost-of-living. If you're spending $500/mo in housing costs for proximity to a city you visit 2-3 times a year, you aren't truly benefitting from that proximity.
The thing is if you live in Providence, you can wake up at 9:00 on a Saturday, eat breakfast, watch some dumb morning show, hop on the train, be in Boston at 11:15, go to an afternoon Red Sox game, have dinner, then go to a show, and be home by midnight.
People in Boston can go down to Providence, and go to Waterfire, RISD galleries, and eat on Federal Hill, then get back home at a decent hour.
This is because the cities are about 60 minutes apart.
However, NY-Pittsburgh is a vacation, being a 6+ hour drive
It is just absurd, people from the Twin Cities don't gloat about how close they are to Chicago, which is only about 6 hr 20 minutes from there.
P.S. I also wish I knew why Shakeesha hated Pittsburgh so much. She down-votes it in any city-vs.-city comparison she can, even in ones that Pittsburgh SHOULD win.
Don't worry about it - there's no rationality to it whatsoever. And what's lacking in rationality on the matter is even more so lacking in knowledge/intelligence. I rarely feel the need to point this out to people on the internet but there were such blatantly false facts and illogical arguments spewing from her fingers in the Indianapolis/Pitsburgh/Kansas City thread that I had to say something.
Don't worry about it - there's no rationality to it whatsoever. And what's lacking in rationality on the matter is even more so lacking in knowledge/intelligence. I rarely feel the need to point this out to people on the internet but there were such blatantly false facts and illogical arguments spewing from her fingers in the Indianapolis/Pitsburgh/Kansas City thread that I had to say something.
She and one other person here do tend to damage their credibility when they talk about Pittsburgh, no?
Well, first off, Pittsburgh is less than six hours from New York (I've done it), assuming you don't stop, which of course you will. But with an hour off the road, it's still less than seven hours.
While I agree that it's not really useful to trumpet Pittsburgh's proximity to New York, I also think there's an advantage in being able to drive to a city in a day. Flying is just more of a hassle than driving, and at least for a family, it's always going to be more expensive. A city that's a six-hour drive away isn't a day trip, but it could be a long weekend. If a flight is necessary, you'll want a bigger commitment. Nobody is driving from Minneapolis to New York for a long weekend.
It takes 5 1/2 hours to drive from Monroeville (I-76) to The Lincoln Tunnel. 8 hrs by horse?
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