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^ First, you must define the parameters for "Southerness". Even if it was determined that one city was more Southern than the other, it would be two totally different type of Southerns. For example, St. Louis' Southerness is unquestionable linked to its relationship to the Mississippi Delta and cities like New Orleans and Memphis (quintessential Mississippi Riverboat culture), where there are cultural ties between these cities that predate America itself and American definitions of what "Southern" is. On the other hand, Baltimore has much stronger ties to America's slave coast, and port cities like Charleston and Savannah, which were major slave ports like Baltimore.
They are pretty evenly matched as far as southern influence, though in different ways as goat314 pointed out above. I think one can find a good bit of southern culture in each of these borderline cities - and I'm talking positive attributed like the overabundance of charm/friendliness found in both, among other things.
^ First, you must define the parameters for "Southerness". Even if it was determined that one city was more Southern than the other, it would be two totally different type of Southerns. For example, St. Louis' Southerness is unquestionable linked to its relationship to the Mississippi Delta and cities like New Orleans and Memphis (quintessential Mississippi Riverboat culture), where there are cultural ties between these cities that predate America itself and American definitions of what "Southern" is. On the other hand, Baltimore has much stronger ties to America's slave coast, and port cities like Charleston and Savannah, which were major slave ports like Baltimore.
It was a major point of entry for immigrants, #2 behind Ellis Island. There was some slave trading going on in the Harbor tho. Most cities on the East Coast were points of entry for slaves including NYC and Boston.
I'd probably say St. Louis today especially factoring in proximity to very Southern locales-it's like 4 hours to Memphis and Mississippi border while 4 hours from Baltimore barely gets you out of Virginia-which is still Southern but seems to be changing somewhat along with North Carolina with so many transplants/retirees.
It was a major point of entry for immigrants, #2 behind Ellis Island. There was some slave trading going on in the Harbor tho.
It's pretty well documented that Baltimore was a large slave port, so there was more than "some" slave trading going on in the Harbor...most of the slave pens were along Pratt Street near the Harbor. I think it tapered off a lot toward the 1850s and the abolitionist movement, but Maryland was still a slave state up until 1864 and was not included in 1863's Emancipation Proclamation. Following the Revolution many Maryland slaveholders freed their slaves and by the time of the Civil War 49% of black residents were free, although in 1860 one in six families in Maryland still held slaves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ry_in_Maryland
I'd probably say St. Louis today especially factoring in proximity to very Southern locales-it's like 4 hours to Memphis and Mississippi border while 4 hours from Baltimore barely gets you out of Virginia-which is still Southern but seems to be changing somewhat along with North Carolina with so many transplants/retirees.
It's only a 5 hour drive (or less) from Baltimore to Raleigh...I have driven it a few times. It's about 4 hours or so to Lynchburg. Virginia is solidly southern. It may be diluted a little in NOVA but the state itself is southern - period. Is that really debatable? I guess it could be if you were afraid your city might be associated with the South in some small way. Some people can't tolerate that kind of thing. LOL!
Proximity has a lot to do with it, but a lot of it also depends on proximity to larger populations - and traditionally Baltimore was much closer to population centers in the South than St. Louis and Baltimore was actually considered part of the South at one time where St. Louis wasn't (that I know of). But I do think they are pretty equal in having a touch of southernness.
Last edited by JoeTarheel; 06-22-2016 at 08:18 PM..
It was a major point of entry for immigrants, #2 behind Ellis Island. There was some slave trading going on in the Harbor tho. Most cities on the East Coast were points of entry for slaves including NYC and Boston.
True. Of course many people got on a B&O train when they arrived in Baltimore. Baltimore also became pretty white as the 1800s progressed--by 1860 it (13%) was only as white as New Orleans (14%). That was the year the black share of Baltimore bottomed out, declining from more than ⅓ in the early 1800s.
NYC and Boston were very white until the 20th century.
It's pretty well documented that Baltimore was a large slave port, so there was more than "some" slave trading going on in the Harbor...most of the slave pens were along Pratt Street near the Harbor. I think it tapered off a lot toward the 1850s and the abolitionist movement, but Maryland was still a slave state up until 1864 and was not included in 1863's Emancipation Proclamation. Following the Revolution many Maryland slaveholders freed their slaves and by the time of the Civil War 49% of black residents were free, although in 1860 one in six families in Maryland still held slaves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ry_in_Maryland
Maryland's tobacco industry declined in the 1800s because of exhausted soils. Many slaveholders found it no longer profitable to open slaves, and that also contributed to the decreasing slave population. In the Baltimore area, the counties bordering Pennsylvania had fewer people in bondage for obvious reasons, though in 1860:
Harford County (borders PA) was 23% black, 33% of blacks were enslaved
Anne Arundel Co. was 51% black, 60 percent of them were enslaved
Howard Co. was 32% black, 67% of them were enslaved
Maryland's tobacco industry declined in the 1800s because of exhausted soils. Many slaveholders found it no longer profitable to open slaves, and that also contributed to the decreasing slave population. In the Baltimore area, the counties bordering Pennsylvania had fewer people in bondage for obvious reasons, though
Harford County was 23% black, 33% of blacks were enslaved
Anne Arundel Co. was 51% black, 60 percent of them were enslaved
Howard Co. was 32% black, 67% of them were enslaved
Very true...many slaveholders freed their slaves well before the Civil War. But Baltimore was still a major port of entry for slaves up until 1860. Most were sold to slave owners in large slave states - not to people in MD.
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I think one can find a good bit of southern culture in each of these borderline cities - and I'm talking positive attributed like the overabundance of charm/friendliness found in both, among other things.
